Historical Beer: Kentucky Common "Kiss Yer Cousin" Rye Kentucky Common Ale

[PatrickGoss]

Here in the UK it is difficult to get flaked rye. Can get crushed rye in bulk. Will there be a difference in taste or amount used in recipe? If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks!

I use malted rye all the time. Don't know if it makes the same flavor as flaked, but it make great flavor.

 

[rlemkin]

Here in the UK it is difficult to get flaked rye. Can get crushed rye in bulk. Will there be a difference in taste or amount used in recipe? If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks!

Do you have any health food stores nearby? First one I walked into in Edinburgh had bags of flaked rye.

 

[Setesh]

This recipe is in my normal rotation, and I've tried different yeasts so I thought I would give my opinion on the best . I've tried:

001 / US-05 - great
1028 - fantastic
S-04 - didn't care for it, too much yeast influence
S-23 at 66F - interesting and probably my second favorite to the 1028

My favorite by far is the 1028. It is fantastic. It finishes on the dry side, but that just increases the already terrific drink-ability of this beer. I think the mineral profile of the 1028 goes really good with the rye bite. This has become my go to recipe for events. I make a cream ale like Cream of Three Crops and this with signs that say:

Cream ale - Like Budweiser? This one's is for you!
Kiss Yer Cousin - Ready for more flavor? Give this a try!

 

[Bacon488]

I am about 12 oz into my first pint pour of my Kentucky Common. What a delicious beer! Thanks for sharing your recipe, Revvy. Spicy, sweet, smooth, quaffable... I can see devoting a long session of hanging out with friends sipping this one. And I can see myself making it again and again.

I also see myself fermenting this same wort with saison yeast to see what comes of it. I think it would be stellar, if certainly not in line with any established style! Kentucky Farmhouse, coming soon to a homebrew keg near you. Or me at least. Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Revvy]

Got into a discussion about this style at my favorite brewpub last night and while thinking about it this morning I did some googling. Turns out there's been some more research into this style in the last few years, so I wanted to add them to the original post, but I guess it can no longer be edited.

The BJCP had done an article on this style, looks like it's backed up some of what I discovered in my readings. The Bjcp backs up my assertion that the style wasn't intentionally soured.

There's a Wikipedia article on it. I don't remember if I used this for my explanation of the style.

Here's an article on a commercial brewery doing one, sounds a lot like my recipe, but it seems like he's bought into the sourness "myth."

Cool stuff.

 

[EcuPirate07]

Rev, do you still stand by the method of making it as a steam beer like in your original post or keeping it as an ale? Been hearing about this style a couple of times on brad smiths podcast and looked into it about a month ago and after listening to his last ep decided to pull the trigger.

 

[damlamb]

I have a steam beer version of this going. It will probably hit the bottles in a week or so. I will report back in a month and let everybody know the results. I have high hopes having done the ale version 3 times already.

 

[EcuPirate07]

From my understanding of this style is, it's a fast fermenter, like within a week. Anyone hold to this? Without looking from what I remember rev's recipe suggest 30 days

 

[damlamb]

From my understanding of this style is, it's a fast fermenter, like within a week. Anyone hold to this? Without looking from what I remember rev's recipe suggest 30 days

When I have used ale yeast Ive left it for 3 weeks in primary than bottled. It was done in a week but it clears up better if you leave it the full 3 weeks. this beer stays pretty cloudy though in my experience.

 

[damlamb]

I would definatly advocate the use of lager yeast at around 64f. I have made the ale version a few times and it comes out much more clean and lets the rye flavour come through better. Dropped crystal clear also. I used saflager 23 and a 2L starter.

 

[AkTom]

This is a good beer. Other than Graff ( a cider with a few grains and hops ) this will will be my first beer rebrew. Good stuff here.

 

[izzie]

I did a 10 gallon batch, used rye malt. WLP070 Bourbon yeast in a 2 step starter. Almost done at .013, samples taste great.

 

[EcuPirate07]

So I was going to brew this tonight. Is there any indications on the water chemistry? Since its a little dark are we ok with tap water or should I us my RO water and build this up?

 

[z-bob]

At only 2 oz would there be any difference using roasted barley instead of Black Patent malt? I have a few ounces of 500L roasted barley already. I assume it's mainly for color.

 

[markusreadus]

Hi Chaps.

Planning to brew this tomorrow. LHBS doesn't stock flaked maize. They suggested using instant polenta - I wasted an hour in two different massive supermarkets and couldn't find instant polenta anywhere.

Maize is corn. So could I use corn flour in my mash? I can recirculate wort when mashing, so would the flour end up stuck in the rest of the grains - I don't want beer soup?

The alternative is the cook the polenta and add that.

Thoughts anyone? I brew tomorrow...

 

[jakeasaur]

I have heard of people using corn meal in place of flaked maze

 

[mathin]

I would think corn flour would gum things up. Corn meal would be less likely to. Might be a good idea to add some rice hulls just in case.

 

[z-bob]

How about corn tortilla mix. (Masa) It's already cooked, so it shouldn't need a cereal mash. And it's really cheap, in 4 or 5 pounds bags. I think it's ground a little coarser than most flour, but finer than cornmeal.

 

[PatrickGoss]

Just use instant grits. Perfect corn sub. Remember, instant grits, not five minute grits.

 

[Revvy]

Anything made of corn other than flaked maize CAN be used, BUT in order to do it you have to do a cereal mash to render it fermentable... The "flaking" of the maize achieves the same thing... you CAN use unsugared cornflakes or tortilla chips (baked is preferable but I've used "fried" as well in cream ales, in the mash tun the other grain absorbs the grease from the chips) in the mash tun just like flaked maize without doing a cereal mash.

I THINK, that instant polenta doesn't require it either, I think the "instant" processing pre-gelatinizes it as well, but don't quote me on that. I know someone used popped popcorn for a cream ale as well on here years ago, but I can't recall if he did a cereal mash or if popping rendered it usable as well.

Anything else, cram corn, non instant grits, cornflower, ground popcorn kernals, non instant cornmeal can all be used, and has been, but you need to do the cereal mash first....


Cereal mashing is not hard to do, but it requires an extra step... BYO has a great article.

I just brewed this on Saturday, using Saflager again and making this a steam beer.

 

[PatrickGoss]

Anything made of corn other than flaked maize CAN be used, BUT in order to do it you have to do a cereal mash to render it fermentable... The "flaking" of the maize achieves the same thing... you CAN use unsugared cornflakes or tortilla chips (baked is preferable but I've used "fried" as well in cream ales, in the mash tun the other grain absorbs the grease from the chips) in the mash tun just like flaked maize without doing a cereal mash.

I THINK, that instant polenta doesn't require it either, I think the "instant" processing pre-gelatinizes it as well, but don't quote me on that. I know someone used popped popcorn for a cream ale as well on here years ago, but I can't recall if he did a cereal mash or if popping rendered it usable as well.

Anything else, cram corn, non instant grits, cornflower, ground popcorn kernals, non instant cornmeal can all be used, and has been, but you need to do the cereal mash first....


Cereal mashing is not hard to do, but it requires an extra step... BYO has a great article.

I just brewed this on Saturday, using Saflager again and making this a steam beer.

Based on reading from here, instant grits are pre gelatinized which is why I used them on a few beers. I have done a couple half corn recipes with them and got the gravity readings I was after on both sides of fermentation so I am going to say they work. I have never done comparison batches with anything to know about flavor difference, but as far as instant grits working by just throwing them in the mash.... They work just like flaked maize pound for pound on the numbers. They honestly are not any cheaper though... Just available at the grocery store!

 

[Revvy]

Based on reading from here, instant grits are pre gelatinized which is why I used them on a few beers. I have done a couple half corn recipes with them and got the gravity readings I was after on both sides of fermentation so I am going to say they work. I have never done comparison batches with anything to know about flavor difference, but as far as instant grits working by just throwing them in the mash.... They work just like flaked maize pound for pound on the numbers. They honestly are not any cheaper though... Just available at the grocery store!

Yeah, thanks. I actually made shrimp and grits the other night with instant polenta (I know) imported from Poland (I shop at a great Polish market in my neighborhood) and they came together in 3 minutes and I totally realized I "gelatinous" they were.

Think I might do something with them over the holidays.

 

[DemonsRun]

Revvy, this looks great. Recently I have been brewing a slightly hoppy cream ale using Fantasia and Ella hops then fermenting at 66 with WPL 080 (Ale and Lager Blend). I'll definitely give it a go swapping out some 2-row for rye, c120, and black patent.

 

[z-bob]

I haven't brewed this yet, but I keep coming back to it because

1. I'm trying to adjust my brewing to use the local water (very high carbonate) with no treatment other than dechlorinating -- instead of running to the store to buy RO water all the time.
2. I need to start brewing lighter beers; I don't need all the calories from pint after pint of 6% ABV brews. And I don't really want to drink stouts and porters in the summer.

From what I've read on this style, the whole point of the dark crystal and black malts was to deal with the their hard water. Just like me.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[damlamb]

Well almost a year ago now I brewed this as my first experimental sour beer after reading American Sour Beers. I followed the recipe exactly but I pitched WLP670 American farmhouse blend with the Safale us05 in the primary. One month in racked to secondary with a handful of Jack Daniels oak barrel chips. Aged for 9 months and bottle conditioned for a further 2 months. Finished at 1.009. All the hop bitterness has faded but the dryness brought out the bitter/slightly harsh flavours in the roasted malts. Has a bit of funk at first than you start tasting the oak and the JD. The finish is where you get the dry bitter flavour I referred to. Overall a very drinkable beer and was well worth the wait. I will be aging some bottles to try again this time next year. I was really hoping for a sour beer but its a prettly clean beer with a hint of funk. Next batch I try will be a sour mash and ferment with us05.

View attachment 1450741509848.jpg

 

[Arrheinous]

In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.

 

[z-bob]

In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.

I think I read somewhere in the thread that the picture is misleading. (poor lighting, poor camera, something like that)

 

[PatrickGoss]

In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.

Mine had a very dark color but light came through it really well... Aesthetically it was likely the coolest looking brew I have made. I need a keg of this brew again.... And again.

 

[Arrheinous]

Mine had a very dark color but light came through it really well... Aesthetically it was likely the coolest looking brew I have made. I need a keg of this brew again.... And again.

I ended up going with 4oz of blackprinz that I had on hand. According to Beersmith that puts it at 16 SRM and it's sort of a dark copper color. Blackprinz is still 500L but maybe the black patent adds a little something extra to the hue.

Pretty much subbed out all the malts for Euro malts (Vienna, malted rye, Special B) too since I wasn't super prepared to brew it up. Going to use WLP005 at 60F.

 

[markusreadus]

My attempt at this has now carbonated. I found some suspicious looking white floating matter in the fermenter before racking to bottle. I tried to leave that behind, but I feared an infection.

Taste has been interesting. It's definitely not sour, so if it is infected I can't detect it right now. I shared a bottle at the weekend, and both of us detected a fair bit of liquorish, which was unexpected. It wasn't unpleasant, but I would have preferred it without. I wondered if this was the result of too hot fermentation.

Opened another bottle last night, no liquorish at all. It was very enjoyable.

@damlamb, I'm intrigued by the notion of sour-mashing this. Please let us know how that goes.

When I tried to make this the LHBS didn't stock half the ingredients I needed, and I ended up using polenta in place of maize. Won't ever be trying that again, what a mess. Seriously stuck sparge too.