Blue beer: lets beat this dead horse

[NinjaBear]

Ingredients I was using on this attempt.

I did a long boil of just the cabbage to extract as much of the color as possible. (I was still using a five gallon canning pot back then because I was new, using what I had, and hadn’t upgraded to a proper 7 gallon stainless steel pot yet.

The wort was purple in the fermenter...
(Which I don’t seem to have a picture of)
but some of the splatter from the boil was hopeful.

After about a week fermenting, it became this Redish pink color.

When trying some different types of basic ingredients to add to raise the pH. (I believe one was baking soda and the other was a calcium supplement.)

But I didn’t have the lab controls to get a precise ratio and was only operating on sight/color and not pH measuring.

And trying to do the same with the beer I eventually made it all un drinkable.

 

[NinjaBear]

Judging on the jar, this one looked like a one gallon beer.

This wasn’t my last attempt. I tried a five gallon batch after that thinking less malt and more corn sugars would give it a lighter body that’s easier to fight the natural beer colors.

Ended up with a pink beer that I told everyone was Fairy beer. But it had almost no flavor and no one actually liked it.

 

[passedpawn]

This thread is awesome!



I made some Clitoria tea this morning with 5 flowers. As expected, dark blue. Added some lemon juice and it turned violet. Taste is much like a light herbal tea flavor - nothing overpowering (think chamomile). I have a pH meter, so if anybody wants me to do an experiment or something, let me know. I've got a low-ABV light pale ale on tap (homebrew) that I could test with.

I'm going to make a cheese (brie) with it today. Cheese cultures lower the pH, so I expect the cheese to turn pink/purple. Brie is a bloomy rind cheese, where a thin layer of mold grows on the outside. So, the outside of the cheese should be white, with the color interior. Also gonna make blue rice and top with carrot peas (that I make with sodium alginate / spherification). Should be... weird.

 

[Grod1]

post pics of blue dinner

 

[passedpawn]

post pics of blue dinner

Check it.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-did-i-cook-this-weekend.435844/page-325#post-8194578

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I made some Clitoria tea this morning with 5 flowers. As expected, dark blue. Added some lemon juice and it turned violet. Taste is much like a light herbal tea flavor - nothing overpowering (think chamomile). I have a pH meter, so if anybody wants me to do an experiment or something, let me know. I've got a low-ABV light pale ale on tap (homebrew) that I could test with.

If I was in your position, I'd first confirm that a tea of just Clitoria and water made the transition at pH4, with fairly big additions of lemon juice/vinegar to start with. Then I'd investigate whether the transition happened over a fairly narrow range of pH's or whether it went suddenly, using small additions of acid/base. Then I'd see whether the pH was the same in beer - there may be other factors in beer that mess with the transition and "pull" it to a different pH.

If the magic pH is around 4 then that could get interesting as a way of detecting whether your beer was in condition or had started to turn to vinegar!

 

[RedIvan16]

So what I'm surmising from this thread that a true, blue beer is extremely difficult to pull off. The pH in the beer won't allow the blue color to survive like it would with a mead for instance. Blue corn is out as well.

Purple corn might be a good addition to a lager or something if one wants a different color beer. Would you do a cereal mash prior to a proper mashing or just throw it into the mash with the other grains?

 

[passedpawn]

If I was in your position, I'd first confirm that a tea of just Clitoria and water made the transition at pH4, with fairly big additions of lemon juice/vinegar to start with. Then I'd investigate whether the transition happened over a fairly narrow range of pH's or whether it went suddenly, using small additions of acid/base. Then I'd see whether the pH was the same in beer - there may be other factors in beer that mess with the transition and "pull" it to a different pH.

If the magic pH is around 4 then that could get interesting as a way of detecting whether your beer was in condition or had started to turn to vinegar!

I did that test (with lemon juice) but didn't measure pH. I'll probably redo and measure pH one of these nights.

 

[Grod1]

It would be cool to see if (dry)hops alone will change the acid enough to change the color. I should have my clitoria in a few days and will do some experiments before using them in a beer.
but as far as the beer goes im going to brew this recipe
35.5% white wheat
23.5% rice syrup solids
23.5% pilsen liquid malt extract
17.5% cane sugar
1/2 cucumber per 5 gallons /as much lemon grass as i can cut( maybe 4-8oz) both these are alkaline and will be split between flame out/primary.
Calcium Chloride, up to 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons before the boil to help the color of the clit.
i cant to a pilsner because i will have to many off flavors and its going to be to alkaline for a saison. i obviously cant sour it.
what yeast should i use?
also just to throw it out there as an idea ... Lactose!? maybe who knows but that could potentially keep something basic. maybe i should head the nitro cream rout. what do you guys think.

 

[NinjaBear]

Nitro would prevent carbonic acid from generating.

 

[Grod1]

if i go the nitro rout i can add a decent amount of corn to the recipe lowering the srm even further. What alkaline adjuncts would work well in a cream ale?

 

[Grod1]

fekin A ... blue oyster stout... or blue oyster kolsch...

 

[NinjaBear]

I saw that ouster’s were alkaline before… never figured out how to use them post fermentation to push the pH up.

 

[SteveH43055]

I have brewed with the blue pea flower myself, my goal however was to create a green beer by playing off the existing yellow. It was green, but more of a blue-green, reminiscent of water in a port a John lol

 

[NinjaBear]

It occurred to me after my last post that Butterfly Pea Flowers themselves can be used as an alkalizing agent in secondary if it’s more in the red zone.

This thread has really gotten me back to wanting to try and make this happen.

 

[NinjaBear]

I have brewed with the blue pea flower myself, my goal however was to create a green beer by playing off the existing yellow. It was green, but more of a blue-green, reminiscent of water in a port a John lol

Got any pictures?

 

[Grod1]

just got my flowers. time to start some things.

 

[passedpawn]

just got my flowers. time to start some things.

Try putting about 30 flowers in a small pan, get the color, strain them out, then make spaghetti in that water. Pretty cool. Same for rice.

 

[cegan09]

I've used the peaflower tea in cocktails. The cup I brewed of the straight tea for my girlfriend to try smelled like straight limabeans/brocolli. Taste wasn't a ton better. It works well in Gin cocktails though.

I'd be curious to see how it works in other people's beer, but i'm not convinced i need weird colored beer in my life.

 

[NinjaBear]

just got my flowers. time to start some things.

Please come back with pictures.

I won’t be able to start until my brew space warms up to at least lager temperatures.

 

[Grod1]

ill post pics when i get to it, so far i have put some in a few beers with different ph levels almost everything looked like bath water grayish. Nothing turned green tho.
2m ill put some lactose into a jar of water and one flower and see how that effects it.I will also nitro some butterfly pea tea and see how tahgt effects it.

 

[Grod1]

I am making working on this recipe now and i keep going back and forth between the idea of using Spirulina powder (blue-green algae).
this page here has super expensive spirulina "proprietary extract" that turns water a very impressive blue. but all other pictures on the web look like nasty green sludge.
a co worker of mine mentioned when he cookes purple or rainbow carrots the water is a dark color so now depending on availability i think i might add some to the mash. Not enough for flavor but hopefully to help steer away from a yellow color.
based off the 50 flowers per a gallon in the mead pic above i estimated that to be about 4 grams of flowers so for 35 gallons i will use 140 grams of flowers.
I added lactose so some clitora pea tea and it didnt not change anything.good.


Psilly rabbit's cream ale
Method: Partial Mash
Style: (Nitro) Cream Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 35 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 37 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.050 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 68% (brew house)

OG:1.052/FG:1.020-ABV4.2%
IBU 13.4SRM 3.2

22 lb - Pale 2-Row 37.9%
7 lb Flaked Corn 12.1%
6 lb DME Extra Light 10.3%
4 lbWhite Wheat 6.9%
3 lb Rice Syrup Solids 5.2%
2 lb Flaked Wheat 3.4%
1 lb - Aromatic Malt 1.7%
3 lb Cane Sugar 5.2%
10 lb Lactose 17.2%
58 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Hallertau Pellet 3.8 Boil 60 min 2.07
1 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Boil 50 min 5.18
1 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Boil 20 min 3.3
1 oz East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.1 Boil 15 min 1.38
1 oz Hallertau Pellet 3.8 Boil 5 min 0.41
1 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Boil 5 min 1.09

Other Ingredients
Amount Name Type Use Time
2 lb carrots color Mash 8 min.
70 g butterfly pea flower Herb Boil 5 min.
70 g butterfly pea flower Herb primary
70 g calcium carbonate Water Agt Boil 5 min.

 

[NinjaBear]

You make 35 gallons at a time? Do you run a brewery?

 

[Grod1]

no i just help one run smoothly( i dont brew) i am a cellar man at one where i am aloud to use what ever i want.I brew with 2 friends so its just easier/more worth it to get at least 10 gallons each,each run.
i dont have to pay for grain/hops either so its a bit easier for me to justify spending a bit of money on adjunts.

 

[NinjaBear]

Damn…

 

[Grod1]

i brewed today.Its BLUE!! i went with a Carrot cake cream ale. Psillys rabbits cream ale to be precise.
After realizing the flowers had a slight earthy flavor i decided that(rainbow) carrots would compliment that flavor along with being a alkaline root vegie that should help keep my ph high helping the blue stay blue.
floweres were added continuously from 2 mins to flame out and then wort was circulated past them for 5 mins
there was a quick second there that the beer tuned a deep algae green and my stomach turned as i though to my self" hey St. Patricks day is around the corner"
but the brilliant blue color over powered and i was able to breath.

i keep trying to post pics but it wont let me upload them since they are to big.
it wont let me buy a supporter account either to upload bigger pictures unless i apply to paypal.
i will resize some images. This is wort re-circulating threw the plate chiller back into the hop screen with 150 grams of butterfly pea flowers we did that for 5 mins.
The two jars are test jars of boiled water. Left is a pea flower in water,Right is a pea flowers a blended baby carrot and a melted down marshmallow.
i think the amount of flower i used was way overkill. It was also not used to its best potential. the hop screen was leaking pure blue dye after the beer was collected. Can i post a video?
if for what ever reason the blue fades i saved 25 grams for primary/aging

this is the final brewed recipie
HOME BREW RECIPE:
Psilly rabbit's cream ale

Partial Mash/ Cream Ale /60 min boil/
Batch Size: 35 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 37 gallons Boil Gravity: 1.046
Efficiency: 68% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 4.17%
IBU (tinseth): 17.03
SRM (morey): 2.92

FERMENTABLES:
22 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (40.4%)
7 lb - Flaked Corn (12.8%)
6 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Extra Light (11%)
4 lb - American - White Wheat (7.3%)
3 lb - Rice Syrup Solids (5.5%)
2 lb - Flaked Wheat (3.7%)
0.5 lb - American - Aromatic Malt (0.9%)
3 lb - Cane Sugar (5.5%)
7 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) (12.8%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.7, Use: Boil for 60 min
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Boil for 50 min
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.6, Use: Boil for 20 min
1 oz - Northern Brewer, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.8, Use: Boil for 15 min
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6, Use: Boil for 5 min
50 g - Centennial, Type: Lupulin Pellet, AA: 9.6, Use: Boil for 5 min

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 lb - baby rainbow carrots, Type: Flavor, Use: Mash
150 g - butterfly pea flower, Time: 2 min, Type: Herb, Use: Boil
20 oz - marshmellow, Time: 10 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil
1 tsp - yeast ex, Time: 10 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001

 

[Grod1]

no one huh? i got all excited fer no reason.

 

[TwistedGray]

This is exciting! I just gave away a bunch of pea tea leaves that we brought back from Thailand, doh!

 

[NickTheGreat]

I'm excited for you. It'll be curious to see what it looks like when it's done fermenting and carbonated up!

 

[TwistedGray]

I'm excited for you. It'll be curious to see what it looks like when it's done fermenting and carbonated up!

Wondering how the fermentation process goes, too.