Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

[lump42]

Does anyone have any comparison between Accuflex ultra 235 and Kegland EVA barrier lines? The description of these are pretty similar. If I recall, the sizing might be different. I'm looking to finally build out my keeper and move away from my picnic taps.

 

[day_trippr]

This is the very first time I've ever seen this line mentioned on HBT.

It sounds good, but I get bothered by proprietary plastics that have no readily available data to support various claims (looking at you, EJ Beverage). Otherwise, one thing I noticed is the ID: at 5/32" ID the optimal line length for ~11 psi pressure (in the 4' range) might actually be too short to make it from keg to shank! I wonder if the manufacturer has larger bore lines...

Cheers!

 

[lump42]

That's a good point about proprietary plastics..hmm

EVA barrier has two sizes, 4mm (5/32") and 5mm (13/64"). Larger diameter might be used for longer runs.

 

[day_trippr]

The 5mm would be the ticket for most installations, per http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator 11 psi would balance at ~ 13.5 feet of line, not bad at all...

Cheers!

 

[Keith81]

The EVA line is what comes with the Kegland kegerators from MoreBeer. Mine came with about 5.5' per line of the 4 mm for the beer line and the 5 mm for gas lines. I get good pours with 12 psi @ 38 F. If there is oxygen permeation through the line I can't tell, a keg usually lasts about 6-8 weeks for me. I do not recommend the 4 mm lines if you have to fit them on a barb though. Took me about an hour of cursing per barb to fit it over the 1/4" barbs on the shanks due to the smaller ID and thick walls. The 5 mm was much easier to work with.

 

[IslandLizard]

I do not recommend the 4 mm lines if you have to fit them on a barb though. Took me about an hour of cursing per barb to fit it over the 1/4" barbs on the shanks due to the smaller ID and thick walls. The 5 mm was much easier to work with.

Isn't that line, like the Bev-Seal Ultra 235, meant to be used with John Guest push-fit adapters? The Bev-Seal 235 line is 0.2" (5.08 mm) ID, 5/16" OD. It's almost impossible to stretch that over 1/4" barb, partially due to the PET (inner) liner that really doesn't want to stretch. I'm surprised you could stretch 4mm ID line over a 1/4" (6.25 mm) barb...

What is the OD on the 5 mm ID EVA line?

 

[Keith81]

The OD is 8 mm for both the 4 mm and 5 mm ID. The shanks have a 90 barb on that kegerator also at the time I hadn't heard about John Guest fittings and MoreBeer hadn't started carrying the Duotight fittings yet so I also ended up using 1/4" MFL fittings on the keg end also, it was a real pain. I definitely recommend the push on fittings whenever possible.

 

[IslandLizard]

The OD is 8 mm for both the 4 mm and 5 mm ID. The shanks have a 90 barb on that kegerator also at the time I hadn't heard about John Guest fittings and MoreBeer hadn't started carrying the Duotight fittings yet so I also ended up using 1/4" MFL fittings on the keg end also, it was a real pain. I definitely recommend the push on fittings whenever possible.

Sorry I missed the essential kegerator/tower setup before. There is no direct connector/adapter for those type of lines to 90° barbed shanks, that would really help. If it were me I'd experiment with a really short piece of (vinyl) hose, just enough that clamps well over the barb and fits inside a push-fit adapter. Then continue with 235 line from there on.

I have five 19' 235 lines in my upright keezer and sometime ago was looking at using narrower lines to reduce line length to half or less. But pouring time will then go up at the same time, so there is that. Tygon seemed like a good alternative, not sure how it fares with beer though. Plus the line needs to fit inside the push-fits and stay there.

 

[JustusLiebig]

I like that they say that the tubing is interchangeable with John Guest and Duofit
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/532-EVABarrier-Beer-Tubing-39-foot-roll-P4680.aspx

 

[day_trippr]

Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!

 

[Keith81]

I no longer have mine coiled but when I did the coil fit within the rubber handles of my corny kegs, about 7" diameter. You may be able to go a little smaller if necessary.

 

[lump42]

Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!

Just looking at the fittings on Williams and noticed a 8mm to 6.5mm adapter. In the product description, it mentions the adapter will work with future products like a kegland tower shank and their pluto gun. Might be an option even if people have the Ultra 235.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Duotight-65mm-to-8mm-Reducer-P4756.aspx

Edit: Found the tower shank on their website. It's just not available in the states yet. https://www.kegland.com.au/intertap-duotight-compatible-ss-short-shank.html

 

[Keith81]

I just looked at the current barbed tower shank on MoreBeer and someone asked if they were Duotight compatible. The response was no but the Duotight compatible shanks will be in stock soon. The question is dated July 25, 2019 so hopefully "soon" actually means soon.

 

[h22lude]

Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!

I know this thread is a month old. Was searching for EVABarrier and saw this post. I have the Bevseal tubing and like it besides the stiffness and length needed. I just bought EVABarrier for my new keezer. Will be using it this weekend.

Anyway, to make a 90° bend from the shank you would use the shank push connect with this 90° elbow
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube

 

[MikeCo]

I know this thread is a month old. Was searching for EVABarrier and saw this post. I have the Bevseal tubing and like it besides the stiffness and length needed. I just bought EVABarrier for my new keezer. Will be using it this weekend.

Anyway, to make a 90° bend from the shank you would use the shank push connect with this 90° elbow
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube

I'm also considering EVABarrier tubing and fittings. Are you using the 4mm or 5mm ID tubing? Would like to know how it works out for you.

 

[Robert65]

I just switched everything (gas and liquid) to the 4mm ID EVA barrier tubing and it's working great. Very flexible, and offers a lot of restriction, so very short runs on the beer line. A mere fraction of the length even of old fashioned 3/16 in vinyl, let alone Bev Seal.

 

[MikeCo]

Thanks for the update, Rob. Were you using vinyl before? Any noticeable improvement in flavor when the beer has been sitting in the line for a while?

 

[Robert65]

I was using all Bevlex vinyl. I just tapped my Fest Friday night, first batch on the new lines. For scientific purposes, I just had to pour one, and it tastes as fresh as the last one Friday without dumping the first few ounces like I used to. Not a lot of experience yet, obviously. What I do know is I definitely used to get very detectable oxidation with the vinyl even over a short time, and since I've progressively moved to low oxygen brewing this was a logical step. Should be no chance of oxygen diffusing in anywhere.

 

[h22lude]

I'm also considering EVABarrier tubing and fittings. Are you using the 4mm or 5mm ID tubing? Would like to know how it works out for you.

I just used the new lines yesterday. I have the 4mm. To determine line length I use length = (pressure - (height x .5) -1) / resistance. Using 11psi, I get almost 5ft of line. This was perfect. Pouring into a pint glass, I was getting between 8 and 9 seconds. I didn't have any issues with Bevseal line itself. What I didn't like was not knowing the resistance. Line length was really just a guess. I saw anywhere from 50% to 100% more than vinyl. I don't feel like experimenting with line length. I want to get a really good calculation and make very small adjustments if needed.

The EVA line is extremely easy to work with. It is really the best of both worlds. It is almost as flexible as vinyl at room temp and uses push connectors like Bevseal. It is super cheap too. I think I paid $14 for 39ft. That will just cover my 8 taps with no leftover. Can't beat that.

Bevseal is a good line but I'd recommend EVA over Bevseal.

 

[lump42]

It appears that the doutight tower shanks are now available at Williams. So now there's a john guest/ doutight option for towers.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Intertap-DuoTight-Tower-Shank-P4815.aspx

 

[Bobby_M]

I was demoing the EVA on my kegerator for a while and just jumped our bev line product over to it. The 4mm core doesn't seem like a big jump but I was able to reduce my 12ft Bevseal length down to 7ft on the EVA. Since it only comes 39ft to a roll, I decided to split that up to 7.8ft lengths to avoid waste and it's close enough to 7ft to call it good.

 

[day_trippr]

Hey Bobby, did you do empirical testing wrt pour quality/flow rate to come up with the 7.something feet?
Also are you carrying the most useful PTC fittings like you do for the Ultra 235?

I have to say after doing some research on EVOH (the "barrier" material) - and being about to recondition my five year old keezer interior - I'm very interested in this EVA tubing. But that ID has me wondering if it'd work ok.

4mm = 0.1575 inches. Doesn't seem like much of a change from the typical 3/16" (.1875") ID but using Mike Solty's calculator 4mm at 12 psi with the 3 foot lift for my towered keezer results in just over 4 feet of line for a 10 second pour. 4 feet is at least a couple of feet too short to get from my further keg to its faucet, but 7 feet might work (I'll have to check it)...

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

@day_trippr,

They also make a 5mm ID EVA barrier tubing with the same 8mm OD to use the same fittings. I haven't plugged that into the calculator, but maybe that (also seemingly small) difference is enough to get you the length you need? For items Bobby might not have, the full line of tubing and Duotight fittings are being sold in the US by William's. The latest addition is a push fit tower shank. (MoreBeer has a fairly extensive selection too I believe.)

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

Thanks for the 5mm ID heads up - would you believe that 1 millimeter brings my configuration to 12 feet?
So that'd be eminently doable, but if Bobby likes his pours with 7.8 feet of 4mm I'd lean that direction if I can make that fit with my flow meters and such.

What's the bend radius for this stuff - and is there a 90° PTC solution to the back of a t-tower shank for this tubing? It takes a shank fitting plus a 90° insert in the Ultra 235 world using JG fittings, are there similar parts for the Duotight?

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

The 4mm will easily coil up with a 2 1/2 in radius, I've never handled the 5mm, but I imagine since it's the same OD it would be about the same. Here's the shank they just started carrying, I don't know your exact configuration but maybe this would work. https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Intertap-DuoTight-Tower-Shank-P4815.aspx

 

[day_trippr]

I don't want to replace my six faucet shanks. I'd be looking for a 5/8" BSP fitting to thread onto the standard 7/8"-14 shank threads (sounds whack but that's how that rolls) then get from there to the tubing OD.

But that tight bend radius would obviate the need for the 90° fitting - my t-box has enough space to make that work - so that's another win over Ultra 235 for my configuration...

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

I don't want to replace my six faucet shanks. I'd be looking for a 5/8" BSP fitting to thread onto the standard 7/8"-14 shank threads (sounds whack but that's how that rolls) then get from there to the tubing OD.

But that tight bend radius would obviate the need for the 90° fitting - my t-box has enough space to make that work - so that's another win over Ultra 235 for my configuration...

Cheers!

Well then there's this if you are just replacing the tail piece and nut on a standard shank:

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx

And here is a quick demo of how tight a 90° you could get with it, don't know how much room you have in that tower.

 

[Robert65]

Notice the hook in that pic next to the CO2 bottle. Used to have lots of coiled up vinyl tubing hung on it. No such mess in the keezer with EVA!

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, there you go - that's the shank end fitting I'd be looking for given the bend radius.
Is that a JG or a Duotight?

Then there are the flow meter ends, which are 3/8" BSP. And finally the 1/4" MFL threads on the QDs. I have found Duotight fittings for the latter, but so far not the 3/8" BSP female...

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

That's Duotight. I've gotten all my "newfangled" stuff from William's. Haven't had to look elsewhere for what I needed so I don't really know what else might be available.

Prost!