A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[NanoMan]

Just a quick update. 70 - 80 batches later and using the Milwaukee pH meter from MoreBeer, the beers are turning out truly exceptional, the WaterCalc sheets have been very accurate in predicting mash pH, slightly better with paler beers, all pH values gravities and efficiencies hitting targets. At that sweet spot between recipe and process.

Looking forward to the Water book....

Cheers!


NanoMan

 

[Rivenin]

So, it would take me awhile to get through all 70+ pages of this, but i read a bit into it, but i'm just making sure... the following that AJ put up, the further you go down, you just add it to the baseline, correct?

lets see if i'm getting this right.
-------------------------------
Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.
---------------------

So this is for each 5 gallons, so lets say for example that my mash and sparge water = 10 gallons to get my 7 or so pre-boil gallons, i would just double up on the numbers, right?

As for the additions,
if i'm going for an IPA on this scale (burton), would be the following.

Baseline, 1tsp calcium chloride and 2% sauermalz... since the numbers aren't there, i'm guessing you are referring to the "doubling" as doubling from what the brittish beers are at? (thats the only reference i see to gypsum)

Making sure i get this.... my brain is about ready to explode as i've been reading all day on salt additions; this just simplified it, and i i think i'm over thinking everything

 

[WileE65]

Man, Long thread... But lotsa' good info.
I feel like I need to monitor my mash pH, but i am having a hard time coughing up the cash for a good meter.
Is there any way to trust a test strip? I understand that there's a wide range in quality and span when looking at them. I 'think' that the ColorpHast strips seem to be high quality and have a quantifiable offset. (As seen in BrauKaisers evaluation.) http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=An_Evaluation_of_the_suitability_of_colorpHast_strips_for_pH_measurements_in_home_brewing
So, would this be 'good enough' for brewing? Are they consistant? Would one batch of strips (or its' age) cause them to be different from another? -Or do I have to bite the bullet and go big-time?

 

[ajdelange]

So, it would take me awhile to get through all 70+ pages of this, but i read a bit into it, but i'm just making sure... the following that AJ put up, the further you go down, you just add it to the baseline, correct?

Yes, that's about right. There are a couple of ways to go about it though. I really prefer that people start off with nothing but calcium chloride and at that about half a tsp per 5 gal. That will almost never fail unless the beer is weird somehow i.e. has a ton of dark/roast malt in it.

When that beer is brewed taste it and then taste it again and again as you add more calcium chloride and some calcium sulfate. Take note of how much of those two salts you have added in the glass for the best taste and then brew the beer again with salt additions scaled to the full volume. This will get you in the ballpark but you will still need to experiment with different levels in the beer.

The Primer says to double up for things like IPA's. That is where you may eventually wind up but that is really in there because everyone thinks IPA's etc need a lot of sulfate. To some people's taste they do. To others they definitely do not. That's why I recommend the taste test approach.

 

[ajdelange]

Is there any way to trust a test strip?

From what I can tell, no. But keep in mind this comment is coming from a color blind brewer. The assessment is based on some photographs I was sent a couple of years ago of test strips dipped in solutions at various pH's. I was asked to guess the pH's from the photos. A picture of the legend on the bottle was also included. Knowing that my eyes weren't good enough I did digital color measurements on the legend, found the parameter that varied most with pH, plotted that parameter vs pH and then measured that same parameter for the sample strips. Turned out the strip colors were not on the continuum of colors on the legend so I don't know how someone, even with normal color vision could accurately determine the pH.

Things may have advanced since the days of that dry lab but I'm not aware of them and would be the wrong guy to ask anyway.

 

[brewski09]

From what I can tell, no. But keep in mind this comment is coming from a color blind brewer. The assessment is based on some photographs I was sent a couple of years ago of test strips dipped in solutions at various pH's. I was asked to guess the pH's from the photos. A picture of the legend on the bottle was also included. Knowing that my eyes weren't good enough I did digital color measurements on the legend, found the parameter that varied most with pH, plotted that parameter vs pH and then measured that same parameter for the sample strips. Turned out the strip colors were not on the continuum of colors on the legend so I don't know how someone, even with normal color vision could accurately determine the pH.

Having some non-brewing experience with pH strips, I can say the problem is the color of the wort will make the pH reading potentially inaccurate.

With that said, the strips are probably fine and if you want to get a sense of the pH, then go for it. The other option is to either buy a nice pH meter or trust the grain to buffer the water properly

 

[WileE65]

Thanks AJ,
I see that the problem with the test strips is that they are very subjective. So, 'I Think it looks like this one' could be different from one person to another.
But, the accuracy is the real question. If I can assume that they are consistant, and add .35pH to the percieved reading, then they may be fine. I am just not sure how repeatable they are.

And Brewski,
I guess that's a good point. I never considered that the darkness of the wort could stain the pad and offset the reading.

 

[ajdelange]

I see that the problem with the test strips is that they are very subjective. So, 'I Think it looks like this one' could be different from one person to another.

You can take the subjectivity out by doing what I did. Once you get a set of calibration pictures it's fairly simple to 'read' the pH from an iPhone (or whatever) picture using your computer's color meter and a calibration curve made from the calibration buffers. You would have to take the pictures under identical (from the color quality POV) conditions.

But, the accuracy is the real question. If I can assume that they are consistant, and add .35pH to the percieved reading, then they may be fine. I am just not sure how repeatable they are.

I can't assure you of that. Also, the variation between manufacturers not to mention lot numbers is not assured.

 

[WileE65]

I really like your way of 'analyzing' the test strips, thereby taking the guesswork out of the process.
I had seen in this thread where Remilard stated "The ph meter is the single best hot side investment I have made (and useful on the cold side as well)."
I think that this along with the uncertainty of test strips has me leaning towards biting the bullet after all.
I guess it's not so bad though. After looking at various pen and stick style pH meters, I felt discouraged. I don't find any cheapos with good specs. I did however come across this:
Milwaukee Mw102 for $90 shipped.
I like the specs, and I believe that it would serve as a good reference thermometer also.

 

[ajdelange]

The main problem with inexpensive meters seems to be their stability. If you check the pH of one of the calibration buffers several minutes after calibration you read something quite a bit different from the buffer's proper pH value. To see if you have this situation it is essential to do a stability check with any new meter. Instructions on how to do this and other pH meter info can be found at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/

 

[Deric]

Sorry in advance if this question is redundant.... I've read through this thread and thought I caught it before but just skimmed the whole thing again and didn't find it.

When brewing a middle of the road pale or IPA (or any other beer) should the acid malt replace a portion of the base malt or be in addition to the entire grain bill? I thought I read to substitute an equal portion of the base malt.

Is this correct?

Thanks!

 

[ajdelange]

As acid malt is usually a small percentage of the total grain bill (2 - 3%) it doesn't make much difference. The intent is that 2-3% of the total grist be acid malt. Acid malt is malt and so in addition to supplying lactic acid it does provide flavor. I think of it as a relatively light caramel malt as it is apparently 'cured' to some extent. So however you formulate your grain bill keep that in mind. If I had a 100 pound grist that needed its pH lowered by 0.3 pH I'd just add 3 lbs rather than take out 3 lbs of something else and replace with 3 lbs of sauermalz but you could do it that way too. Consistency is the important thing here.

 

[Deric]

Thanks for the reply!

 

[MTBbrewer]

Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.

 

[emjay]

Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.

Phosphoric acid.

However, commercial lactic acid is not produced from milk, but generally by bacterial fermentation.

 

[MTBbrewer]

Phosphoric acid.

However, commercial lactic acid is not produced from milk, but generally by bacterial fermentation.

Do you know where I could find out how it is produced?

 

[emjay]

Do you know where I could find out how it is produced?

Call the manufacturer.

 

[brewski09]

Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.

Do a sour mash with the prescribed percentage of the base malt the night before. The barley already has enough lactobacillus to make the required acid malt.

 

[MTBbrewer]

Has anyone ever worked with a sour mash? I found a couple of how to's on the BYO site. My biggest concern would be how to keep it warm for 2 to 4 days.

 

[MTBbrewer]

I have read the Brewing Water Chemistry Primer at the top and I have a question. I planned on brewing a Scottish Export 80 this weekend. I will be brewing with 100% RO water. The grain bill consists of: 8 lb 2-Row, 1 lb Crystal 40L, 8 oz Honey, 8 oz Crystal 120L, and 2 oz Chocolate. If I am reading the Primer correctly, since this has some darker malts I should be using the one that is for roasted malts. The one that says skip the sauermalz, and just use 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride.

If I am correct with the above information then my question is this, can I substitute Gypsum for the Calcium Chloride? The reason I ask is because I have Gypsum, but I had to order Calcium Chloride and it won't be in by this weekend. If that sounds like a bad idea than just say so, and I will wait until the Calcium Chloride comes in to brew.

 

[emjay]

I have read the Brewing Water Chemistry Primer at the top and I have a question. I planned on brewing a Scottish Export 80 this weekend. I will be brewing with 100% RO water. The grain bill consists of: 8 lb 2-Row, 1 lb Crystal 40L, 8 oz Honey, 8 oz Crystal 120L, and 2 oz Chocolate. If I am reading the Primer correctly, since this has some darker malts I should be using the one that is for roasted malts. The one that says skip the sauermalz, and just use 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride.

If I am correct with the above information then my question is this, can I substitute Gypsum for the Calcium Chloride? The reason I ask is because I have Gypsum, but I had to order Calcium Chloride and it won't be in by this weekend. If that sounds like a bad idea than just say so, and I will wait until the Calcium Chloride comes in to brew.

I generally wouldn't. Gypsum and chloride affect the taste in very different ways. Personally, I'd wait to brew. But I'm sure there are others who would go for it anyways.

 

[ajdelange]

Go to the canning section of your supermarket and buy some 'pickle crisp'. That is calcium chloride.

 

[MTBbrewer]

That's cool to know.

 

[brewski09]

Has anyone ever worked with a sour mash? I found a couple of how to's on the BYO site. My biggest concern would be how to keep it warm for 2 to 4 days.

I just did it overnight and it added plenty of sour into the Moylan's Kiltlifter clone

 

[itsratso]

this thread has gone on for over 2 years, 78 pages. and AJ comes on here every day to answer questions from the technical to the obvious (like mine, for instance). the amount of patience needed alone, good god. thanx for providing so much help to so many for so long.

 

[MTBbrewer]

this thread has gone on for over 2 years, 78 pages. and AJ comes on here every day to answer questions from the technical to the obvious (like mine, for instance). the amount of patience needed alone, good god. thanx for providing so much help to so many for so long.

I agree and want to thank everyone who has help me with my question.

 

[thatjonguy]

A. J.:

Loved your foreword in Water. I can't wait to read the rest of the book and see what you helped John and Colin with. I am sure it will "up my game" by a fair margin.

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks! It was harder to write than I thought it would be and I didn't have much time. I am most anxious to see the finished product but probably won't until I get back to the States.

Also anxious to see what the overall reaction to the book will be.

 

[djt17]

A. J.:

Loved your foreword in Water. I can't wait to read the rest of the book and see what you helped John and Colin with. I am sure it will "up my game" by a fair margin.

Mine is in transit; don't spoil the ending!

 

[mchrispen]

They all get wet at the end...