how to increase mouthfeel?

[devilsbeltbrewing]

Hi guys ive been all grain brewing for a few years now and still learn new things constantly. lately i feel like my pal ales are lacking body or mouthfeel. just a little too lite for my liking. i was wondering if anyone has tips for how to increase the body. the beer always has great flavor and a healthy fermentation achieving its target gravity. I typically do fly sparging as to a batch sparge would running the sparge a second time do much more. i know my SG is where it needs to be. Another thing that came across my mind is i just use a calibrated analog thermometer and not digital but can it be a temp issue and i am not mashing at the best temp?/ i usually mash at about 152-155F and hold that for 60 min. use anywhere from 12-16 pounds of grains depending on beer. any tips or comments would be great, thanks and cheers----

 

[jamorgan3777]

Adding rolled oats can give body and mouthfeel to thinner beers. Could also try higher starting gravity or a less attenuating/different strain of yeast.

 

[hezagenius]

Are you hitting your target OG and FG?

You can add maltodextrin powder to the boil.

You can add dextrine malt to the mash.

 

[TheMadKing]

+1 to just raising your gravity, IME nothing affects the body of a beer more than the OG/FG. The second best thing I've found is flaked barley. It works about 1000 times better than oats (that's my official scientific estimation).

 

[DaWhip]

+1 to just raising your gravity, IME nothing affects the body of a beer more than the OG/FG. The second best thing I've found is flaked barley. It works about 1000 times better than oats (that's my official scientific estimation).

How much barley to achieve results? I am working on a low ABV ale (trying to stay around 3%) and I really like the flavor I'm getting, but it really lacks in mouthfeel. Barley sounds like a good option if I'm not adding so much it blows my ABV up.

 

[TheMadKing]

How much barley to achieve results? I am working on a low ABV ale (trying to stay around 3%) and I really like the flavor I'm getting, but it really lacks in mouthfeel. Barley sounds like a good option if I'm not adding so much it blows my ABV up.

Well flaked barley is unmalted, so it won't contribute to your ABV at all. I would start at about 10% of your grist and if that's not enough, just amp it up to 20%.

I use about 25% in my Guinness recipe based on this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=28239

its about 4% abv, but has the mouthfeel of a much bigger beer, partially because of nitro, but also because of the flaked barley.

 

[Kharnynb]

also upping your mash temp can increase body by having a higher % of alpha amylase.

how accurate is your mash temp? maybe try 160 or a bit below?

 

[TheMadKing]

also upping your mash temp can increase body by having a higher % of alpha amylase.

how accurate is your mash temp? maybe try 160 or a bit below?

I disagree with this recommendation.

160 will result in an undrinkable sweet not-quite-beer... It will be virtually unfermentable. I would never go above 157F or you'll just end up with a FG about 2 points lower than your OG.

 

[Kharnynb]

I disagree with this recommendation.

160 will result in an undrinkable sweet not-quite-beer... It will be virtually unfermentable. I would never go above 157F or you'll just end up with a FG about 2 points lower than your OG.

sorry my celcius to fahrenheit conversion was wrong
157 is indeed about right if you want to go for high alpha.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Well flaked barley is unmalted, so it won't contribute to your ABV at all. I would start at about 10% of your grist and if that's not enough, just amp it up to 20%.

I use about 25% in my Guinness recipe based on this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=28239

its about 4% abv, but has the mouthfeel of a much bigger beer, partially because of nitro, but also because of the flaked barley.

Flaked barley being unmalted just means it won't have any enzymes, not that it won't contribute to the gravity. It has plenty of starch that will be converted in the mash, which is why it has to be mashed to use it properly.


I'd say you can't go wrong with bringing the mash temp up a few degrees for more body, but adjuncts will do wonders. I'd probably use up to 10 percent for a Pale Ale unless I was experimenting. Flaked wheat is usually my go to, but flaked wheat, oats, rye, and barley will all contribute to mouthfeel in different ways. I find wheat adds a nice creamy texture and is also foam positive, oats have that heavy/slick feel and kill head in my experience, rye has a really unique flavor that will contribute a syrupy feel, and I haven't used flaked barley yet, but will soon. From what I know it has similar properties to wheat and both could probably be used a reasonable substitute for the other.

You could also use carapils for similar results, or even increase crystal to 10 percent if it's lower than that, but that might do less than you'd expect.

 

[TheMadKing]

Flaked barley being unmalted just means it won't have any enzymes, not that it won't contribute to the gravity. It has plenty of starch that will be converted in the mash, which is why it has to be mashed to use it properly.

Yep, I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that... As soon as I read this I went "duh".. Thanks for the correction!

 

[DaWhip]

Thanks, I'll give barley a shot next week. After playing around on BF I think I'll sub barley for 10% of my base (maris otter) and see where that gets me.

Currently doing 1 gallon BIAB test batches. I racked the current batch to secondary last night and could have drank the whole thing after I sampled it. Very tasty, but needs a little weight to it to remind me I'm not drinking water.

 

[specharka]

I disagree with this recommendation.



160 will result in an undrinkable sweet not-quite-beer... It will be virtually unfermentable. I would never go above 157F or you'll just end up with a FG about 2 points lower than your OG.

Stone mashes their IPA at 162F, and it finishes around 1.018. It all depends what your grainbill consists of.

A beer mashed at a higher temperature will taste fuller, but not necessarily sweeter. The unfermentable dextrins that alpha amylase synthesizes have a much lower perceptible sweetness than maltose and maltotriose. A beer that doesn't attenuate due to stalled yeast will always taste sweeter by comparison.

In fact, practically the ONLY way to produce a satisfying table beer is to employ a mash schedule which reduces the efficacy of beta amylase (e.g. a turbid mash).

 

[logdrum]

Bear in mind that flaked barley has a distinct flavor (which you may or may not desire). I rarely use more than a couple ounces in a 5 gal batch.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Bear in mind that flaked barley has a distinct flavor (which you may or may not desire). I rarely use more than a couple ounces in a 5 gal batch.

I have heard this before, but how distinctive? Is it in unpleasant?

I also have a hard time believing 1 or 2 oz. of it would have any effect, and why use that little when you could use 5-10 percent flaked wheat which has little distinctive flavor (in my opinion) especially in brews that have a lot going on in terms of grain, hops, and/or yeast.

 

[logdrum]

I have heard this before, but how distinctive? Is it in unpleasant?

I also have a hard time believing 1 or 2 oz. of it would have any effect, and why use that little when you could use 5-10 percent flaked wheat which has little distinctive flavor (in my opinion) especially in brews that have a lot going on in terms of grain, hops, and/or yeast.

I wouldn't call it unpleasant, but it is a dry grainy flavor. I used 4 oz in a 5 gal batch of pale ale once & the taste was definitely apparent, plus the foam was also a bit much. The next time I used it, I cut back to 2 oz (I did use some flaked oats this time as well) and preferred the results. I plan on using some flaked wheat in my next brew-Election Day! As always: my $.02, YMMV, etc.

 

[mattdee1]

Great thread, I've had similar questions about the flaked adjuncts as I don't have much experience using them.

Mouthfeel is one thing, and it's important, but I'd like to understand the effects on flavor and beer clarity as well.

Is there any consensus on which choice is the most neutral in flavor? My guess would be flaked wheat but flaked wheat seems to add to haziness which might not be desirable.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I use 10% of wheatmalt and mash at 71 deg C and make beers from 1.7% abv to 7% abv.

 

[Puddlethumper]

If you're looking at adjuncts I'd also suggest flaked wheat over flaked barley for an APA. I use 4 oz of flaked barley in my Irish Red and can definitely taste it there. In the case of an Irish Red that's a good thing. With an APA maybe not so much. You say you like the flavors you're getting now so it would seem safer to me to stick with a more neutral adjunct. Raising the mash temp will also change the fermentability and therefore the mouth-feel. So maybe try one step, then the other then combine the two?

Just 2c worth.
Cheers!

 

[mabrungard]

I tried flaked barley for almost 2 years in my beers and finally found that it just can't be used in any effective way without a flavor impact in pale beers. While flaked barley has 10 times the beta glucan's as flaked wheat, flaked wheat has a much more neutral flavor.

Using flaked wheat for bodybuilding is a much better alternative than raising the mashing temperature. I have a hard time believing that Stone uses a 162F mashing temperature. Are you sure?

 

[marc1]

Wyeast 1450 will increase mouthfeel.

 

[chickypad]

Stone mashes their IPA at 162F, and it finishes around 1.018. It all depends what your grainbill consists of.

Also wondering where you got that info, seems hard to believe to me as well. Neither the mash temp or FG seem to jibe with this BYO interview with Mitch Steele et. al., with recipes at the bottom. Especially when you consider his comment about their beers being quite dry, and they do drink that way, 1.018 sounds way high also. 149* and 1.012 seem a lot more like it.

 

[specharka]

Also wondering where you got that info, seems hard to believe to me as well. Neither the mash temp or FG seem to jibe with this BYO interview with Mitch Steele et. al., with recipes at the bottom. Especially when you consider his comment about their beers being quite dry, and they do drink that way, 1.018 sounds way high also. 149* and 1.012 seem a lot more like it.

Yeah unfortunately I can't recall where I saw that reference, so I might be way off base. The recipe posted on the Stone website for their pale ale mashes for 20 minutes at 156F, so they do mash at higher temperatures for other beers.

 

[SpentBrains]

I have learned more from threads like this... great topic.

First a story. One cold rainy night, while wandering the streets of Dublin a few years ago (airline pilot on a layover) I happened into a pub and ordered a Beamish Stout, a bowl of bean soup, a healthy chunk of brown bread & a few tablespoons of the richest Irish butter I'd ever eaten. The combo was the perfect antidote for such a depressing day and place. I'd visited Kilmainham Gaol that afternoon. A Victorian era prison, the monument commemorates all of the patriots of the Irish revolution against English Imperialism. Unlike the American revolution however, the English hanged all of the Irish patriots and would be founding fathers... The magical dancing of the highly nitro'd Stout as it settled, got me thinking...The conclusion? That I'd have another beer.

Ever since then I've marveled at mouth feel. Over the course of the last year I've experimented with flake ads. Two of my beers in particular lend to my limited understanding. Here's what I've experienced:

A) My go to house IPA, that I almost always have in the pipeline. Normally, split a 10 gallon batch with half destined for the keggerator. That pairs well with my spicy culinary habits, or as a sedative to suffer through evening TV. The other 5 gallon half gets bottled and often given away as motivational gifts.

The 10 gallon malt bill: 22lbs 2 row, 1 pound crystal 15, 1 pound Munich and seasonally I add 1 pound of flaked wheat.

Until I tried adding the wheat, I didn't understand how wheat was the throttle for huge head retention compared to the "Reinheitsgrebot" (no adjuncts) version. The thicker creamier version is a different animal than the exact same beer without the wheat. Wheat changes everything, from how much carbonation the beer can hold, to how the hops seem to be showcased. I like both styles, but the version with the wheat seams more well suited to fall and winter, while the thinner, crisper non-wheaten version of the exact same recipe, is better IMHO in the warmer spring and summer months.

B) A dry Irish stout all grain kit beer https://www.morebeer.com/products/irish-stout-grain-beer-kit-advanced.html that came with flaked barley.

Young yet, I just tasted my first bottle last night. HELLO BARLEY. I really brewed this batch for a buddy who travels to Ireland all the time and grouses that he can't buy good beer in the states. The other stouts I've made were thickened up with silly adjuncts like baker's chocolate and powdered peanut butter or oatmeal, but this recipe actually got there (my target mouth feel) by the flaked barley that it came with. 20 lbs. British Pale 2 lb. Black Roasted 4 lbs. Flaked Barley.

I can't imagine adding flaked barley to an APA or lighter beer without seriously changing the targeted flavor. In addition to thicker creamier results, barley makes this beer taste different.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Wyeast 1450 will increase mouthfeel.

This combined with 1/2 lb oats toasted at 350 degrees for 1/2 hour works for me.