My new brew system, a brutus 10 with some nice modifications

Williams 728
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Howdy folks, quick question for the electrically impaired. I am beginning my build and like this design/set up with the auber/honeywell PID's and gas valves. I am sure that I can assemble this if I had all the parts in front of me, but have a purchasing question.

What type of transformer would I need? would something like this work?

http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-...Transformer-with-9-in-leadwires-and-end-bells

Also Jlandin if you are around, where did you pick up your panel connectors, bridges and switches. I think those are radio shack items and just need to be rated to the appropriate loads. Am I correct?
 
Commonwealth said:
What type of transformer would I need? would something like this work? http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-...Transformer-with-9-in-leadwires-and-end-bells Also Jlandin if you are around, where did you pick up your panel connectors, bridges and switches. I think those are radio shack items and just need to be rated to the appropriate loads. Am I correct?
Click to expand...

That transformer should be fine. I got the bridges and switches at Radio Shack. The power in/out modules I got from some local electronics shop, but you can find those online. The RTD panel connectors I got from Auber and for the 24V out connectors I used little DC connectors from Radio Shack.

--
Josh
 
Josh, you are a saint amongst homebrewers. thanks so much for your advice and answers. All is beginning to fall into place for me, just yesterday I met a local homebrewer that can weld Stainless, has a connection for cheap metal and is about to take the same step as me by building his first single tier. To quote him "well building two isn't much different than building two and some stuff will be cheaper that way."

I have just moved to Vermont earlier this year and had to leave 1/2 of my brewery with my old brew buddy that I had split everything with. In short I kept our stainless conical and fell into a small bit of unexpected money, so I am rebuilding my dream brewery. Your info and pictures (along with many others here) have been an inspiration and huge help to get me organized.

My kettles and valves arrived this week, and I think I have the final sketch of the system and the parts list (and their sources) all set. Time to start purchasing.
 
Josh,

Thanks for putting this up! Quick question - is there anything running inside the square metal tubing that the gas hookups protrude from, or did you just weld it shut and use it as a square gas pipe?

-Ryan
 
aphex732 said:
Josh,
Thanks for putting this up! Quick question - is there anything running inside the square metal tubing that the gas hookups protrude from, or did you just weld it shut and use it as a square gas pipe?
-Ryan
Click to expand...

It's just welded the ends shut as a single tube. I notched out the ends of the pipe just like I did here:

IMG00261.jpg


I then bent the flap of metal over the end nice and tight, and welded it shut. Post #6 here gets into the gas manifold pictures. In the last picture you can see the end welded shut. Be sure to pressure test it before and after you weld it to the main frame (mine had a pinhole leak on one end).

--
Josh
 
Very nice write up.

What orifice size do you settle on for your burners? I drilled 2 of mine to .094" and I've been testing another one around .080" I think I'm getting more btu out of the .094", but the .080 flame is much tighter and is better if there is any kind of breeze around. I think something around .085 might be ideal.

I tested both with 3 gallons of water and they were about even on the heat up.
 
Hey Josh or others who may have built something along these lines. Most of my parts have arrived and I have a couple more electrical questions. Are you using waterproof switches? and is there somewhere that you show a more detailed wiring diagram? I have seen the one Josh posted but am curious how all of this runs through the bridges. As in what positions on the controllers, etc. I wonder if you have something hand drawn that you could scan? Thanks again for all the help
 
Quick question on this system regarding the pilot lights. Would it support something like the spark ignition mod I have seen on other posts? They call for a dual control valve equipped for direct spark ignition.
 
Also does anyone have a more detailed version of the wiring diagram? Josh, your "thrown together" one was helpful to me as I was shopping and planning but now that I am ready to start connecting I am lost. Like many before me I am a bit of an electrical rookie.
 
So I am beginning to figure out more for wiring. Does the MAIN switch need to be a Double Pole? Again sorry for the rookie questions
 
Remind me why you have the HOA switch on the gas? With a gas shut off valve and those super safe honeywell valves I'm not understanding the purpose. I am sure I read it somewhere but can't find the thread now.

Also why aren't the pumps rigged into the automatic system? Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.
 
Commonwealth said:
Remind me why you have the HOA switch on the gas?
Click to expand...

The HOA switches just add the ability to override the PID controller. So for example, if you want to fire the burner to boil some water you can just hit "on". The "off" position is pretty obvious, but there are times when you want to turn off the burner now and not mess with the PID. By the way, you wouldn't want to turn off the gas valve as that would also turn off your pilot lights.

Commonwealth said:
Also why aren't the pumps rigged into the automatic system?
Click to expand...

The pumps are manual because the movement of fluid in this system is manual. Other more automated systems (think brewtroller) might automate the fluid movement, but this is not the goal of the original brutus 10 design. Instead the main automation goal is temperature control in the HLT and Mash.

--
Josh
 
Commonwealth said:
Quick question on this system regarding the pilot lights. Would it support something like the spark ignition mod I have seen on other posts? They call for a dual control valve equipped for direct spark ignition.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about just grill-style, push-button spark ignitors, then yes. If you are talking about something like a Honeywell S87B1008, then you will need to use different valves. Mainly the cost goes up considerably to put together the "ignition-sequence module" style.

--
Josh
 
Josh, thank you again for your many answers. I thought the gas valve thing had to do with safety and being able to kill gas flow if the "fit was hitting the shan" and you needed to shut the system down emergency style. I understand the automation, that was kind of what I was thinking, keep the pumps manual like the boil kettle. As for auto sparking ignition I agree and don't think it is worth the cost. I brew indoors (garage anyhow) and have never really walked away from a brew batch for more than a run to the toilet or check something on the computer.

So as best as I can tell I would need double pole switches for the HOA stuff and single pole for the rest? And I am not finding a lot of 24V rated switches out there. I assume I could use over rated switches for the gas valve purpose. I am hoping to use waterproof stuff it is a bit more but I think with everything I am putting into this worth the extra 5 or 6 bucks each. After all there are really only 5 switches.
 
Right, the switches for the pumps and the main are single pole single throw, and the HOA switches for the burners are single pole double throw.

The "oh shnit" valves are the 3 valves coming out of the gas beam manifold; one for each burner. Turning one of these off prevents gas from flowing into the Honeywell solenoid valves, which implicitly extinguishes the pilot lights. I find that in most cases when I want to turn off the burner quickly, I don't want the pilot light to go out. I like to light those in the morning, and leave them on almost all day (very handy). So, the HOA switches are really useful for turning the burner flame on and off, without affecting the pilot lights.

--
Josh
 
once again Josh you are the man! I am a few switches and some plumbing pieces away from having my parts list completed. I'll have to get with someone local who is a bit more electrically savvy for the wiring.
 
Or you use this off of the orifice

http://andersonfittings.thomasnet.c...female-flare-both-ends-sae-45-flare-fittings?

And then one of the adaptors, like the ones that come with your standard yellow gas flex lines.

http://andersonfittings.thomasnet.c.../ru1-6d?&bc=100|1001|1009|1038|1045|1044|1049

or one of the 90 degree elbow adaptors to put the valve well under the burner heat .

http://andersonfittings.thomasnet.c...ttings/e1-8b?&bc=100|1001|1009|1038|1045|1015

With these wouldn't you be able to go rigid and avoid the bracket? There are
 
Josh,

If I was to say add 2 indicator lights to each of the HOA switches, would I then need the DPDT ? Also how many posts would the terminal strip then need on the 24V side?

I'm nearly there
 
Commonwealth said:
If I was to say add 2 indicator lights to each of the HOA switches, would I then need the DPDT ? Also how many posts would the terminal strip then need on the 24V side?
I'm nearly there
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you want the indicator lights to show that the burner is being sent a voltage? If so, just buy 24V lights and put them on the downstream side of the PID.

So, if you had:

Code: 
24V ------> Switch (Auto) ---> PID ---\
      \---> Switch (Hand) ---------------> To Valve

It would become:

Code: 
24V ------> Switch (Auto) ---> PID ---\
      \---> Switch (Hand) ---------------> Light ---> To Valve

This way, if either the PID is firing the burner or you are manually firing it, the light/led would be on.

--
Josh
 
I was going to add a light for each on setting. As in a red for Auto and a yellow for the Hand. I thought it would be nice to know what mode I am in via an idiot light instead of the switch position. I couldn't find any illuminated 24VAC rockers, at least not any DT.

Does that make my oddball question any clearer?
 
Commonwealth said:
I was going to add a light for each on setting. As in a red for Auto and a yellow for the Hand. I thought it would be nice to know what mode I am in via an idiot light instead of the switch position. I couldn't find any illuminated 24VAC rockers, at least not any DT.
Does that make my oddball question any clearer?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, that helps. Then I think you want this:

Code: 
24V ------> Switch (Auto) ---> Red Light ---> PID ---\
      \---> Switch (Hand) ---> Yellow Light ---------------> To Valve

It's still a SPDT switch and the lights are rated for 24V.

--
Josh
 
Ahh thank you most honorable brewing and wiring mastah!! And if I understand this correctly that way I do not need to add the lights to the terminal strip.

Thanks again Josh, you have been great. I hope your system is treating you right!
 
Hey Josh, I love your Brutus creation! My stand is being welded and I am trying to slowly obtain all the other items to build my Brutus. I am also using the same Honeywell valves, pilot, & thermocouple. Is there a particular reason you went with an Auber Pid controller with the RTD temp probes, instead of a Love display and the sensors that work for with the Love display, since you are using the Auber in on/off mode?

I also am going to use the low pressure Banjo burners and I wanted to know do you have good control on the flame adjustment? I am probably going to use a Marshall 299 Low pressure regulator in conjunction with the gas beam. I thought about using the smaller 9 inch Banjo burner for firing the mash tun? Do you think this is a better option than three 10 inch Banjos's? Any help with my questions is most appreciated........

John
 
Thanks John! There's no reason you couldn't go with Love controllers. I actually like Love controllers a lot, and used them on my Keezer and Fermentation Kabinett. For this project though, I liked the Auber PIDs because they show you the current and target temperature at the same time and the set buttons are super easy. The Love requires you to hit the button to set or even see the set-point. Also, when I was shopping around, Love controllers were around $65, making these $23 cheaper each. One final thing I do like about PIDs is the option to go electric on one (or more) of the vessels in the future without replacing the controller.

I have great control with the burner adjustment on my low pressure BG14s. No complaints here. Using a smaller burner on the mash is not a bad idea I guess, if it saves you money. My mash tun has a perforated stainless steel convex (hump style) false bottom that covers the enter bottom of the vessel. I would theorize that the larger diameter burner is beneficial in heating that entire wort cavity more evenly than a smaller one might. Either way, you'll need to dial back the mash valve to prevent scorching since the Honeywell valves are full open or full closed style. I usually have the manifold valve to the mash closed about halfway and haven't had any scorching issues.

--
Josh
 
Josh, excellent information and this definfitely helps me out a lot! I like the idea of seeing both the current temp and target temp at the same time also, and without pressing buttons.

On the burner topic, the same large burner under the mash tun makes sense also, since you have a large surface area to heat. I'm considering doing this as well, especially since your advising that there is a good amount of flame control with the gas valve on the manfold, and I can turn the flame down on low. Plus I am planning on installing the two stage low pressure regulator which hopefully will enable a full range of flame control.

Thanks again,

John
 
slakwhere said:
josh, can i get some measurements so i can begin blatantly ripping off all of your hard work in my very own stand? =)
Click to expand...

The outside dimensions are 20" (deep) x 60" (long) x 30" (high). Everything else should be decipherable from those numbers. The top and bottom structures are identical, connected by four corner posts.

Have fun with your build! This thing is a joy to brew on!

--
Josh
 
have you had any issues with the top of your structure being flat? i'm just curious if you have any keg sliding issues, as i see a few of the other single tiers implement some sort of rail or tray to keep things in the right spot...
 
slakwhere said:
have you had any issues with the top of your structure being flat? i'm just curious if you have any keg sliding issues, as i see a few of the other single tiers implement some sort of rail or tray to keep things in the right spot...
Click to expand...

I haven't had any problems like that. I set them up there at the beginning of a brew day, and I don't move them until it's time to clean.

--
Josh
 
slakwhere said:
and i assume the same is true of your ball valves on the kegs not getting too hot because of the angle iron?
Click to expand...

The ball valves are fine. The areas that emit the most heat are the corners where the openings are. If I was to redo my keggles, I'd forgo the analog thermometers and put the siteglasses 90 degrees to the valves. They were mainly added as a backup in case a PID dies mid-brew, but I'd use my digital food thermometer in that rare case anyway.

--
Josh
 
maybe i'll look at welding some corner covers on the front half to keep the heat off the front of the build where my hands are most likely to be... thanks!

currently sitting at work sketching up the basics and getting a cut list together for the steel shop. my boss thanks you for totally torpedoing my productivity.
 

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