Did the Primary Vs. Secondary test . . .

So, my friend has been brewing with me and he feels that moving to a secondary helps with the flavor of the beer, and I told him that the growing census is that its actually better to leave the beer in the primary for the duration of the conditioning. So . . . we did it!

We bought two of the same kits (Anchor Steam), brewed it on the same day with the same water. Brewed it the exact same (except I forgot to put the Irish moss into the pot. . . but that should only make my beer less clear from my research). He also racked a lot of the trub/coldbreak/etc into the primary. I only grabbed the liquid and BARELY any trub. So, we pitched (around 71F) and let them sit. He racked to secondary at 2.3 weeks and I kept in primary for the entire 30 days.

We then racked into our kegs, pressurized, and waited 1.3 weeks for them to carb.

Last night we got together and did a taste test and we all felt that the batch that was secondaried was actually much better.

The other felt like it was actually very GREEN. So, we're waiting another 1.3 weeks and then trying out again, but I'm just lost here guys! I've been doing all my beers this way and I've had the same taste in all of them. I'm wondering if its the single primary rather then moving to secondary now!

Some further reading. I believe that if you have the skill and the knowledge, secondaries are very worth it.

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/Secondary_fermentation_and_why_it_makes_me_crazy/

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Some further reading. I believe that if you have the skill and the knowledge, secondaries are very worth it.

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/Secondary_fermentation_and_why_it_makes_me_crazy/

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Ok, so read the article. Seems like good information and I'll definitely take that into consideration. Can anyone explain to me what Tannins would taste like? I want to know if the taste that I'm getting is from tannins or if it is just to young?

From How to Brew

The analogy to a tea bag is a good one in that if the grain is left in for too long (hours), astringent tannin compounds (a.k.a. phenols) can be extracted from the grain husks. The compounds give the wort a dry puckering taste, much like a black tea that has been left to steep too long. The extraction of tannins is especially prevalent if the water is too hot - above 170°F. Previous practices regarding the use of specialty grains had the brewer putting the grain in the pot and bringing it to a boil before removal. That method often resulted in tannin extraction.

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Wow, wish I drank tea HAHA. I'm guessing that this is the problem. I think my temps ranged WAY too much for this beer when I was doing the mini-mash. I've already built a MLT, and am hoping with Beersmith, that I will be able to maintain the temp much better next time with my first AG batch.

Thanx for the help BK.

Irish Moss also helps a great deal to drop out tannins, getting rid of that "Green" taste more quickly.

You can't really trust your data as you did not rack the same into the primary.
Did you brew with the same equipment? Were all of your times and temps exactly the same?
You'll need to do it again and do everything the same if you want to truly know.

I'll preclude this by saying I'm not trying to be argumentative, just healthy discussion. What makes your experiment questionable from a research standpoint is that conditions were not identical. You didn't use irish moss, and even though it may only affect clarity, are you certain of that? Perhaps more significant is that you took little trub, your friend took a lot. Maybe more trub was beneficial in terms of the flavor of the finished product, and it had nothing to do with the secondary. Were other conditions identical? Pitching rate, pitching temp, fermentation temp, fermentation vessel (glass vs. plastic) etc? No need to answer, just making the point.

Personally, I used a secondary on my first batch ever, and on a recent batch with oak cubes added. Other than that, a secondary is not for me, and I'm pleased with my results. If you (or anyone else for that matter) likes to use a secondary and you're happy with the results, keep it up and let's share some pints someday

How to Setup a Controlled Science Experiment.

You're going to need to do several double-identical batches in order to get it right. Each test can only observe the effects of one variable versus the null hypothesis. Therefore, you need two separate batches to test secondaries "effects" on flavor with irish moss, no irish moss, trub, no trub, etc etc etc. It could be ANY number of things that made your batch taste more green.

I would add to the above with the suggestion that you and your friend switch who is using a secondary and who is using only primary (either for one test or switch back and forth multiple times). It may just be that he executed better on that particular brew day, and that's why you both voted for his beer, rather than being a function of the secondary vs. primary.

The only thing that's been proven so far is that your buddy's process produces better beer than yours. Just my $.02

nothing has been proven, I'm just stating my experiances. Also, there's NO WAY I'm going through all these trials. haha I'm just sharing my experience. Thank you all for all the opinions, but I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way? I want to actually meet up with another home brewer out here in Mission viejo,CA to test out their brew and see their process. I'm thinking it might be our process that is causing this.