cidery/ green apple flavor

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im322305

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Hey all,

I made an Imperial IPA about 2.5 weeks ago and got a gravity reading tonight which turned out to be 1.020 (right around my expected FG). I drank the hydrometer sample and to my dismay it had green apple and cidery flavors. I know this has to be due to acetaldehyde but cant put my finger on what exactly caused it. From what I have found it could be due to corn sugar (i used 1 lb), unhealthy yeast, or just not enough time to condition. Depending upon whether it has stopped fermenting (which it seems like - no airlock activity in the past 24 hrs.) i was planning on racking to a secondary to dry hop for a week and then bottle. Should I just let it sit longer in the primary in hopes of ridding of the green apple flavor? Any suggestions? Thanks
 
im322305 said:
Hey all,

I made an Imperial IPA about 2.5 weeks ago and got a gravity reading tonight which turned out to be 1.020 (right around my expected FG). I drank the hydrometer sample and to my dismay it had green apple and cidery flavors. I know this has to be due to acetaldehyde but cant put my finger on what exactly caused it. From what I have found it could be due to corn sugar (i used 1 lb), unhealthy yeast, or just not enough time to condition. Depending upon whether it has stopped fermenting (which it seems like - no airlock activity in the past 24 hrs.) i was planning on racking to a secondary to dry hop for a week and then bottle. Should I just let it sit longer in the primary in hopes of ridding of the green apple flavor? Any suggestions? Thanks

Sit at least another 2 weeks..a month is pretty good for most imperials
 
I haven't used corn sugar but I have used rice solids and have found that in high amount (1+ lb) they can give a beer a slight cidery flavor. Combine that with a high gravity beer not being conditioned and that sounds like what you have. Rack to secondary and leave it for a week, then add your dry hops for another week. By then you'll find a lot of the cidery flavor has gone away. More will continue to disappear after you bottle or keg it.
 
What yeast did you use, what temp did you ferment at and did you make an appropriate sized starter? I tend to get more green apple with british yeast when fermented a higher temps. I don't think 1 pound of sugar would be enough to cause off flavors in an imperial IPA (I've used that amount quite often and never had an issue.)
 
This can happen with high pitch temps,&/or high initial ferment temps. Let it sit on the yeast cake for another week to clean up,& taste it again. I got that stuff on my 1st brew.
 
What yeast did you use, what temp did you ferment at and did you make an appropriate sized starter? I tend to get more green apple with british yeast when fermented a higher temps. I don't think 1 pound of sugar would be enough to cause off flavors in an imperial IPA (I've used that amount quite often and never had an issue.)
- BrookdaleBrew


I pitched 1 vial of WLP001 California Ale and 1 packet of US-05 at around 64F. I didnt use a starter. I looked on Mr Malty and found that i could just use 1 packet of 05 and 1 vial of 001 to hit a good pitching rate. The first day of ferm. it was at 70F and put in water bath once it hit 72F about 36 hrs after pitching. From there it was at anywhere from 68-64 F for the next 2.5 weeks.
 
You can't really judge a beer until it's been in the bottle at least 3 weeks. It's not even carbed yet, and that, along with conditioning goes a long way to giving you a true picture of what the beer will be like. Which more than likely will be fine.

It doesn't really matter what a beer tastes like halfway through fermentation, most of mine taste like ****...so I don't bother tasting them at that point. And I suggest to new brewers to do likewise, or else they start threads like this...because it's not halfway through fermentation that is a representation of the finished product....it's after the beer has been carbed and conditioned for about 6 weeks, that is an accurate representation of what a beer tastes like.

Carbonation and conditioning go a long way in a beer's final taste, including hoppiness, taste, aroma, etc. The CO2 lifts the flavors...And bitterness mellows with time.

Read this;

Singljohn hit the nail on the head...The only problem is that you aren't seeing the beer through it's complete process BEFORE calling what is probably just green beer, an off flavor.

It sounds like you are tasting it in the fermenter? If that is the case, do nothing. Because nothing is wrong.

It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.

In other words, relax, your beer will be just fine, like 99.5%.

You can find more info on that in here;

Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

Just remember it will not be the same beer it is now, and you shouldn't stress what you are tasting right now.

Our beer is more resilient then most new brewers realize, and time can be a big healer. Just read the stories in this thread of mine, and see how many times a beer that someone thought was bad, turned out to be fine weeks later.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

I would just relax, get the beer carbed and conditioned, and then see if you truly have an issue.
 
With an imperial you probably should have let it sit 4+ weeks.No big deal just let it sit in the bottle and condition more. My beers almost always have the flavor a little in the Final gravity sample, i know what your talking about, the earlier i bottle the more i taste this flavor.Ive noticed a significant decrease in that flavor doing 4 weeks instead of my usual three.Your sample is nothing as good as the beer will be in a month or two, maybe even 3 or so weeks.Your sample is only going to give you a vague rough idea of what it will be.
 
Let it sit for a few more weeks and it probably will tone down. Worst case scenaro is it won't but hey just put a spin on it as an apple imperial. Did you happen to use glacier hops? They can also give apple notes sometimes I use them in an apple pie ale to accent the apple notes. Just food for thought FYI.
 
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