Can You Help Me Plan a Belgian Strong Ale? Please.

Okay...

I'm a total newbie. I recently received a NB Deluxe starter kit as a gift. It came with an American Wheat Beer Extract Kit. I will be giving it a go as soon as I collect enough bottles. In the meantime I've been reading like a mad man and watch tons of videos that make everything look so simple. (I'm sure it's not that simple.)

Lately I've become a fan of the Darken Belgian style beers. I think that it would be awesome to make my own that will be ready around that time of the arrival of my first child. I'd also like to do it as my first all-grain. (Is this too ambitious?) I know that some planning will be required. I will need some more equipment, a recipe, special yeast, and patience. And... some help from you if you are willing.

From your experience what will I need?

What would be a good and accessible recipe?

What other pointer might you offer?

Thanks in advance!

Look up this thread if you want to go for it all, a Westy XII clone.
Many other good Dark Strong recipes out there too.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/

A couple of pointers.
-You will need authentic liquid yeast for the recipe (many Belgians use WYeast 3787). Build up a 1 gallon yeast starter, or easier yet make a smallish Patersbier to grow the yeast and wash yeast from that 5 gallon batch to pitch to the Dark Strong.
-Temperature control. A lot of good belgian brews start out in the mid 60's for a day or two, then ramp up slowly over the next 3-4 days to between 70 and 80 depending on style. You don't get the fusel alcohols early on in fermentation, but yet create the awesome esters that are critical to style. Make sure you chill the wort to the mid 60's BEFORE you pitch the yeast.
-You can make fantastic extract Belgians too. My 3rd batch ever was all extract and I have exactly 1 left. I will likely shed a tear when I finally consume it.
-If going all grain, I would suggest trying some partial mash beers or smaller all grain beers first. A 8-10% ABV Belgian is not the place to try out all grain for the first time IMO.
-Consider Brew in a Bag (BIAB) technique if you're unsure whether you might like all grain. Some people eventually switch to a traditional mash tun, some stay with BIAB. You can decide for yourself.
-Patience is key with Belgians. I particularly enjoy tasting a couple soon after carbing, and then consuming half the batch spaced out over the first year. The second half is awesome if you continue to age past a year.

First you need to get setup for all grain. Look into making a mash tun out of either a rectangle cooler or tall 10 gallon water cooler. You will need to make or buy a false bottom or take a steel braided hose from lowes and convert it to the equivelant of a bazooka tube. As far a recipe 90% Belgian pilsner malt, 5% special b Carmel malt and 5% and a lb of dark Belgian candy syrup You can also look into NB's Belgian all grain recipes online as there recipes are pretty good and a good base to go off to formulate your own recipe. If your going high gravity on your Belgian or any style beer (1.060 OG and higher). Your gonna wanna get a kit for making yeast starters and consult mr.malty.com yeast calculator. If you haven't read how to brew yet by John Palmer you should do that also.

Cheers pat!

+1 to what solbes said also!

High gravity brewing should be something to look into once you've got yeast pitch rates and fermentation temp control.

solbes made some very good points.

3787 is a good choice, I also like 1214. Make a big starter and aerate well before pitching.

His suggestion on temp control is right on. Keep the temp low for the first few days and then you can ramp it up. Once fermentation starts, do not let the temp drop. The second thing about fermenting Belgians is that they usually take mush longer than regular ales. Belgian yeast are known for fast fermentation for the first 80% and then they take a long time to finish out. Just make sure you give them enough time to fully finsh. Think months instead of weeks. One of the first Belgians I did, I let it ferment for 4 weeks, thought it was done, but obviously it was not and I ended up with way overcarbed brews. 3787 is notorious for taking a very long time to get the last few points of attenuation. Now when I use it I give it plenty of time, and raise the temp at the end to make sure it finishes.

Then let them bottle condition for a long time. I usually bottle my Belgians, half the batch in 12oz bottles and the other half in bombers. I start drinking the. 12oz bottles at about 4months. The bombers are set aside to age. I have some that are 2-3 years old and are aging beautifully.

I also suggest springing for the good syrup. Candi Syrup D-180 adds a great flavor to BDSA's. The sugar can make up 10-20% of the fermentables. That and some special B along with Belgin Pils and you can't go wrong. If you are doing extract you can use pils DME along with the other ingredients and make a very good brew. The recipes do not need to be complicated to be good.

BDSA's are not about the hops but just hopped just enough to get the right balance. The BU:GU ratio for a BDSA's should be about .297. I like saaz hops. But any noble hop works.

Good luck.

What kind of Belgian strong? I have an awesome recipe for a cherry dubbel - kinda like Mad Elf, that you could make as a partial mash.

J187 said:

What kind of Belgian strong? I have an awesome recipe for a cherry dubbel - kinda like Mad Elf, that you could make as a partial mash.

Click to expand...

Sounds interesting. Would a partial mash be a step between extract and all-grain?

Babybatch said:

Sounds interesting. Would a partial mash be a step between extract and all-grain?

Click to expand...

Yes a partial mash is a step between.

Here is a simple way to do one.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

Not much different than extract with steeping grains. Just a longer mash and tighter temp control.

solbes said:

Look up this thread if you want to go for it all, a Westy XII clone.
Many other good Dark Strong recipes out there too.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/

A couple of pointers.
-You will need authentic liquid yeast for the recipe (many Belgians use WYeast 3787). Build up a 1 gallon yeast starter, or easier yet make a smallish Patersbier to grow the yeast and wash yeast from that 5 gallon batch to pitch to the Dark Strong.
-Temperature control. A lot of good belgian brews start out in the mid 60's for a day or two, then ramp up slowly over the next 3-4 days to between 70 and 80 depending on style. You don't get the fusel alcohols early on in fermentation, but yet create the awesome esters that are critical to style. Make sure you chill the wort to the mid 60's BEFORE you pitch the yeast.
-You can make fantastic extract Belgians too. My 3rd batch ever was all extract and I have exactly 1 left. I will likely shed a tear when I finally consume it.
-If going all grain, I would suggest trying some partial mash beers or smaller all grain beers first. A 8-10% ABV Belgian is not the place to try out all grain for the first time IMO.
-Consider Brew in a Bag (BIAB) technique if you're unsure whether you might like all grain. Some people eventually switch to a traditional mash tun, some stay with BIAB. You can decide for yourself.
-Patience is key with Belgians. I particularly enjoy tasting a couple soon after carbing, and then consuming half the batch spaced out over the first year. The second half is awesome if you continue to age past a year.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the great info. You mentioned an extract that you enjoyed. Which in particular? I'd assume that the other forgoing tips regarding yeast & temp apply whether doing extract, partial mash, or all grain? Thanks for the recommendation for a gradual introduction as well.

Babybatch said:

Sounds interesting. Would a partial mash be a step between extract and all-grain?

Click to expand...

Yes. Sorry I wasn't more clear. A partial mash, is basically part mash(all grain) and part extract (extract brewing).

Basically, in extract brewing, you buy extract in the store that was made by a malter by mashing grains. This enables you to start your brewing process at the boil step. In All Grain brewing, we actually conduct the step that produces the extract - mashing. In partial mash brewing, you create SOME of the extract by mashing as you would in all grain, but you supplement it with extract you buy. The result is, you get a good feel for AG process, but you do not have to worry about producing all the wort from grain - so it's a lot less volume to work with, less equipment etc. Yet, you can produce better beer this way, the way you would with AG.

Two other nice features:

1. You can use some specialty grains that as an extract brewer, you cannot. Or at least you cannot use them for anything other than steeping for flavor and or color. With a partial mash, you can actually convert these sugars.

2. You can do still do partial boils if you don't have the equipment to be able to boil the full volume yet. Not something you can do in AG.

Also, you can conduct your partial mash and plan on adding a certain amount of DME, say 4lbs or whatever... YOu can have extra DME on hand and then take a gravity reading just before you boil. If you are lower than you'd expected, this allows you to increase the DME addition on the fly to account for the difference and still hit your targeted OG. Unlike extract brewing, AG and PM are a little unpredictable in terms of how much sugar you get out. You buy DME, you know how much is in there. When you mash grain, you will get a certain amount of sugar out of the grain known as efficiency. This varies for all kinds of reasons - temps, times, equip, process, crush of grain, etc.

2 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 19.9 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.0 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.5 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
2 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 19.9 %
3 lbs 4.8 oz Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 7 32.8 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 8 10.0 %
2.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 17.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.8 IBUs

1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) [124.21 ml] Yeast 11 -

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.3
Bitterness: 21.0 IBUs
Est Color: 17.5 SRM

Only difference between extract and this, is that you start out by mashing the base malt - pale 2 row and munich. Whatever specialty grains you normally steep, in this case special B, caramel, carapils... Gets mashed with the base malt grain! Then you take the wort you produce in the mash, start your boil and add the hops and malt extract as if you were extract brewing!

Definitely make a yeast starter for this guy and use a blow off tube, not an airlock

Check out deathbrewers sticky on easy partial mash - it's a GREAT way to get your feet wet.

psnydez86 said:

First you need to get setup for all grain. Look into making a mash tun out of either a rectangle cooler or tall 10 gallon water cooler. You will need to make or buy a false bottom or take a steel braided hose from lowes and convert it to the equivelant of a bazooka tube. As far a recipe 90% Belgian pilsner malt, 5% special b Carmel malt and 5% and a lb of dark Belgian candy syrup You can also look into NB's Belgian all grain recipes online as there recipes are pretty good and a good base to go off to formulate your own recipe. If your going high gravity on your Belgian or any style beer (1.060 OG and higher). Your gonna wanna get a kit for making yeast starters and consult mr.malty.com yeast calculator. If you haven't read how to brew yet by John Palmer you should do that also.

Cheers pat!

Click to expand...

I've been reading a tun of stuff. I just purchased John Palmer's book and it should arrive soon.

Babybatch said:

I've been reading a tun of stuff. I just purchased John Palmer's book and it should arrive soon.

Click to expand...

Great move! Check out brewstrong podcasts too.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

This is deathbrewers sticky on partial mash. Great way to get started.

J187 said:

Yes. Sorry I wasn't more clear. A partial mash, is basically part mash(all grain) and part extract (extract brewing).

Basically, in extract brewing, you buy extract in the store that was made by a malter by mashing grains. This enables you to start your brewing process at the boil step. In All Grain brewing, we actually conduct the step that produces the extract - mashing. In partial mash brewing, you create SOME of the extract by mashing as you would in all grain, but you supplement it with extract you buy. The result is, you get a good feel for AG process, but you do not have to worry about producing all the wort from grain - so it's a lot less volume to work with, less equipment etc. Yet, you can produce better beer this way, the way you would with AG.

Two other nice features:

1. You can use some specialty grains that as an extract brewer, you cannot. Or at least you cannot use them for anything other than steeping for flavor and or color. With a partial mash, you can actually convert these sugars.

2. You can do still do partial boils if you don't have the equipment to be able to boil the full volume yet. Not something you can do in AG.

Also, you can conduct your partial mash and plan on adding a certain amount of DME, say 4lbs or whatever... YOu can have extra DME on hand and then take a gravity reading just before you boil. If you are lower than you'd expected, this allows you to increase the DME addition on the fly to account for the difference and still hit your targeted OG. Unlike extract brewing, AG and PM are a little unpredictable in terms of how much sugar you get out. You buy DME, you know how much is in there. When you mash grain, you will get a certain amount of sugar out of the grain known as efficiency. This varies for all kinds of reasons - temps, times, equip, process, crush of grain, etc.

Click to expand...

You guys are awesome!! I tend to geek out on stuff and I can see that brewing will offer a rich array of information to absorb and apply!

I really appreciate the explanation of the partial mash. It really seems like the way to go for me since currently I limited on space. There seem to be some really nice advantages for me in the current digs.

1. 10 gallon cooler would be relegated to the community garage and could end up in a yard sale.
2. I'd want a burner which would also end up in the community garage.
3. I'd like to get my kegging set-up in place before going AG.
4. Money is tight with a baby on the way.
5. I still have a lot of leaning to do.

Still, I'd like to be able to do AG at some point. I tend to jump head first into stuff but here I feel that some time getting acclimated to the hobby/obsession is best. So I really appreciate the tempered replies. Especially so because I just don't see myself as a "beer club" kind of guy but I really do like the online community. Nevertheless, one day I would like to have...

1. A beer lab.
2. A working knowledge of yeast.
3. A 2 - 3 keg rotation.
4. A beer my picky friend would love.
5. An AG set-up.
6. A prohibition beer extract sign.
7. A fat brew diary.
8. A beer to go with each of my board games! (Any board gamers here?)

Some of these things will come sooner than others but I'll be glad to share.

Babybatch said:

You guys are awesome!! I tend to geek out on stuff and I can see that brewing will offer a rich array of information to absorb and apply!

I really appreciate the explanation of the partial mash. It really seems like the way to go for me since currently I limited on space. There seem to be some really nice advantages for me in the current digs.

1. 10 gallon cooler would be relegated to the community garage and could end up in a yard sale.
2. I'd want a burner which would also end up in the community garage.
3. I'd like to get my kegging set-up in place before going AG.
4. Money is tight with a baby on the way.
5. I still have a lot of leaning to do.

Still, I'd like to be able to do AG at some point. I tend to jump head first into stuff but here I feel that some time getting acclimated to the hobby/obsession is best. So I really appreciate the tempered replies. Especially so because I just don't see myself as a "beer club" kind of guy but I really do like the online community. Nevertheless, one day I would like to have...

1. A beer lab.
2. A working knowledge of yeast.
3. A 2 - 3 keg rotation.
4. A beer my picky friend would love.
5. An AG set-up.
6. A prohibition beer extract sign.
7. A fat brew diary.
8. A beer to go with each of my board games! (Any board gamers here?)

Some of these things will come sooner than others but I'll be glad to share.

Click to expand...

Sounds good. I have used that brew in a bag partial mash method with great success.

Haven't had any picky friends not like my Abbey's, even when they're green.somewhat..like 2 months old..I'm all about Quality Control over time kinda guy. I only do partial AG and my Abbey's turn out great minus one that will be great with enough time....Learn how to make your own Candi Sugar and Candi Syrup, it'll save you a ton of money, but add bold bodies, complexity, pump up your ABV, and just good strong beers that any Hop head will even crave. I actually use Caravienne as my main grain bill, it allows (so far as good) other grains (Choc malt and Special B and Belgian 2-row) and adjuncts to be safely added. Before planning that Beer Lab, be more focused on where you can safely store your secondary to age at a fairly consistant temp and away from baby stations of cleaning and sleeping...trust me; I have 2 great lil girls who love to try and get into everything that daddy is making.

I should probably mention that I aged that Dubbel like 6 months

J187 said:

I should probably mention that I aged that Dubbel like 6 months

Click to expand...

When you speak of aging is that to say in the bottle or second fermentation? Please pardon my ignorance.

Babybatch said:

Thanks for the great info. You mentioned an extract that you enjoyed. Which in particular? I'd assume that the other forgoing tips regarding yeast & temp apply whether doing extract, partial mash, or all grain? Thanks for the recommendation for a gradual introduction as well.

Click to expand...

Yes temp control and proper yeast pitch applies especially to Belgians, but are good techniques for any brew.

My extract batch just changed so much over time. 3 week primary and 6 week secondary. A little hot with a noticeable alcohol burn at 3 months. That faded by 6-8 months. By 12 months the flavors had melded quite a bit and was softer. By 18 months I started getting some really intense fruit flavors from the yeast (orange, pineapple) that weren't there initially. It's been about 27 months now with 1 bottle left.

That batch was really simple. 9 lbs of Pilsen LME, 1 lb of Rock Candi (kinda silly as table sugar is the same thing, but it was a kit), .5 lb of Carapils steeped. I made 0.5 lbs of amber invert syrup myself, but you could use a commercially available one to make it easier. Perle hops for bittering (1 oz 60 min) and 1 oz of Saaz at 30 min. 3787 yeast with a 1 gallon starter.

You could make somthing similar here in a Dark Strong with 9 lbs of pilsen LME (add half of it near the end of the boil). I would steep 1/2 lb of Special B prior to the boil. Add 2 lbs of Candi Syrup's D180 at somewhere between 2 minutes and flameout. Hop it to ~ 25-30 IBU. You should get an OG of somewhere in the 1.070-1.075 range with 5.5 gallons of wort.

If you wanted to try a partial mash, you could add 6 lbs of Pilsen LME instead of 9. And mash 4-5 lbs of 2 row (or Belgain Pils malt if you want to be really fancy) along with the 0.5 lb of Special B. Mash for 60 minutes at 151F with moderately soft water. If you use Belgian Pils grain, you should boil for 60 minutes to remove DMS precursers (can of corn taste). You'll need to read Palmers book regarding mashing if you are going to try this.

Well I think that I've decided to go with getting set up for a partial mash and using the recipe shared by J187.

J187 said:

2 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 19.9 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.0 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.5 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
2 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 19.9 %
3 lbs 4.8 oz Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 7 32.8 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 8 10.0 %
2.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 17.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.8 IBUs

1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) [124.21 ml] Yeast 11 -

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.3
Bitterness: 21.0 IBUs
Est Color: 17.5 SRM

Click to expand...

I tried pricing this out on Northern Brewer. Most of the ingredients that I could find seemed close to what J187 indicated in the recipe. Being a newbie it did raise some questions. My "How to Brew" book has not yet arrived so I tried finding answers on the internet.

With the ingredients there are some numbers that I found difficult to match exactly. For instance: 4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %

From what I can tell the SRM is the Standard reference number for determining beer color of the color an ingredient will impart.

I just assumed the "Grain 5" in that line was a label for that ingredient in that particular recipe which was possibly included as part of the recipe export from a software or something. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I could not figure out what the 2.5% was in reference to so I still need to learn that.

In the case of the above ingredient closest that I could find on Northern Brewer was this http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/belgian-special-b.html

Which is described as: 147° L. Extremely dark Belgian caramel malt with heavy caramel and raisin flavors.

I learned that the 147° L is the same as the SRM. So it would seem that this is quite a bit lower that what was noted in the recipe.

This was similar with just about all of the ingredients. Is this a significant issue or will I still be able to produce the desired brew?

Then there is the matter of the yeast starter.

solbes said:

A couple of pointers.
-You will need authentic liquid yeast for the recipe (many Belgians use WYeast 3787). Build up a 1 gallon yeast starter, or easier yet make a smallish Patersbier to grow the yeast and wash yeast from that 5 gallon batch to pitch to the Dark Strong.

Click to expand...

As solbes suggests I'm thinking of building a nice sized yeast starter. I like the idea of trying to do a yeast wash but I think that I will give that a go when I have a little more room to spread out my home brewery. I'd just like to clarify when he says "gallon" we are talking about the yeast produced from a gallon of wort? This being done in graduations. I'm thinking of 4 individual L yeast starters or is there a better way?

Thanks again for all of the help!

Babybatch said:

With the ingredients there are some numbers that I found difficult to match exactly. For instance: 4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %

From what I can tell the SRM is the Standard reference number for determining beer color of the color an ingredient will impart.

I just assumed the "Grain 5" in that line was a label for that ingredient in that particular recipe which was possibly included as part of the recipe export from a software or something. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I could not figure out what the 2.5% was in reference to so I still need to learn that.

In the case of the above ingredient closest that I could find on Northern Brewer was this http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/belgian-special-b.html

Which is described as: 147° L. Extremely dark Belgian caramel malt with heavy caramel and raisin flavors.

I learned that the 147° L is the same as the SRM. So it would seem that this is quite a bit lower that what was noted in the recipe.

This was similar with just about all of the ingredients. Is this a significant issue or will I still be able to produce the desired brew?

Click to expand...

Yes, the "Belgian Special B" is the same as "Special B Malt".

"Grain" is the type of ingredient. "5" is the ingredient number (note in the recipe that the ingredients are numbered in order); it's not important. The 2.5% is what percentage of the grain bill is that particular ingredient; useful for scaling, otherwise not important.

I wouldn't worry about the color difference between 180 SRM Special B and 147 L Special B. So the color might be off by a tiny bit.

Babybatch said:

As solbes suggests I'm thinking of building a nice sized yeast starter. I like the idea of trying to do a yeast wash but I think that I will give that a go when I have a little more room to spread out my home brewery. I'd just like to clarify when he says "gallon" we are talking about the yeast produced from a gallon of wort? This being done in graduations. I'm thinking of 4 individual L yeast starters or is there a better way?

Click to expand...

Yes, a X-liter starter is "the amount of yeast produced by fermenting X liters of wort", usually with ~1.040ish gravity simple, unhopped wort and one pack of whatever the appropriate liquid yeast is. With a 1-gallon starter, you probably want to cold-crash it in the fridge and decant off almost all of the wort, leaving only the yeast. (Leave enough wort to mix with the yeast so that it'll flow.) I'd probably try to make your whole starter in a single container, preferably a 1.5 gal+ container. (Or make a ~0.8 gal starter in a 1-gal container, which is easier to find, and accept that it's less than ideal.)

Yes, go buy a 1 gallon glass jug for making yeast starters. Usually with a screw top that accepts a slightly smaller bung and air lock. Note: for yeast starters skip the air lock and just sanitize some aluminum foil to cover. $4.99 at NB (see link below)

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/1-gallon-jug.html

I do agree ^^^ it would be slightly less volume than the capacity. In fact with 3787 yeast, it will likely need a blowoff tube anyway as it creates more Krausen than any other yeast I've seen. Give yourself 2 days to chill the starter beer/yeast after it ferments, so that you can decant off most of the starter beer into the sink. You want the yeast that has fallen out on the bottom.

Great! You have all been super helpful. When I do get around to doing the brew I'll post some pictures for you.

solbes said:

Yes, go buy a 1 gallon glass jug for making yeast starters. Usually with a screw top that accepts a slightly smaller bung and air lock. Note: for yeast starters skip the air lock and just sanitize some aluminum foil to cover. $4.99 at NB (see link below)

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/1-gallon-jug.html

I do agree ^^^ it would be slightly less volume than the capacity. In fact with 3787 yeast, it will likely need a blowoff tube anyway as it creates more Krausen than any other yeast I've seen. Give yourself 2 days to chill the starter beer/yeast after it ferments, so that you can decant off most of the starter beer into the sink. You want the yeast that has fallen out on the bottom.

Click to expand...

Should I slap that on a stir plate or just swirl it occasionally? I've read different methods. Being that the yeast is as aggressive as you say it seems like I could get by without a stir plate. (I might end up making one.)

If you have a stir plate (or could make one), you can reduce the amount of starter wort required. Usually ferments out faster too with all of the oxygen. The 1 gallon reco is a little casual. It should grow a lot of yeast. Some go by MrMalty, which you can use to compare stir plate vs occasional shaking vs no shake:

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I just do the occasional swirl with a foil top. I would like to get a stir plate someday, but it's always been a few priorities lower than other items.

solbes said:

If you have a stir plate (or could make one), you can reduce the amount of starter wort required. Usually ferments out faster too with all of the oxygen. The 1 gallon reco is a little casual. It should grow a lot of yeast. Some go by MrMalty, which you can use to compare stir plate vs occasional shaking vs no shake:

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I just do the occasional swirl with a foil top. I would like to get a stir plate someday, but it's always been a few priorities lower than other items.

Click to expand...

Cool. Thanks for the link. Looking at the bottles that you have noted in your sig I think that we could get to be fast friends so long as I don't bother you too much with questions. Speaking of which here are a couple more:

I've been studying the Easy Partial Mash thread and I curious about a step. I think that I have it clear but I just want to be sure.

1) When you add you base malts & specialty grains you cut the heat? and steep the grain bill right?


Not related:

2) I was also wondering what your take is on adding the Candi sugar to the primary after fermentation starts to die down? I read that this steps up the gravity gradually during fermentation (rather than put everything in the boil), providing yeast with a better environment, and better attenuation.

3) And finally a silly newbie question but... When I bottle these I should use priming sugar like any other beer right?

In extract with steeping grains, you are extracting color, aroma's/flavors, and sometimes fermentable sugars. Only fermentable sugars if the grain has been kilned which carmelizes some of the sugars in the grain. The hot water rinses the sugars into your wort with steeping.

Doing a partial mash, you are stepping into the world of starch conversion using base malts like 2 Row, Maris Otter (pale), Vienna, Munich, etc. You need the enzymes present in those grains to help convert the sugars in other grains with low enzyme potential. When these base malts are held at a specific temperature for a specific time (usually 148-158F for 30-90 minutes), you are unlocking the sugars within all grains (and base malt). This process is called mashing, and you have now moved well beyond "steeping". All grain is simply dropping the extract all together, but works in the same way.

Targeting a lower mash temp will give you more fermentable sugars (i.e. your FG will be lower, say 149 or 150). Targeting a higher mash temp will give you less fermentable sugar (FG will be higher, say 155 or 156). This is an additional level of control beyond what is available to extract brewers.

You want to heat the "strike water" above and beyond what you want your mash temp to be at. Because the relatively cool grains will lower the temp once its all mixed up in your kettle (or bag). I usually use this calculator and its dead on. Tells you how hot to heat your water before adding the grains. 5-10 minutes later the wort should be close to your target mash temp (needs to stabilize).

http://www.brewheads.com/strike.php

You don't have to cut the heat, but rather you want the temps to be as consistent as possible for the 60 minute mashing process. Some put them in a pre-warmed oven at low temp setting, others wrap the kettle in someting to insulate (no additional heat), while yet others heat larger batches on a very low setting.

Babybatch said:

2) I was also wondering what your take is on adding the Candi sugar to the primary after fermentation starts to die down? I read that this steps up the gravity gradually during fermentation (rather than put everything in the boil), providing yeast with a better environment, and better attenuation.

3) And finally a silly newbie question but... When I bottle these I should use priming sugar like any other beer right?

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2) I add my Candi sugar right to the boil. Usually in the last couple of minutes or right after flameout. I've never had an issue with achieving low FG, but I do use some yeast nutrient and pitch healthy starters.

3) Yup use corn sugar to prime just like anything else. Don't shoot for the moon on carbing Belgians though. 2 out of my 4 were overcarbed and it can be frustrating. If it sits for a really long secondary (more than 2.5 or 3 months), adding fresh yeast at bottling is a good idea.

Babybatch said:

1) When you add you base malts & specialty grains you cut the heat? and steep the grain bill right?

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With a single-infusion partial mash, which is a pretty common and simple mash, what you're doing is:
* Get the water up to a temperature
* Add grain, which knocks down the temperature
* "Steep" the grain at that lower temperature for a while, trying to keep the mixture from losing heat (dropping in temperature)
* Remove the grain

Steeping grain -- like in extract brewing -- is basically the same procedure, but without as much concern for "doing it right". For example, in a mash, you care about what temperature the mixture gets to after you add the grain. (Since grain is at room temp and the water isn't, it's some math to work out what temperature you water should start at.) You care about having the right kinds of malts so that enzymes actually get to do their jobs. Et cetera. With steeping, doing it "right" isn't as big an issue and the instructions are more lax. But fundamentally you're doing the same set of operations.

And yes, in both of them, you heat up water, kill the heat, add some grains, and wait. Also stir. Lots of stirring.

After reviewing and compiling some notes I realized that I have overlooked an important aspect for this Belgian that was mentioned earlier. I also realized that this may be the more difficult part of the process considering my limited space. Going to have to get a grasp on this!

Fermentation Temperature Control.

Time to study! Mentioned by solbes, psnydez86, and beergolf temp control during fermentation is something that I have not really investigated. How is this accomplished? I imagine that cooling it to the mid 60's for the first couple days as suggested will require refrigeration here in FL. Ramping to 70-80F over the course of 3-4 days does boggle my mind a little.

EDIT:

Okay...

This could work or something like it: Electric Fermentation Heater.

The digital temp controller is quite pricey but I think that I saw a thread on how to modify a household digital temp controller to this purpose.

Now I need to see if I can do what I want with a small fridge.

Reading this: http://byo.com/fruit-beer/item/1869-controlling-fermentation-temperature-techniques

I'll report my findings here for myself and posterity but as per usual I more than welcome all of your great advice.

EDIT:

I'm lining up buying one of these on Craigslist for $60:



Let's hope that it is in good working condition.

Yes, mini fridges work pretty well for brewing, provided they can do a couple of things: Fit a 6.5 gallon bucket/airlock, fit a 5 gallon carboy/airlock, and fit a 5 gallon corny keg (optional obviously). That should not be a problem at all with the fridge shown above. As far as I know, wine fridges will work fine for getting your fermenting temps down into the 60's, 50's, etc. If you ever wanted to brew lagers or hybrids like Kolsch's, a fridge that has more oomph to get into the 30's for lagering is handy, so take that for what it's worth. (My Alt is sitting at 34 right now getting all crisp and tasty).

What people sometimes do is make a swamp cooler of sorts or put the bucket in a bath of water and cycle through frozen water bottles. That can lower temps 5-10F from ambient.

Once your fermentation kicks off, you won't have a hard time at all bringing up the temps. Fermentation process itself can self raise the beer temps by 5-10 degrees easily. I don't think you'll need a heater in FL.

Or you could just buy a $15 Rubbermaid roughneck 20 or 32 gallon trash can like this one: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...ck-Trash-Can-1778013/100656030#specifications

Hey they block out light, doubles as a carboy carrier, can easily fit into a closet or in the corner in a garage, the heavier duty rough neck series also helps keep the inside cooler from the outside airtemp by about 2*, and you can place chem ice packs, insulate the lid, can always be modified by adding a computer fan in the top of the sidewall to help further cool, possibilities are endless.

solbes said:

Yes, mini fridges work pretty well for brewing, provided they can do a couple of things: Fit a 6.5 gallon bucket/airlock, fit a 5 gallon carboy/airlock, and fit a 5 gallon corny keg (optional obviously). That should not be a problem at all with the fridge shown above. As far as I know, wine fridges will work fine for getting your fermenting temps down into the 60's, 50's, etc. If you ever wanted to brew lagers or hybrids like Kolsch's, a fridge that has more oomph to get into the 30's for lagering is handy, so take that for what it's worth. (My Alt is sitting at 34 right now getting all crisp and tasty).

What people sometimes do is make a swamp cooler of sorts or put the bucket in a bath of water and cycle through frozen water bottles. That can lower temps 5-10F from ambient.

Once your fermentation kicks off, you won't have a hard time at all bringing up the temps. Fermentation process itself can self raise the beer temps by 5-10 degrees easily. I don't think you'll need a heater in FL.

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Yeah. Now that I think about it a heater is definitely not needed. I'm leaning towards the wine cooler or mini fridge route for now. Add a homemade or commercial thermostat controller and I think that I have what I'll need. During the warmer fermentation phase if it gets too hot in there the cooler will kick in and regulate.

J187 said:

2 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 19.9 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.0 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.5 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
2 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 19.9 %
3 lbs 4.8 oz Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 7 32.8 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 8 10.0 %
2.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 17.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) [124.21 ml] Yeast 11

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I've shopped this recipe on Northern Brewer and it comes to $51.45 + shipping. I'm likely to mix and match purchases between LHBS & online retailers. I'm not stuck on Northern Brewer either. With that said I'm still working on getting a handle on ingredients. It seems like there is quite a selection out there. Below I have listen the ingredient to the recipe as I have found them on Northern Brewer.

Are these comparable ingredients? Is there any ingredient that should be swapped out? Are any of these ingredient just plain the wrong thing?

Malteurop American 2-Row Pale Malt
Belgian Munich Malt
Briess Carapils
Briess Caramel 20L
Belgian Special B
Briess Organic Light DME
Northern Brewer Organic Light Malt Syrup
Brun Fonce Soft Candi Sugar - 1 lb.
US Saaz Hop Pellets 1 oz
German Hallertau Hop Pellets 1 oz.
Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale

Babybatch said:

I've shopped this recipe on Northern Brewer and it comes to $51.45 + shipping. I'm likely to mix and match purchases between LHBS & online retailers. I'm not stuck on Northern Brewer either. With that said I'm still working on getting a handle on ingredients. It seems like there is quite a selection out there. Below I have listen the ingredient to the recipe as I have found them on Northern Brewer.

Are these comparable ingredients? Is there any ingredient that should be swapped out? Are any of these ingredient just plain the wrong thing?

Malteurop American 2-Row Pale Malt
Belgian Munich Malt
Briess Carapils
Briess Caramel 20L
Belgian Special B
Briess Organic Light DME
Northern Brewer Organic Light Malt Syrup
Brun Fonce Soft Candi Sugar - 1 lb.
US Saaz Hop Pellets 1 oz
German Hallertau Hop Pellets 1 oz.
Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale

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Pretty much the same thing. Although, do you realize you only 1 oz of saaz there? You may have done that on purpose, just want to make sure.

The secret to my brew was the cherries in secondary! Cherries in secondary - 2.5lbs sweet, 2.5lbs sour! Racked onto the cherries after primary for a couple more weeks! Use a blowoff rather than airlock - she's a big beer.

Remember too, it's not uncommon for bigger, more complex beers to cost a bit more. These are the beers you often pay $7-10 a bomber for..

J187 said:

Pretty much the same thing. Although, do you realize you only 1 oz of saaz there? You may have done that on purpose, just want to make sure.

The secret to my brew was the cherries in secondary! Cherries in secondary - 2.5lbs sweet, 2.5lbs sour! Racked onto the cherries after primary for a couple more weeks! Use a blowoff rather than airlock - she's a big beer.

Remember too, it's not uncommon for bigger, more complex beers to cost a bit more. These are the beers you often pay $7-10 a bomber for..

Click to expand...

Yeah. The 1 oz Saaz is the increment that NB sells it in. I definitely have 2 oz in my shopping cart.

Yes. I was wondering about the "cherry" in the Cherry Dubbel. Are these dried cherries? Could you drop me a link to something comparable to what you used?

Blowoff is definitely in the works.

The price for this is just fine for me. I've payed the $7-$10 for numerous bombers. They are waiting to be re-filled.

I know that this is a tad ambitious for my first batch ever but that's why I'm taking my time planning it out. PLUS you guys have been a huge help and encouragement. Thanks again and again.

Babybatch said:

Yeah. The 1 oz Saaz is the increment that NB sells it in. I definitely have 2 oz in my shopping cart.

Yes. I was wondering about the "cherry" in the Cherry Dubbel. Are these dried cherries? Could you drop me a link to something comparable to what you used?

Blowoff is definitely in the works.

The price for this is just fine for me. I've payed the $7-$10 for numerous bombers. They are waiting to be re-filled.

I know that this is a tad ambitious for my first batch ever but that's why I'm taking my time planning it out. PLUS you guys have been a huge help and encouragement. Thanks again and again.

Click to expand...

Alright. I've read up on how others have added cheeery cherry to their brews. It seems like there are a number of different ways that you can approach this.

Fresh, frozen, canned, dried, juice, boiled, pureed. I've also noted that there are mixed reviews on racking from the secondary. Some say that it has clogged their siphon others have had no problems at all.

To me the cleanest method seems to be using the juice. Either making your own from fresh or using something like a Trader Joe's or Knudsen product. Then reducing it over heat to concentrate the flavors and then adding it to the secondary.

I think that will be the method I go with unless there is some flaw in that process that I am missing?

I'm getting closer to getting this brew underway. Just need to get a couple things lined up and ready to go.

• Mini Fridge - (Been shopping CL.)
• Build my Temp Controller (Ordered the main part from China.)
• Build Stir plate. (I might actually skip this.)
• Buy ingredients.

I was wondering... If I wanted to switch out the Candi Sugar with Candi Syrup would 1Lb of Sugar be the same as 1Lb of syrup? I would seem that the syrup would be more concentrated.

Babybatch said:

I was wondering... If I wanted to switch out the Candi Sugar with Candi Syrup would 1Lb of Sugar be the same as 1Lb of syrup? I would seem that the syrup would be more concentrated.

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Less actually because of the water addition at the end of the process. The CandySyrup brand of D45, D90, D180, etc has 32 ppg, or points per pound per gallon. So if you are making a 5 gallon batch you get: 32 x 1 lb / 5 gallons = 6.4 point addition. How is that interpreted? Lets say your Belgian had a gravity before adding sugar of 1.065. The sugar addition would make it: 1.065 + .0064 = 1.0714.

Processed regular cane or beet sugar has 46 ppg. Dextrose, or corn sugar, also has 46 ppg. I've seen some candi sugar (granular or crystalized) numbers in the 38 ppg range. The differences between products are going to be a 1.5-2.5 point difference in your final gravity at most.

I still like the Candi Syrup stuff. Or make your own, which I also do. The clear belgian candi sugar (crystals) are not an upgrade over regular table sugar IMO. Not sure about the darker crystalized candi sugars, but I tend to believe it would not add much over regular table sugar either, besides some color.

Reducing over heat means cooking. Cooked fruit has a different flavor than fresh. The difference between freezer jam and canned jam. Keep this in mind when making your final decision. I would personally go with whole frozen and thawed fruit in a paint strainer bag in secondary. The freezing and thawing caused the cells to rupture and the paint strainer bag is tight enough to contain even the smallest sized particles.

Stir plates can be easy, fun, and cheap to make. Something to fill in the time while you're waiting

Clear candi sugar/rocks can be subbed with regular table sugar. I'm not certain on the substitution amount but generally syrup has less sugar than solid because it contains water. To venture a guess, I would say 1 lb candi syrup would be equal to 3/4 lb table sugar.