just freaking pissed.stupid pump

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
itsratso

itsratso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
308
Reaction score
38
Location
berwyn
I have used my pump about 7 times now. 3 times it airlocked. today is the first time I have not been able to fix it. I have burns on both arms (again from this stupid thing) and lost half my beer on my kitchen floor. eventually I just put a carboy of hot wort into my freezer to chill overnite, any guesses to how that will turn out? :mad: the pump is a chugger with the steel head. I am seriously regretting buying this stupid thing. if these things are so prone to airlocking and you are dealing with BOILING LIQUID when trying to get them to run than they are not a convenience they are just dangerous. btw I have an elaborate ritual I go through to keep the pump from getting air into it and have read every "tip" I can find. I practically make love to this goddam thing before using it. it is just ridiculous. if anyone is thinking about getting one take it from me - DO NOT get rid of your old cooling setup for a few months afterward. you may regret it. :mad::mad:
 
Hmmm... I haven't had a problem since adding a air purge valve. You do have an air purge valve, right?
What is the orientation pf the pump and head?
What size hose and valves?
How far below the bottom of the pot is it?

You were just kidding about pumping wort while it is actually boiling right?
 
Hmmm...I actually read somewhere that recirculating boiling wort was a good way to sanitize the pump and lines before pumping into the fermenter after cooldown. I've done that for my last 3 batches. Granted it pumped slower but it did pump.

If you don't do this how do you effectively sanitize your pump and lines before pumping the wort into the fermenter?

Regards,
Chris
 
actually there was a thread on here from the manufacturer a while ago talking about temps for pumping saying the pumps routinely pump temps way above boiling ( something like 500F) but it would cost a lot of money to get them certified for higher temp ranges. yes I pump boiling temps to sterilize and there is many others here who do.

edit: no I dont have a purge valve, that is something I should look in to. do you use it on the in or out side? anyone have a linky for one?
 
I bet your beer will turn out fine chillin in the freezer...just keep an eye on the stuff in your freezer...large quantities of hot stuff in an enclosed space can heat up things around it.

Anyway.... you could just use an immersion chiller...and drop the lines into a bucket of ice water with your pump. It would run colder than tap water, use less water, and if heat was what ailed your pump, that would solve that issue as well.

I like immersion chillers...cools my wort to 62F in under 20 minutes. Just get one sized appropriately for your batch size. And they are super easy to sanitize.
 
I've seen most pumps rated for 250 degrees not sure about 500. But seeing as water boils at 212 these pumps can certainly handle pumping boiling wort as I've successfully done the last 3 times.

I use my pump to first pump the water from the HLT to the mash tun. Gravity drain the mash to the boil kettle. Then during the last 15 minutes of the boil I switch the pump on and recirculate the wort to sanitize it and the lines. At flameout I continue the recirculation with the pump to accelerate cooling. Once I hit 80 degrees I lift the out line coming off the pump and drop it into the fermenter being sure to let it splash in to aerate.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Home Brew mobile app
 
Air purge valve? More info on this would be awesome.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to use a pump with 1/2" silicone tubing and 1/2" barbs without quick disconnects of any kind, or will the pressure force the hose off of the barbs?
 
DarkUncle said:
I've seen most pumps rated for 250 degrees not sure about 500. But seeing as water boils at 212 these pumps can certainly handle pumping boiling wort as I've successfully done the last 3 times.

I use my pump to first pump the water from the HLT to the mash tun. Gravity drain the mash to the boil kettle. Then during the last 15 minutes of the boil I switch the pump on and recirculate the wort to sanitize it and the lines. At flameout I continue the recirculation with the pump to accelerate cooling. Once I hit 80 degrees I lift the out line coming off the pump and drop it into the fermenter being sure to let it splash in to aerate.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Home Brew mobile app
Click to expand...

Not to nit-pick, but wort actually boils at 214-220 depending on how much sugar is in it. Sugar raises the boiling point of water.
 
stpug said:
Air purge valve? More info on this would be awesome.
Click to expand...

It's nothing more than putting a T on the output of the pump. The inline of the T is connected to the pump out then the other side to the kettle you're pumping to. The other outlet of T is connected to a ball valve.

You prime your pump, open the ball valve to bleed air then close it. You can also use it to pull samples if need be.

Like this:
pump1.jpg
 
I know what it is but am having probs finding one. does anyone have a link?
 
insanim8er said:
It's nothing more than putting a T on the output of the pump. The inline of the T is connected to the pump out then the other side to the kettle you're pumping to. The other outlet of T is connected to a ball valve.

You prime your pump, open the ball valve to bleed air then close it. You can also use it to pull samples if need be.

Like this:
pump1.jpg
Click to expand...

Excellent! Thanks for the description and the photo makes it very easy to see.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have a chugger too. I'm able to pump boiling wort... It's how I sanitize as someone else said above. I can't run the pump wide open (I think it sucks in too many air bubbles from the boil). but by closing the output side ball valve about 1/2 way, it runs great.
 
I am not knocking the air purge valve (because it very well could fix your problem) but I do not need one and I know tons of people do not use them. I think there has to be a problem with either a) the way you prime your pump b) the way you maintain your prime or c) the configuration of your setup. The easiest one to rule out is C. If you have had the same setup the same each brewday and have not had problems everytime cross "C" off your list. When I first started using a pump I remember that when I found out how to prime and maintain a prime it changed my life. I am pretty sure you know how to prime your pump because you have used it successfully a few times. Maintaining a prime gave me a some trouble early in my brewing. I did not know you could prime the pump, turn the pump on and run it and close vale on the outlet side. Once I learned this is made it so much easier. The valve on the outlet side is a MUST! You might not need a air purge valve but as far as I am concerned yo gotta have a ball valve. One I figured out I was loosing my prime by liquid and air going back into the pump my problems were history! Good luck, tell us about your configuration a bit more and someone will fix it and you can enjoy using a chuggerpump they are amazing!!!
 
savannahbrew said:
I am not knocking the air purge valve (because it very well could fix your problem) but I do not need one and I know tons of people do not use them.
Click to expand...

I have two march pumps. I have both used and not used the purge. Having it makes life easier. I also have the morebeer quick disconnects. If I don't have the purge installed, I find myself disconnecting the outlet line purging then reattaching.

For a couple bucks and two minutes to assemble, it's worth it.

But a question to ask is how are your pump mounted? The vapor can cause issue the head is not properly orientated.
 
Boiling wort = bubbles... sucking bubbles into the intake = cavitation.
You don't need to circulate boiling wort to sanitize the pump. It will be sanitized instantly by recirculating wort that is not actually a rolling boil. Turn off heat, wait a few seconds, and then start the re-circulation.
 
Right. You can't pump boiling wort. What you want to do is pump near boiling wort and do it slowly with the pump valve cracked to about 1/3rd open or the suction on the inlet side will boil the 211F wort. The further away from 212F it gets, the faster you can pump.
 
Bobby_M said:
Right. You can't pump boiling wort. What you want to do is pump near boiling wort and do it slowly with the pump valve cracked to about 1/3rd open or the suction on the inlet side will boil the 211F wort. The further away from 212F it gets, the faster you can pump.
Click to expand...

You can't pump boiling wort or you shouldn't? Because I can assure you my pump is definitely pumping it.

With that said, are you saying that I shouldn't turn that pump on until after flameout? Will the wort be hot enough to sanitize the pump and lines without being at boiling temps? In all honesty I'd rather not pump while it's boiling because it does struggle a bit while doing so.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N900V using Home Brew mobile app
 
itsratso said:
I have used my pump about 7 times now. 3 times it airlocked. today is the first time I have not been able to fix it. I have burns on both arms (again from this stupid thing) and lost half my beer on my kitchen floor. eventually I just put a carboy of hot wort into my freezer to chill overnite, any guesses to how that will turn out? :mad: the pump is a chugger with the steel head. I am seriously regretting buying this stupid thing. if these things are so prone to airlocking and you are dealing with BOILING LIQUID when trying to get them to run than they are not a convenience they are just dangerous. btw I have an elaborate ritual I go through to keep the pump from getting air into it and have read every "tip" I can find. I practically make love to this goddam thing before using it. it is just ridiculous. if anyone is thinking about getting one take it from me - DO NOT get rid of your old cooling setup for a few months afterward. you may regret it. :mad::mad:
Click to expand...
I would say that you more likely are doing something wrong to have such problems because this is the first I've heard of someone having issues if they prime the pump correctly (they are not self priming)
 
DarkUncle said:
You can't pump boiling wort or you shouldn't? Because I can assure you my pump is definitely pumping it.

With that said, are you saying that I shouldn't turn that pump on until after flameout? Will the wort be hot enough to sanitize the pump and lines without being at boiling temps? In all honesty I'd rather not pump while it's boiling because it does struggle a bit while doing so.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N900V using Home Brew mobile app
Click to expand...
I dont know guys, both my little $20-30 tan and topsflo plastic pumps pump hot wort while boiling just fine... I use one the recirculate wort and keep it flowing through my hop cup and to sterilize my plate chiller while the heat is still on...
if a big expensive stainless pump like the chugger cant handle the temps then thats pretty sad.
 
OP, I do not have advice to offer as I just bought a pump the other day. This makes me nervous and I wonder if I should return it. :( I've subscribed to continue reading future suggestions; I've read everything thus far. I hope this gets better for you and it turns out to be just a user error deal. No offense. :)
 
Hello said:
OP, I do not have advice to offer as I just bought a pump the other day. This makes me nervous and I wonder if I should return it. :( I've subscribed to continue reading future suggestions; I've read everything thus far. I hope this gets better for you and it turns out to be just a user error deal. No offense. :)
Click to expand...

there are likely at least a hundred members here using these types of pumps....I wouldnt let one bad review make your decision for you... I dont see how it wasnt pumping if it was mounted below the boil kettle and properly primed...
 
it's not that hard to prime a pump. i prefill my lines with water before even hooking them to my kettle to try to keep any air out of them before hooking them up to the pump. i raise my pump to the same level as the line inlet when connecting them so that dropping the line down doesn't let in any air. the pump is 3 feet lower than my kettle. do you have to go through all these precautions? it seems as if i am doing MORE than enough to properly prime the pump. i use the same hi temp 1/2 lines that everyone else uses. i am fully aware that not everyone has these problems but there are a whole lot of threads that indicate that many do. i am also not saying to not buy one, but i certainly stick with what i was saying earlier - don't get rid of your immersion chiller before you are sure the pump is working well for you. i have ordered the parts for a bleeder valve - i hope that will help some.
 
A couple of things to try that gave me fits in the beginning when I first incorporated my Chugger.

- Make sure the magnetic wheel that drives the pump impeller is able to move freely (but not too far back). When I installed my pump in the box, I must have slid the magnetic wheel too far forward on the shaft and it was binding in the pump housing. It would spin without any load, but once it had to pump liquid, it would stop. Moved it back a couple of mm and it started working.

- Try restricting the ball valve on the outflow end of your pump a bit. My kettle arrangement must not be free flowing enough to maintain a prime. I have a 1/2" od dip tube on the inside going into a 3 piece ball valve with a 90 degree elbow and quick disconnect on the outside. I imagine things would improve if I removed the dip tube and elbow, but I can compensate by restricting the outflow after the pump.

Here's another example of the bleed valve with the pump head in a horizontal position. Good luck!

ng7odw.jpg
 
augiedoggy said:
Actually it boils at different temps depending on what altitude above (or below) sea level your at...
Click to expand...

Right... So does water. My water boiling temp (Oregon maybe 200ft above sea) is 212. My wort boils at 212 verified by my Thermapen with a certified calibration of 212 and 32, and I've done some very high gravity beer.
 
itsratso:

Is your pump an inline or center inlet?

Can you post a photo showing how your pump looks when you use it. Meaning how you mount it what direction the head is...etc.

You use 1/2" ID hose, but what type of connections do you use?

I have two 815 march pumps. The inline is always trouble free for me, but the center inlet can be a pita sometimes. The issue I have is restriction from my morebeer quick disconnects. The center inlet is 3/4 reduced to 1/2 to my hose that is then reduced because of the connectors.

The main issues with cavitation are:

wrong orientation of the head — this causes the air bubbles and vapor from boiling water to fill the propeller with air. If properly orientated, the propeller will be submerged in liquid. If you mount the motor vertical, it should always be down with the head above (if it's not like this, try running it that way) the other way is where the motor is horizontal and the outlet points up)

Restriction — like I mentioned above

And improper priming — the bleeder valve helps this, but it sounds like you're priming ok too.

Also, how does the pump run with cold water?
 
i have the inline one (not center inlet). I use camlocks from bobby (the big ones). I have no restrictions. I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly/weakly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.

edit: :)
 
itsratso said:
i have inline one (not center inlet). I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.
Click to expand...

You must bleed the air from the pump to prime it. If there is air in the pump to begin with, it won't pull. It is not a "positive displacement" pump, such as a peristaltic.

If you can disconnect the output tubing and lower that to the floor, gravity will prime the pump for you. If you cannot, or don't want to, lower the output tubing, you need that bleeder valve.
 
I have 2 center inlet chugger's, and I pump boiling wort every time to whirlpool. I get a great whirlpool, and do not have any problems priming on the fly without any purge valves.

I can't run the pump full bore with boiling wort, I need to limit the output a little or it squeals like a stuck pig.

What does the entire flow path look like? Any restrictions right at the pump head? Maybe an air leak somewhere that is letting air in? Problems with room temperature liquid?

Lots of members use the pump you are having trouble with, so have faith that you can get it working well.
 
itsratso said:
i have inline one (not center inlet). I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.
Click to expand...


Two things;

These pumps need to have restriction on the outlet or they cavitate, esp. with boiling wort. Period. I don't remember you mentioning that.

Chuggers had some problems with the first run of their product, so depending on when you bought it (i.e. not recently) you might want to contact them. There are plenty of threads out there with posts by frustrated people about these pumps.
 
broadbill said:
Two things;

These pumps need to have restriction on the outlet or they cavitate, esp. with boiling wort. Period. I don't remember you mentioning that.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was going to say. I keep the inlet valve open all the way, and fully open the outlet valve only while the head is being flooded. When I start running the pump, I partially close the outlet valve to create the necessary restriction. This does the trick 90% of the time.

The other 10% of the time I have to open the bleeder valve with the pump running and that clears out any air.
 
insanim8er said:
Then why does my thermapen read 212 at boiling?
Click to expand...

Probably because it doesn't read over 212?
I verified my temps with not only my brewing thermometer (calibrated in boiling water), but my NSF rated meat thermometer...that reads from 30-220F. And I have calibrated it with both a freeze test, and a boil test. I can assure you, sugar raises the boiling point of water.

Here's the wiki article for further reading if you wish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation
 
Crafty_Brewer said:
Probably because it doesn't read over 212?
I verified my temps with not only my brewing thermometer (calibrated in boiling water), but my NSF rated meat thermometer...that reads from 30-220F. And I have calibrated it with both a freeze test, and a boil test. I can assure you, sugar raises the boiling point of water.

Here's the wiki article for further reading if you wish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation
Click to expand...

Thermapen reads well over 500f

I don't dispute sugar rises the boiling point, but I doubt by that much.
 
I bought a chugger a few batches ago. Bottom line is by having a bleed valve on the inlet side you will not have problems with priming.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 

Similar threads

major.noms
Robobrew 35L V3 (Gen 3.1.1) - Pump issues
Replies
0
Views
134
major.noms
major.noms
bf514921
Pump Mounting hardware or brackets
Replies
16
Views
693
bf514921
bf514921
Gadjobrinus
March 815 pumps - still a standard?
Replies
13
Views
610
Yesfan
Yesfan
apache_brew
Inline CIP pump
Replies
2
Views
418
cfrazier77
cfrazier77
F
can i leave water in my all in one for 48 hours.
Replies
15
Views
603
JAReeves
JAReeves
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top