just freaking pissed.stupid pump

[insanim8er]

Actually it boils at different temps depending on what altitude above (or below) sea level your at...

Right... So does water. My water boiling temp (Oregon maybe 200ft above sea) is 212. My wort boils at 212 verified by my Thermapen with a certified calibration of 212 and 32, and I've done some very high gravity beer.

 

[insanim8er]

itsratso:

Is your pump an inline or center inlet?

Can you post a photo showing how your pump looks when you use it. Meaning how you mount it what direction the head is...etc.

You use 1/2" ID hose, but what type of connections do you use?

I have two 815 march pumps. The inline is always trouble free for me, but the center inlet can be a pita sometimes. The issue I have is restriction from my morebeer quick disconnects. The center inlet is 3/4 reduced to 1/2 to my hose that is then reduced because of the connectors.

The main issues with cavitation are:

wrong orientation of the head — this causes the air bubbles and vapor from boiling water to fill the propeller with air. If properly orientated, the propeller will be submerged in liquid. If you mount the motor vertical, it should always be down with the head above (if it's not like this, try running it that way) the other way is where the motor is horizontal and the outlet points up)

Restriction — like I mentioned above

And improper priming — the bleeder valve helps this, but it sounds like you're priming ok too.

Also, how does the pump run with cold water?

 

[itsratso]

i have the inline one (not center inlet). I use camlocks from bobby (the big ones). I have no restrictions. I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly/weakly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.

edit:

 

[passedpawn]

i have inline one (not center inlet). I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.

You must bleed the air from the pump to prime it. If there is air in the pump to begin with, it won't pull. It is not a "positive displacement" pump, such as a peristaltic.

If you can disconnect the output tubing and lower that to the floor, gravity will prime the pump for you. If you cannot, or don't want to, lower the output tubing, you need that bleeder valve.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I have 2 center inlet chugger's, and I pump boiling wort every time to whirlpool. I get a great whirlpool, and do not have any problems priming on the fly without any purge valves.

I can't run the pump full bore with boiling wort, I need to limit the output a little or it squeals like a stuck pig.

What does the entire flow path look like? Any restrictions right at the pump head? Maybe an air leak somewhere that is letting air in? Problems with room temperature liquid?

Lots of members use the pump you are having trouble with, so have faith that you can get it working well.

 

[broadbill]

i have inline one (not center inlet). I have tried it pointing every which way possible. after reading all the posts above I think you hit on the same conclusion that I have come to. I literally during the brew-session-that-will-not-be-spoken-of unhooked and bled the air out of the line probably 20 or more times (hence the 2 gallons of beer on my floor). I am thinking there is no way the pump was airlocked all those times. I am wondering if because of the high temp of the wort that the pump was pumping, only so slowly that I could not tell it was working. I recirculate out of my kettle valve 1, through the pump and chiller and back into the kettle valve 2. valve 2 is set up to whirlpool and I saw no whirlpool at all. I am starting to think if I could have dunked my whole arm into the kettle (which I might as well have, I couldn't have gotten burned much more) and felt valve 2 that I would have felt the pump flow. I am thinking I will try to throttle valve 2 return side more next time and see if I can get a better flow. I will also have a bleeder valve. and I have also ordered (seriously) a pair of elbow length silicon oven gloves so that next time I can actually dunk my whole arm into the kettle. and if all this fails I will see how far I can throw this pump down the street and run it over with my ****ing car.

Two things;

These pumps need to have restriction on the outlet or they cavitate, esp. with boiling wort. Period. I don't remember you mentioning that.

Chuggers had some problems with the first run of their product, so depending on when you bought it (i.e. not recently) you might want to contact them. There are plenty of threads out there with posts by frustrated people about these pumps.

 

[JonM]

Two things;

These pumps need to have restriction on the outlet or they cavitate, esp. with boiling wort. Period. I don't remember you mentioning that.

This is exactly what I was going to say. I keep the inlet valve open all the way, and fully open the outlet valve only while the head is being flooded. When I start running the pump, I partially close the outlet valve to create the necessary restriction. This does the trick 90% of the time.

The other 10% of the time I have to open the bleeder valve with the pump running and that clears out any air.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

Then why does my thermapen read 212 at boiling?

Probably because it doesn't read over 212?
I verified my temps with not only my brewing thermometer (calibrated in boiling water), but my NSF rated meat thermometer...that reads from 30-220F. And I have calibrated it with both a freeze test, and a boil test. I can assure you, sugar raises the boiling point of water.

Here's the wiki article for further reading if you wish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation

 

[insanim8er]

Probably because it doesn't read over 212?
I verified my temps with not only my brewing thermometer (calibrated in boiling water), but my NSF rated meat thermometer...that reads from 30-220F. And I have calibrated it with both a freeze test, and a boil test. I can assure you, sugar raises the boiling point of water.

Here's the wiki article for further reading if you wish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation

Thermapen reads well over 500f

I don't dispute sugar rises the boiling point, but I doubt by that much.

 

[brewmathew]

I bought a chugger a few batches ago. Bottom line is by having a bleed valve on the inlet side you will not have problems with priming.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[acidrain]

I bought a chugger a few batches ago. Bottom line is by having a bleed valve on the inlet side you will not have problems with priming.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Outlet side. If you only bleed to the inlet side, the air in the pump is not bled.

 

[brewmathew]

Inlet side has worked best. You can only bleed the outlet side if the pump is on and you will lose more fluid.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[insanim8er]

Inlet side has worked best. You can only bleed the outlet side if the pump is on and you will lose more fluid.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Huh? Why would the pump have to be on? I'd put it on the outlet, so your pump head is full.

I see no reason to have the pump on since I could gravity transfer through a pump with out having it on.

 

[JonM]

Having a bleeder valve on the inlet side does not compute.

 

[GotPushrods]

Probably because it doesn't read over 212?
I verified my temps with not only my brewing thermometer (calibrated in boiling water), but my NSF rated meat thermometer...that reads from 30-220F. And I have calibrated it with both a freeze test, and a boil test. I can assure you, sugar raises the boiling point of water.

Here's the wiki article for further reading if you wish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation

If your thermometer reads over 213, at sea level, while brewing beer, you have a thermometer problem.

Most worts are 10-15% sugar by weight. A huge RIS might be 20%. The boiling point will not get past 215*F until about 40% sugar by weight.

It is NOT linear. Once you boil off 80-90% of the water the temperature starts to shoot up VERY quickly, but not until then.

The sugar concentrations of typical wort will not materially affect the boiling point. Your elevation will actually make a bigger difference.


Now as for the OPs problems.... I can recirculate boiling wort with my Chugger no problem. It makes some different noises and is pumping hundreds of tiny bubbles, but it keeps it moving just fine.

I always open all valves and flood the head completely before turning the pump on -- never had a problem.

 

[eric19312]

Having a bleeder valve on the inlet side does not compute.

it does for morebeer:
http://morebeer.com/products/march-pump-assembly.html

 

[insanim8er]

it does for morebeer:
http://morebeer.com/products/march-pump-assembly.html

Lol a photo means nothing. It was probably assembled by the photographer. I remember the $900 sabco chill wizard had some weird misconfiguration in the professional photo of it...

Regardless, Do what works for you.

Edit: I did read their FAQ:

Priming pumps made easy
Some people wonder why we put the “priming tee” on the inlet rather than the outlet. The priming ball valve is there to allow air pockets out, and if it is positioned after the pump head, the air bubbles would get caught in the pump head and continue to cavitate.

So that set-up is how they ship it, but I still disagree because my set up has enough pressure to almost push the liquid into the second kettle. The issue is I get back pressure build up on the out side. With the valve on the out side, it floods the head for me. If I had it on the other side, it would shoot out wort and still not flood my head because of the pressure build up by the 10+ gal of liquid.

So again do what works for you.

 

[JonM]

Plus, I have my pump set up with the inlet pointing down and the outlet pointing up. In that configuration, I can't imagine how air would get out below the pump head.

 

[HappiBrew]

I dont know guys, both my little $20-30 tan and topsflo plastic pumps pump hot wort while boiling just fine... I use one the recirculate wort and keep it flowing through my hop cup and to sterilize my plate chiller while the heat is still on...
if a big expensive stainless pump like the chugger cant handle the temps then thats pretty sad.

What kind of pump do you use? I'm not familiar with those and a google search didn't turn up much? Got a link to where you got them? By the way, I was just in North Tonawanda with my wife for a Roller Derby bout. It's a pretty cool little town.

 

[insanim8er]

What kind of pump do you use? I'm not familiar with those and a google search didn't turn up much? Got a link to where you got them? By the way, I was just in North Tonawanda with my wife for a Roller Derby bout. It's a pretty cool little town.

They sell on amazon for cheap. They're popular over seas.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6619