Should I attemp to lower my FG?

Hi all,
Need your expertise as usual. I have DFH 60 Minute IPA clone that has been in primary for 2 weeks. My OG was 1.062 which was right on the money and after 2 weeks it is at 1.020. I used Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale yeast with a 1 liter starter.

When I put this in primary I had no activity in the airlock after 2 days so I pulled the lid to see what was going on and I had a very healthy krausen. Even though I never had any activity in the airlock when I pulled the lid off the bucket today you could see the remains of the krausen on the lid and it looked like it had fermented out.

I checked the gravity and it was 1.020. 1.020 is almost in the range of attenuation for this strain and the expected gravity was 1.018.

The gravity sample tasted really good so should I even mess with it? I am used to using Wyeast 1056 American Ale and getting down around 1.010 - 1.014.

I also recently learned about Mr Malty and according to their pitch rate calculator I should have pitched a 1.5 liter starter so I may have under pitched a little.

So what would you guys do?
Leave it alone and go ahead and dryhop it?
Stir it up a little and check it again in a couple of days?
Maybe pitch a little more yeast?

Also what do you do when the yeast you choose wont attenuate the beer to the gravity you want. Do you just make a bigger starter? Mr Malty doesn't seem to take into account the attenuation profile of the yeast.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Oh almost forgot. I know you guys will ask about my temps and the actual temp of the wort was between 67 and 71 the entire time so there are no temperature issues.

I would try rousing the yeast and let it ferment around 70F for a few days and then check gravity. If this was all grain, try mashing at a lower temp next time too.

was it an extract brew? if it was, 1.020 might be your FG. you could try rousing and warming, seeing if that gets the FG to drop a few points.

Your gravity is off by .002.. that's not much at all. I wouldn't worry with it myself, but if you want to try to rouse the yeast it couldn't possibly hurt anything.

There are so many factors that could be at work here. I am inclined to think that it is most likely one of the reasons that pm and Nordeast mentioned... slightly warmer mash in the case of an AG, or just the quirky nature of extract brews.

Yes it was an extract brew. Do you thing I under pitched? What should I do to not have this issue next time? By the way Nordeast, you keep helping me out. I appreciate it. I see you are a Mpls guy, where do you buy your ingredients?

phuff7129 said:

Yes it was an extract brew. Do you thing I under pitched? What should I do to not have this issue next time? By the way Nordeast, you keep helping me out. I appreciate it. I see you are a Mpls guy, where do you buy your ingredients?

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mainly at Midwest, can't beat their prices and a couple of the guys there are really great when ya get to picking their brain. one used to brew at a local pub and is very knowledgable and will go out of his way to help customers. i also buy a lot from Brew & Grow in Spring Lake Park, it's right up Central Av from my house, so it's nice and convenient. the guys there are helpful and very nice, but their information is a bit dated and sometimes not that great depending on who ya talk to. but they're always nice and a couple of them are really good brewers.
as far as your issue, i'm thinking it's the extract stall. a lot of times they poop out around 1.02. some things you can do are; use DME when you can, when using LME add some or all at flameout to avoid caramelizing it, when using LME try to get it as fresh as possible. both Northern Brewer and Midwest have a really high turnover and their LME seems to be very good quality. they both use Briess LME, i believe, packaged up in Forrest Lake, so it's fairly fresh. there's also the option of doing a small partial mash, it's no harder than steeping grains and it can really help. if you want to give it a try, i'd be more than happy to walk you through your first PM batch, just let me know. i'll message you my contact info, forgot to do that earlier anyway.

Thanks Nordeast, I appreciate it. I am going to stir things up and turn up the heat and see if I can get it down a bit. I look forward to hearing from you when you know your brew schedule. Cheers!

NordeastBrewer77 said:

was it an extract brew? if it was, 1.020 might be your FG.

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NordeastBrewer77 said:

as far as your issue, i'm thinking it's the extract stall. a lot of times they poop out around 1.02.

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I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

Calder said:

I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

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1) I think most people attribute it to caramelization of the sugars in the extract that render them unfermentable.

2) The idea that "a lot of prize winning beers..." and "Some people get the 1.020 curse" are not mutually exclusive.

pabloj13 said:

2) The idea that "a lot of prize winning beers..." and "Some people get the 1.020 curse" are not mutually exclusive.

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i'm glad you said this so i didn't have to.

I think it is relevant to consider that with LME (especially) and DME is that you never know the age, how it was stored, and how it was made, so you never can know really precisely how your expected FG will end up.

Calder said:

I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

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i agree that you can get great attenuation when brewing all extract. i do it regularly myself. but i feel that measures have to be taken to limit caramelization and the maillard reactions that occur in the boil. i'd say one out of five of my brews are extract with grains brews, and most of the time they attenuate quite well, usually w/in a couple points of what my software expects. i also do a few things with my extract brews that help maximize the fermentables that i get from the extract; i try to use DME only, and only use light or extra light in my recipes. if i need to use LME, like when i want some Munich malt in the beer, i use fresh (midwest supply) LME and add it at flameout. this helps reduce caramelizations and maillard reactions. it helps the beer attenuate and reduces darkening attributed with extract brews.
i s'pose you're right that a more experienced extract brewer knows these tricks and uses them. none the less, the extract stall happens when you don't use your extracts in an ideal manner, IMO.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i also do a few things with my extract brews that help maximize the fermentables that i get from the extract; i try to use DME only, and only use light or extra light in my recipes. if i need to use LME, like when i want some Munich malt in the beer, i use fresh (midwest supply) LME and add it at flameout. this helps reduce caramelizations and maillard reactions. it helps the beer attenuate and reduces darkening attributed with extract brews.
i s'pose you're right that a more experienced extract brewer knows these tricks and uses them. none the less, the extract stall happens when you don't use your extracts in an ideal manner, IMO.

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When I use extract I exclusively use LME and have no issues.

I gave up brewing for 7 years. First beer I brewed when getting back was using LME from a container of LME that had been opened before I gave up brewing. Although it was a light LME, it was dark after all those years.

OG was about (I don't have the details here) 1.054, and ended up at 1.014. This beer used a 'no-name' yeast; probably would have done better with a decent yeast. I don't believe age makes any difference to extract fermentability.

Calder said:

I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

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Curious. I have had more than a couple of extract beers stall at 1.020. I don't think it's inexperience as I've brewed a bit in my time.

I think it's the fermentability of the extract.

Ringwood is also notorious for stalling. I used it in a porter and gave it a good swirl every day toward the end of the first week, then left it for another three in the mid 60's to clean up diacetyl, which it's also famous for. I only have the one data point, but it came out fine. Ringwood smells really good.

Calder said:

When I use extract I exclusively use LME and have no issues.

I gave up brewing for 7 years. First beer I brewed when getting back was using LME from a container of LME that had been opened before I gave up brewing. Although it was a light LME, it was dark after all those years.

OG was about (I don't have the details here) 1.054, and ended up at 1.014. This beer used a 'no-name' yeast; probably would have done better with a decent yeast. I don't believe age makes any difference to extract fermentability.

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wow. ya got lucky there. it's still pretty widely accepted that LME, if dated and/or used improperly has this thing for stalling around 1.02. Jamil actually covers this in the beginning of BCS. since the bulk of the recipes in that book use LME, he mentions a few ways you can help ensure that the beers will attenuate well and the darkening of the LME will be limited.
i agree with Yooper. i've brewed a lot of beer, and i know some tricks to help make great extract beer. in fact, sometimes it's hard to tell my extract beer from my PM or AG brews when i'm drinking them. but i still get the occasional batch that peeters out around 1.020, with no explanation other that it being an extract batch. i know it's not a yeast health issue, and it can't be a mash temp issue, i ferment extract batches at the same temps i would any other batch, i don't do anything different that i do with any other batch besides replace the mash with extract.

Interesting conversation. I say you learn more here by accident than most people learn by design.

The good news is I roused the yeast a little and warmed the temp up to 70 and I got it down to 1.018 which based on the lower attenuation factor of Ringwood is exactly what Beersmith said I should get.

This time the Hydro sample didnt taste as good and it had a stronger alcohol taste and smell. Is this the diacetyl? Anyway I transfered it to secondary for the dryhop.

I have to say that this is the clearest beer I have ever brewed. I used irish moss and the ringwood yeast is a high flocculating yeast. It is crystal clear!

Thanks for all of your input. It is much appreciated!

phuff7129 said:

I
This time the Hydro sample didnt taste as good and it had a stronger alcohol taste and smell. Is this the diacetyl?
Thanks for all of your input. It is much appreciated!

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nope, no diacetyl, just a common trait of young beer. it'll smooth out in just a little time.