I don't know what to do!

Hi all,
So I'm brand new to the homebrew hobby/obsession and I'm waiting on my first batch, a Pale Ale. My fermentation seems either stuck or done and I don't know if I should push the fermentation or go ahead and bottle. I've been reading up as much as I can in books, websites, and in these forums, and haven't seen exactly what I'm experiencing, so I thought I'd ask the experienced members of the board.

I'm making the True Brew All Malt Pale Ale kit for my first batch. The target beginning gravity, according to the directions, is 1.043-1.045. Mine was 1.048, which from everything I've read is just fine. I brewed on Monday afternoon.

Tuesday morning the airlock was bubbling and I knew I was fermenting. Wednesday morning the bubbles had stopped, which I know doesn't mean anything in and of itself.

Wednesday morning I took a gravity reading and I wasn't getting a reliable reading. What I mean is, most of the times I dropped the hydro into the cylinder (not the fermenter itself) I got 1.010, which is exactly at the target of 1.010-1.012 (according to the instructions). But a few times the reading was actually 1.020. OK, so that was Wednesday. Saturday (yesterday) I took a reading hoping to see it at 1.010 "again," but instead I was treated to a very steady 1.020.

Now it's Sunday and I took the reading again and again I get 1.020.

So, what's the deal? The taste is that of a flat Pale Ale, so I don't think there's anything going on contamination-wise. I've read that if the readings are consistent over a number of days, you're ready to bottle. But I also suspect that 1.020 is a tad high and there's more fermentation to go, and I think I should pitch a second packet of yeast and let her sit another week.

Help!
(And thanks!)

By the way, the fermentation temp has been sitting between 62-64f. I know that's a tad low, but it's the best I can do in the house without getting extra equipment which I know will help put my new hobby to an abrupt end (ie. the Missus).

Ahh, the dreaded 1.020 curse.

Typical suggestions usually go as follows:

1) Gently stir the yeast cake to re-suspend it.
2) Slowly warm the fermenter to 70ish degrees.
3) If that doesn't get the yeast going, you can try re-pitching.

My first batch, a Stout, was a victim of the 1.020 curse. I tried all of the above and it only dropped another 2 points or so.

Good morning! A couple of thoughts:

1. Reading the Hydrometer
Reading the hydrometer can seem weird, odd at first. Some tips are to make sure the cylinder is on a level surface, don't drop the hydrometer in (they break very easily), give the hydrometer a little spin to get rid of bubbles around it and to keep it from sticking to the side of the cylinder.

2. 1.020
1.020 is a little high, but only a little. Extract brews often end a little high, because we don't know exactly how much unfermentables there are in that extract, which leads to a higher final gravity.

3. Temperature
I think you're right, the temp might have something to do with it, too. Do you have a room that's warmer, like a bathroom or bedroom closet? Or put it by a radiator or air vent? Or an electric blanket?

4. Time
Yes, you are right that when the gravity is final, at the same point for a number of days, it is possible to bottle safely, without creating bottle bombs. But, that doesn't mean you have to bottle. Many brewers would leave their beer in either primary or move to a secondary, for a total of three weeks or more. The yeast may be done with fermentation, but is still working to clean up your beer, making things better.

And welcome to the hobby! Cheers!

Swirl the bucket around a bit, and wrap a towl around it. Try to get it a little warmer. I know those kits say to bottle three days after it stops bubbling, but do yourself a favor and leave it for three weeks.
I have had a couple of bathes get stuck between 1.018-1.022. If you do some searching around here, you will find that it does happen. I would still leave it to let the yeast clean up!
Welcome aboard!

Edit: Wow, three replies at the same time.

Dave258 said:

Edit: Wow, three replies at the same time.

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I knew I came to the right place.

I did try swirling, yesterday when I saw the 1.020. 24 hours later no change.

I'll reassess the house for a warmer spot, but I don't think that's going to go over too well. Hmmm. I can definitely try wrapping a towel around it.

Keep the advice coming, and thanks!

When you are dropping the hydrometer into the tube, do you notice little bubbles in solution? There may be some co2 in solution and that keeps lifting the hydrometer a bit. Tap the test vessel a couple times (I flick it with thumb and index finger) to dislodge the bubbles and let the hydro float freely, and give it a couple minutes on a flat surfact before reading it.

BUT having said that, it's only been in primary for a week, it may NOT be stuck at the 1,020 curse...it may still need more time.

If it does read 1.020 then warm up the fermenter (wrapping it with a blanket or move it to a warmer space) and give it a little gentle swirl to wake the yeasties back up...And walk away for a at least another week.

You will find than many of us will advocate waiting a couple more weeks before even moving it to secondary. Though many of us opt for 1 month in primary and no secondary unless we are oaking or adding fruit, we even dry hop in primary after fermentation is complete (I wait til 2 weeks after yeast pitch to add hops.)

Just because the beer may be done fermenting, doesn't mean that the yeast are done doing work. If left alone, the the yeast like to clean up the byproduct of their fermentation; the stuff that produces off flavors.

Even John Palmer talks about this in How To Bew;

How To Brew said:

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring.

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I know it's your first batch and you are excited about trying it, but the difference between tasting a crappy beer and tasting a fantastic beer is simply giving the yeast plenty of time to do it's thing. We aren't making koolaid here, we are relying on a living micro-organism to do the work for us, and it has it's own timeframe.

aikomhoch said:

I did try swirling, yesterday when I saw the 1.020. 24 hours later no change.

I'll reassess the house for a warmer spot, but I don't think that's going to go over too well. Hmmm. I can definitely try wrapping a towel around it.

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It's not necessarily going to happen overnight.....like I said this a living creature doing the work for us...I would have waited at least 3 days before grav reading. But definitely find a warmer spot.

I'm sure you've got a handle on your hydrometer, but just to check; are you taking readings at 60 degrees or adjusting if the temp is higher/lower than that? If stirring and warming the fermentation doesn't get it going, leave it for a couple weeks and start brewing your next batch! If the 1.020 reading still doesn't drop, it will probably still be a great beer... just not what you were expecting. I recently brewed a beer that only got down to 1.024 (I was expecting 1.012) and it still tastes great!

What yeast did they give you? Muntons standard and Winsor are low-attenuation yeasts that are commonly put in kits.

Revvy said:

When you are dropping the hydrometer into the tube, do you notice little bubbles in solution? There may be some co2 in solution and that keeps lifting the hydrometer a bit. Tap the test vessel a couple times (I flick it with thumb and index finger) to dislodge the bubbles and let the hydro float freely, and give it a couple minutes on a flat surfact before reading it.

If it does read 1.020 then warm up the fermenter (wrapping it with a blanket or move it to a warmer space) and give it a little gentle swirl to wake the yeasties back up...And walk away for a at least another week.

You will find than many of us will advocate waiting a couple more weeks before even moving it to secondary. Though many of us opt for 1 month in primary and no secondary unless we are oaking or adding fruit, we even dry hop in primary after fermentation is complete (I wait til 2 weeks after yeast pitch to add hops.)

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I only noticed a very tiny amount of bubbles with the sample. Didn't strike me as anything significant. I had tried spinning it slowly and that seemed to have done away with all but a handful of bubbles.

I moved the fermenter to a slightly warmer spot in a different part of the house. The temp has gone from 62 up to 66 since I moved it around 6 hours ago. Now it's in the laundry room where it should stay warmer and more consistent. My only concern is that when the dryer is running it may warm things up. Then again, it's not right next to it and the dryer only runs for an hour here and there.

I'm not presently working with a secondary fermenter; I just have the primary that came with the kit. Do you feel I should keep it there for a few weeks no matter what? That's what you seem to be advocating. I know from reading Papazian and others that I shouldn't keep it in there more than three weeks or I risk the yeast producing some undesirable flavors.

aikomhoch said:

I only noticed a very tiny amount of bubbles with the sample. Didn't strike me as anything significant. I had tried spinning it slowly and that seemed to have done away with all but a handful of bubbles.

I moved the fermenter to a slightly warmer spot in a different part of the house. The temp has gone from 62 up to 66 since I moved it around 6 hours ago. Now it's in the laundry room where it should stay warmer and more consistent. My only concern is that when the dryer is running it may warm things up. Then again, it's not right next to it and the dryer only runs for an hour here and there.

I'm not presently working with a secondary fermenter; I just have the primary that came with the kit. Do you feel I should keep it there for a few weeks no matter what? That's what you seem to be advocating. I know from reading Papazian and others that I shouldn't keep it in there more than three weeks or I risk the yeast producing some undesirable flavors.

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Papazian's book is nearly 30 years old, and even the updates are outdated.

People have successfully had their beer in primary for upwards of 6 months with no issues....

You will find that many of us leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks (or more) and only secondary if we are adding fruit or oak, or to dry hop (though many of us dry hop in primary now as well)....and we have found our beer vastly improved by letting the beer stay in contact with the yeast.

There's been a big shift in brewing consciousness in the last few years where many of us believe that yeast is a good thing, and besides just fermenting the beer, that they are fastidious creatures who go back and clean up any by products created by themselves during fermentation, which may lead to off flavors.

Rather than the yeast being the cause of off flavors, it is now looked at by many of us, that they will if left alone actually remove those off flavors, and make for clearer and cleaner tasting beers.

Even John Palmer talks about this in How To Bew;

How To Brew said:

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

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John Palmer

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

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People have left it as much as six months. Autolysis is a myth for homebrewers.

Even when Palmer is talking about it, he's talking about it in terms of LAGERS not ales. Most people get so freaked out about in reading Palmer, that they don't notice it is in the Lager chapter, nor do they notice the caveat at the end of the section that I posted above.

I still believe that POSSIBLY autolysis WAS a concern to homebrewers 20-30 years ago, when the yeast came in dry cakes, of dubious heritage and came across from where homebrewing was legalized in the hot cargo holds of ships and may have sat for months in terrible conditioned...In other words was unhealthy to begin with.

And therefore may have crapped out and made for nastiness, (and also was prone to stick fermentation as well.) and tales of it just continued to perpetuate over time, even though yeasts are much more healthy and fresh, and more is understood about them nowaday....people gravitate to the negative and fear and still perpetuate those worries...over and over and over....

And I still maintain that as much as I like Palmer, he contributed to the hysteria.....I mean noone but me seems to notice that that section on the scary autolysis appears in the chapter on lagering. He is not talking about it with ales...or beers in general..just lagers..because flaws are more perceptable in lagers...since in essence most commercial lagers are tasteless...anything would stand out..

and I think most new brewers have crapped themselves at the mere thought long before the notice the closer to the section I mentioned earlier.

This is where the most up to date brewing wisdom and ideas can be found...In fact a lot of stuff has been started on here, and made it into byo or zymurgy or podcasts...in fact BYO DID a piece on no secondary/long primary, along with the BASIC BREWING PODCAST and even they said that there were no issues/harm with doing it and in some beers it did actually improve the flavor and clarity. And I believe that really WAS influenced by the discussion we have had for the last couple years on here.

sea2summit3 said:

I'm sure you've got a handle on your hydrometer, but just to check; are you taking readings at 60 degrees or adjusting if the temp is higher/lower than that? If stirring and warming the fermentation doesn't get it going, leave it for a couple weeks and start brewing your next batch! If the 1.020 reading still doesn't drop, it will probably still be a great beer... just not what you were expecting. I recently brewed a beer that only got down to 1.024 (I was expecting 1.012) and it still tastes great!

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I measured it at 62, so when I run it through the calculator is corrects to the same reading as shown on the hydrometer.

david_42 said:

What yeast did they give you? Muntons standard and Winsor are low-attenuation yeasts that are commonly put in kits.

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Munton's Ale Yeast is all it said.

i have had a few as well and unfortunately have not got them to go too much further

Your best bet has been stated before (warmer, swirl or repitch, but also if you are going to repitch yeast, go with a dry yeast such as Notty as it does not "require" you to oxygenate the beer which is very important as you cant do so without ruining your beer.

Please note that when you initially pitch your yeast into your wort, ALWAYS oxygenate regardless of whether or not some dry yeasts say you can skip it. When repitching due to stuck fermentation NEVER oxygenate your beer.

So I brought the fermenter to a more consistently warm location 48 hours ago. The temp has been steady at 66f since the move (up from 62). To see how I'm doing, I took a gravity reading today and it's still at 1.020. I also gave it a little taste and I notice a very different taste than the last time I sampled. Today the taste was, I can only describe it as acidic. Kind of like the after-taste you get from orange juice or grapefruit juice. I also noticed that the dried, caked on krausen that had been in a ring over the top of the beer was much smaller. I'm wondering if some/ alot feel into the beer as I was carrying it and/or swirling it (did I swirl too harshly)?

I know the advice is to sit and wait longer before bottling, but I'm losing patience because 1) it's my first brew! and 2) I'm afraid it's crapped out and I'm sitting and waiting for nothing.

So...should I finally pitch more yeast? Is there something I can use to counteract that acidic taste (or is that taste normal at this stage)? Should I dump it and start over? Should I bottle it and start a new batch (I would wait to bottle until the weekend, so it'll still be in there four more days)? Should I chill and see what happens?

And I TRULY appreciate everyone's advice. I've learned so much from all of you already.

I find it truly bizarre that you got a 1.010 reading at one point. Here's one thing to consider when you're taking a gravity reading. Beer that's fermenting or just finished fermenting will have high amounts of CO2 dissolved in it. If your hydrometer isn't clean, CO2 bubbles will nucleate on its surface raising its buoyancy and therefore giving you a reading higher than what it really is. Make sure you clean the hydrometer really well, and spin it vigorously a couple of times to shake the bubbles off when you dip it in. You want to make sure that 1.020 wasn't a fluke cause few things suck more than over attenuated beer.

aikomhoch said:

I know the advice is to sit and wait longer before bottling, but I'm losing patience because 1) it's my first brew! and 2) I'm afraid it's crapped out and I'm sitting and waiting for nothing.

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4. Time
Yes, you are right that when the gravity is final, at the same point for a number of days, it is possible to bottle safely, without creating bottle bombs. But, that doesn't mean you have to bottle. Many brewers would leave their beer in either primary or move to a secondary, for a total of three weeks or more. The yeast may be done with fermentation, but is still working to clean up your beer, making things better.

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Its not right and wrong, but rather a choice you get to make! Leave it or bottle it. If it were me, I'd follow my advice above (I often give myself advice, that's why people don't sit next to me on the train) and let it sit at least three weeks.

As for your tasting, I find it very difficult to effectively identify flavors when its young, flat and warm. Let it develop a little, carbonate and chill. It will be just fine! Cheers!

Probably unlikely, but could the paper in your hydrometer have moved? It happens. I highly doubt it, but I would calibrate it in distilled or RO water, just to be sure that it's reading zero correctly. I don't think this is the problem, but stranger things have happened and, since you are a new brewer, I'm going to assume you've never bothered to check the hydrometer. I brewed several beers before I realized that the thing could be giving me incorrect readings.

Update and question:

Ok, so following all the great advice in this thread, and all over this site, I've left the beer alone to let the yeasties do their thing. I decided to wait until full three weeks in the primary before bottling. Then my wife got a new job and we are suddenly throwing a party exactly three weeks from today. I would LOVE to serve my Pale Ale at the party, and moving the party back a week I impossible.

I took a gravity reading today (first time I've looked inside in close to a week) and I am at 1.017. And, the color is great (but a bit cloudy) an it tastes like a flat version of the Flying Dog Pale Ale I drank yesterday. So my new question is: am I better off three weeks in the primary (one week to go) and two in the bottles? Two total primary, bottle today and three full weeks in the bottles? Split the difference and bottle mid week? Or just buy beer for te party? I don't think I should bottle today because I need to check my gravity in a day or two to be sure it's done dropping. A mid-week bottle seems like a good compromise.

You guys are great, and I look forward to your thoughts.

You have no control over the time it takes for a beer to carbonate. The yeast will takes as long as it needs to carbonate, not when you decide to open a bottle. It's not like your choice as to when to rack or how long to leave a beer in primary, it is a natural process that has it's own agenda and timeframe.

The bare minimum for most average grav beers is 3 weeks at 70 degrees. But that's just a minimum and that's for beers 1.060 and below, things over will need more time.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

But just because a beer is fizzy, doesn't mean it won't still taste like a$$ and need more time to condition.

More info can be found here....Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

Since it's a pale ale you have a chance of it being carbed and conditioned in 3 weeks

But still there's no guarantee. If you bottle it today there is a chance. What I would do is bottle it today, find the warmest place above 70 degrees, and leave them alone for a week, then next saturdy I would give the bottles a shake to resuspend the yeast then leave them alone for another 10 days, and that wednesday before drink day I would stick one in the fridge over night. On thursday nght, test it and see if it's carbed and conditioned, and tastes good. If that's the case then put as many as you think you'll be drinking on that following saturday in the fridge and enjoy on saturday. But don't drink all of them you you'll miss out on the goodness that they will be a week or more later.

If it's not ready,then go buy some and hide your beer and tell your friends that you respect them too much to serve them beer that is not 100% at it's best yet.

We get variations of this all the time, someone wanting to rush the process so people at a party or gathering can taste the beer....And we usually tell them the same thing...BUY BEER, or bing something else...they will survive, but your cred as a brewer may NOT if you serve them green beer.

It does noone any good, whether they are knowlegable about homebrew or just like MBC's to serve them green, or sub par beers.

If you are serving green, yeasty, and nasty tasting beer to people who have never tasted homebrew then they won't understand..what it's supposed to taste like....

They will think that EITHER you suck as a brewer, ALL HOMEBREW SUCKS (and you'll prolly go blind anyway) or those BMC commercials were right, anything other than fizzy yellow beer, especially homebrew taste like a$$, and we should stick to bud light..."THat's what TV says, so it must be true, right?"

You won't be a great ambassador to the world of homebrewing beer you tried to rush through....and saying "Heh, it's just green, and not fully carbed yet, it will get better with time, really won't fly to someone who drinks bud with their born on dates."

Ok, all bottled and stashed away. The room they're in will be between 70 and 72 degrees; warmest spot in the house this time of year. I wrapped the cases in a towel.

Bottling went very smoothly, and I Filled 44 bottles. I suspect all the gravity readings and nervousness about pulling funky stuff off the bottom left a lot behind, and that I'll get better as the months go on.

Revvy, the shake you mentioned. I assume nothing too aggressive, right? And keep it in that warm spot until it goes in the fridge? Anything left after three weeks and the party I'll move to it's permanent waiting area, which will be cooler.

I'm thinking I may brew my next batch tomorrow so I can implement everything I've learned here. It's a true brew nut brown ale.

aikomhoch said:

And keep it in that warm spot until it goes in the fridge? Anything left after three weeks and the party I'll move to it's permanent waiting area, which will be cooler.

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Yes, I keep my bottles in a warm upstairs closet until I've deemed them carbonated, then move them back to the brewery in my basement. They still continue to condition even in the cooler space, but I keep them in the warm space until I'm pleased with the carbonation.

And good luck on your next batch!

Pappers said:

Yes, I keep my bottles in a warm upstairs closet until I've deemed them carbonated, then move them back to the brewery in my basement. They still continue to condition even in the cooler space, but I keep them in the warm space until I'm pleased with the carbonation.

And good luck on your next batch!

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Thanks! I'm going to spend the night reading on the boards here to reinforce all of the things I know I did wrong the first time through.

I'm actually thinking of holding off, because I ordered a few things from AHS (notably, Notty yeast to replace the Muttons that came with the kit). But I also think I may have cracked my airlock, in which case I'll need to run to the local store anyway...and I can always pick up a packet of Notty while I'm getting a new airlock. Hmmmm.

Oh Damb the luck.... "Have to run in to the LHBS".... Aw Shucks....

I made a trip in today myself for tomorrow's brew day... Got to support them too as sometimes they are the savior when your brew plans go a-miss then you break something...

Learn something new every brew day, it only get's better every time you brew!

Cheers

FxdGrMind said:

Oh Damb the luck.... "Have to run in to the LHBS".... Aw Shucks....

I made a trip in today myself for tomorrow's brew day... Got to support them too as sometimes they are the savior when your brew plans go a-miss then you break something...

Learn something new every brew day, it only get's better every time you brew!

Cheers

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I bought my kid at a store about 20 minutes from the house, which isn't so bad, but terribly out of the way. I just discovered there is a LHBS 5 minutes from work. 5 minutes!

aikomhoch said:

I bought my kid at a store about 20 minutes from the house, which isn't so bad, but terribly out of the way. I just discovered there is a LHBS 5 minutes from work. 5 minutes!

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How much does a kid run these days? I'm wondering how much I could get for mine?

Shooter said:

How much does a kid run these days? I'm wondering how much I could get for mine?

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Depends on many factors (gender, education level, etc.). Send me a PM with specs and I'll make an offer.

So I bottled on Saturday and, following the advice I've read in a few places, I bottled one clear bottle with the rest in brown glass. I took a quick peak on Sunday and saw a nice color but very cloudy, which I expected. I haven't looked since then, other than checking the temp in the room, which has been fluctuating between 72-74 degrees. This afternoon I took another quick peak at my clear bottle and this time, while the color itself looks perfect, I noticed it was much clearer and not very cloudy at all. Then I noticed a tremendous amount of sediment at the bottom, far more than I expected would be there. It looked as if anything solid in the bottle had settled right to the bottom. The sediment looked very much like the light DME I had added on brew day: a sort of tannish/yellowish clumpy powderish looking glob. I really wasn't expecting this.

Is this all the yeast settled to the bottom? Shouldn't it still be floating around doing stuff? I've had beer with sediment on the bottom and it was never this much. Thoughts?

Don't worry about it, the yeasties know what they are doing, they know how to carbonate your beer, and when to fall out.

MOST of us just bottle and walk away for 3 weeks....We figure they've been doing it much longer than we have. Plus you will be less anxious that way.

aikomhoch said:

By the way, the fermentation temp has been sitting between 62-64f. I know that's a tad low, but it's the best I can do in the house without getting extra equipment which I know will help put my new hobby to an abrupt end (ie. the Missus).

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My laundry room is relatively small. When I close the door the temperature in the laundry room is often warmer than the rest of the house, especially when the dryer is running. Could this be a potential method for you raise your future fermentation temps?

Revvy said:

Don't worry about it, the yeasties know what they are doing, they know how to carbonate your beer, and when to fall out.

MOST of us just bottle and walk away for 3 weeks....We figure they've been doing it much longer than we have. Plus you will be less anxious that way.

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Sounds good. Trust the yeast. I can do that. I still plan to shake them slightly next weekend, as you suggested above. Thanks.

oceanselv said:

My laundry room is relatively small. When I close the door the temperature in the laundry room is often warmer than the rest of the house, especially when the dryer is running. Could this be a potential method for you raise your future fermentation temps?

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That's exactly what I have planned. I keep the upstairs temp around 70 and it's getting around 73 with the door closed. Problem is, the space where I can put the beer (I've already moved the vacuum out) is limited and I have room for the conditioning bottles but then no room for the fermenter. And clearly I want to have bottles conditioning while another batch is fermenting. Seems too soon in my new hobby to add on to the house.

Update here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/holy-crap-i-made-beer-157663/