I can't measure 5 gallons. Crazy?

All-
Years ago, I bought a brewing kit from midwest supplies that included a fermentation bucket that is roughly 6-7 gallons with graduated gallon marks on the side (US & Imperial). It's apparently French-Canadian as it's labeled "Bier et Vin"....anyone else have one?
This bucket has been the "gold standard" for all of my brewing measurements until yesterday. After a string of low efficiency and ruling nearly everything else out, I thought maybe my unit of measure was off. I tried several things and here's what I came up with:

-Filling up the bucket one measuring cup at a time, 5 gallons (80 cups) came in well below the 4 US gallon line on the the bucket.
-Seemingly low, I poured that volume into a 5 gal corny and it left at least 8-10 inches of room from the top. That seemed off.
-Using an 8qt bowl, I filled another 5 gallons in the bucket 4 quarts at a time and came up with the same low measurement as the measuring cup session....about 3/4 full.
-Starting to panic, I filled up my 5 gal HLT to the 5 gal mark, poured it into the bucket and it came out near the 5 gal mark.
-I filled the bucket to 5 gallons, poured that into my 30qt brew kettle, filled another 2 or so gallons in the bucket and transferred that to the kettle filling it to the brim (7.5 gal).

What the hell is going on?? Have I been over a gallon off for my entire brewing career? This would answer my low efficiency problem. Is there a brewing-wide universally accepted standard? When I go by the seemingly most accurate measure (measuring cup) it comes out way too low (I think).

Has anyone else come across this craziness? I'd love to hear your take on it before I start down another mis-measured brewing adventure. Thanks in advance.

Cheers-
Guinnessface

Because I have 5 measuring cups, 3 flasks, 5 buckets, and none of them agree with one another I ended up weighing out 8.34 # of water and marking a bucket. (I actually converted it to grams to be more accurate). I then filled a straight sided kettle with 6 of the marked buckets = 6 gallon. I measured the depth of the liquid and using the math I came out really darn accurate.

Are you sure You're not getting the Imperial & US gallons mixed up?

As far as the markings on containers is concerned, a recent issue of Cook's Illustrated did a review of six two-cup kitchen measuring cups. Only two of the six were completely accurate. One was fourteen percent (14%!!!) off. This is in a product that is small, and the sole purpose for which is measuring volume. So there it is.

i guess i've never been concerned with that close of accuracy. I use old milk jugs, I cut the top off so they pour quicker. It is by no means exactly 1 gallon. And if my mash calls for say 14 quarts, well I fill the milk jug 3 times, then fill it half way... half way being measured by my eyes.. so again, not very accurate.

Relax, don't worry and have a homebrew. I can't believe you filled up a 5 gallon jug with a measuring cup:cross:

The buckets are notoriously inaccurate with their markings. Use your other measuring devices such as cooking pitchers and what not.

metaltim said:

i guess i've never been concerned with that close of accuracy. I use old milk jugs, I cut the top off so they pour quicker. It is by no means exactly 1 gallon. And if my mash calls for say 14 quarts, well I fill the milk jug 3 times, then fill it half way... half way being measured by my eyes.. so again, not very accurate.

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this is what I do too, but I am only 4 batches in so I'm still more concerned with not spilling all of my beer on the floor than getting exact volume measurements. I plan to measure water, and mark off every half gallon in all my carboys and pots someday but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Yeh i marked all my carboys. The one thing I'd really like to do is put a sight glass in my main pot.. that would make it a bit easier, but more so at the end of the mash when I'm trying to get my 6.5 gallons or whatnot.

I find myself doing my brews more often with purchased drinking water.. so that's already measure out for me.

metaltim said:

Yeh i marked all my carboys. The one thing I'd really like to do is put a sight glass in my main pot.. that would make it a bit easier, but more so at the end of the mash when I'm trying to get my 6.5 gallons or whatnot.

I find myself doing my brews more often with purchased drinking water.. so that's already measure out for me.

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I think this is why I really don't measure. I buy water by 5 gal. container from the RO machine at the grocery store. I use one SS pot for preheating on the stove. I know that the bottom of the bottom rivet in that pot is @ 3.5 gal. That's my preheat water, which becomes my sparge later. I put 5 gal. of strike water in my big pot. I eyeball it; about 1/5 inches below the bottom handle rivet is 5 gal. For the ordinary 10-12 lbs. of grist and a 60 min boil, this will come out right on the money with a 6.5 gal. boil and 5+ gal. in the fermenter. The beer comes out great, so I guess I'm just not that interested in being any more exact.

rico567 said:

Are you sure You're not getting the Imperial & US gallons mixed up?

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First thing that came to my mind.

Do it by weight...people don't seem to mind if their measuring cups are inaccurate, but there would be a revolution if the bathroom scale added 10 pounds

iaefebs looks like the winner.
The standard in the brewing industry is weight. That would be the most accurate way to "calibrate" your equipment.

If we're going by weight, what temp is normal for "the standard?"

I don't think weight is the best way to do it unless you have a very accurate scale. I tried it with a bathroom scale and it was not good. Best way I found is use a 250 mL graduated cylinder, they are the only measuring device I truly trust and I have one for taking SG samples anyway. I tried a 2 qt bowl and some other ideas to no avail. Get a milkjug or similar and use the graduated cylinder to get 1 gallon. Then make a mark on the jug so you have a truly 1 gallon device. Then fill primary and remark. Mine was quite a way off especially toward the upper end.

1 cubic meter of water=1 metric ton=2228lbs. You can do the math from there. Or use one of those fancy pants computers. I personally bought a $12 graduated bucket from the hardware store (not home depot please), it's good enough for me.

For some reason this thread reminded me of an Its Always Sunny Episode

Dennis Reynolds: [to Charlie] Alright buddy now explain to me how exactly we are going to calculate the totals?
Charlie Kelly: Oh its easy dude. You pour gas into the car using one of these funnels, right. And I count how much gas is going into the car.
Dennis Reynolds: Alright, let me, let me just stop you right there. How exactly are you planning on COUNTING a liquid?
Charlie Kelly: Uhh, I know how to count dude, I'm not...
Dennis Reynolds: [to Mac] Okay, You do it. you do it Mac, because I can't speak to him. I don't understand him.

Isn't a pint a pound?

Holy crap! I never knew that.

Checked Wolframalpha.com (coolest website ever):

1 pint weighs 1.04 lbs.

Make sure you're not using measuring cups for dry measure. My liquid measure pyrex cups filled my gallon jug just right.

HerotBrewer said:

If we're going by weight, what temp is normal for "the standard?"

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40 lbs of water is still 40 lbs of water regardless of temperature. That's why it's the standard. Volume will change slightly with temperature (granted, not really enough to notice, depending on how precise you want to be), weight will not.

A pints a pound the world round! Easy peasy

MrFoodScientist said:

40 lbs of water is still 40 lbs of water regardless of temperature. That's why it's the standard. Volume will change slightly with temperature (granted, not really enough to notice, depending on how precise you want to be), weight will not.

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D'oh. Thanks. My brain wasn't working.

A gallon is 8 pints...so if 'a pint's a pound the world around' then a gallon would be 8 pounds the world around. But it's not, a gallon weighs 8.345 pounds. That 8.345 pounds is at 4* C which is the maximum density for pure water. From this table and using 24* C as your 'room temperature' then it appears pure water at 24* C is ~8.32 pounds per gallon (that was 8.345 x .9973/.999973). So even at room temp that 'pint's a pound...' thing isn't really accurate once you stack up 8 pints.

But I use that old adage for cooking all the time.

I use gallon water jugs and a 5 gallon water jug and when they're full, they're at the specified volume. All those dairies selling milk and water companies selling water all these years have it figgered out purty good. No waste.

I read this thread and then got all concerned, so I measured my Morebeer bottling bucket, which is how I measure out my brewing waters. I used a Rubbermaid 1 qt. measuring cup and filled the bucket. Only took about 15 minutes... and now I have quarter gallon measurements marked!

Anyway, the scale on the bucket is pretty much on. It was slightly low for 1-2.5 gallons then from there to 5 gallons the marks were right on.

Close enough for me!

Mrmorrison21 said:

A pints a pound the world round! Easy peasy

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And now we're back to questions of temperature.
If a pint (volume) is a pound (mass), then the volume will change relative to temperature, whereas the mass will not. Am I wrong?

Thanks so much for everyone's input. I just got my internet back, so please excuse my late response. I'm going to try to weigh out a gallon and compare. I know it doesn't have to be to a tee, but I'd rather not be a gallon off in my measurements anymore. Let's hope that was the culprit for my low efficiencies!

Much appreciated-
Guinnessface

HerotBrewer said:

And now we're back to questions of temperature.
If a pint (volume) is a pound (mass), then the volume will change relative to temperature, whereas the mass will not. Am I wrong?

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^^^^^^Two posts up from yours.

Ah, success! I took some great advice and weighed out 8.3 lbs. True to form, the commercial water jugs are just over that amount, so I feel I have a pretty good water mark (literally). I tried that "cascade orange pale ale" recipe and hit the OG hright on the head for once. Thanks again for everyone's input