HDPE solera

FredTheNuke · Nov 30, 2014

Closing in on a year - almost time to remove 15 gallons and add 15 fresh gallons. I'm going to stick with about 30-40% malted wheat but mostly pale 2-row for the base this time. I will post pictures of the yeast trap compaction (it compacted a bit more over the last year), also. I have no plans to add more yeast for this pull or to dump the trub. I'm figuring the trub should be cleared out every 3rd year over the life of this project. Depending on the sourness level I may come back and add some maltodextrin and a bottle or two of East Coast Yeast's Bug County - that should pump of the Roeselare if necessary.

MaddBaggins · Nov 30, 2014

I'm glad you bumped this thread Fred. I hadn't seen it before. I've been considering starting a solera but wasn't sure I could make room for a large barrel. I could easily make some room in my ferm closet for a 20-30g plastic conical.
The hardest part would be filling it. The best I can do on my equipment is 10g at a time. So, I'd have to put in a long day of brewing to filler up.

Oh, and Go Navy! Fire Control Mk 86 GFCS. :ban:

FredTheNuke · Nov 30, 2014

Be careful selecting the conical - most of the ones on the market are MDPE (Medium Density Polyethylene). They will allow too much oxygen in and you'll end up with acetic acid. They work great for a beer that's in them for a few weeks but not a Solera or even a single batch sour.

The Den Hartog blow molded conicals are HDPE and well documented. The model you are most likely looking for is the IBFD35-SET. Link below to one retailer including easy access to the autocad dimensional drawing. I have a 35 and a 60 - both are excellent pieces of equipment. I would spring for full stainless but then I'd have to add the cost of a divorce lawyer to the equation.....

http://www.plastic-mart.com/product...f39EneR-OFDK_svAJsKdmyKkfrMYcDIPYUaAoGh8P8HAQ

MaddBaggins · Nov 30, 2014

Yep, HDPE all the way. Thanks for the link!
And, I'm with you on the divorce lawyer part. I'm going to have to be careful about buying the HDPE on as it is.

edit: I just realized PlasticMart is the same one I have bookmarked from searching a water tank for my offroad trailer project. They have a lot of good tanks for lots of projects.

FredTheNuke · Nov 30, 2014

Below is a snapshot of the Den Hartog catalog - the only reliable source about these tanks. Reason for my statement - half the websites say the tanks are MDPE and the other half HDPE. The blow molded ones (35 and 60 gallon models with legs) are HDPE. The rest of their inductor tanks (about a dozen sizes and most are commonly used for brewing by folks on this website) are MDPE.

SavoryChef · Nov 30, 2014

I finally picked up my 35 gal hdpe for $100 locally. Time to start this project

FredTheNuke · Dec 29, 2014

As promised below are six pictures of the Year 1 Solera pull. I removed 15 gallons and pumped back in 14.25 (damnit!!! a tad short but oh well - back up to 59.25 gallons out of 60). First pic is the pull (barely room in my packed garage). Second pic is the sample. It was GOOD! Of course a bit weak on the sour as all have noted regarding year one Roeselare pitches - but the smell and taste was very pleasant. If this is "young" sour beer and it is considered "bad" well hot damn I can't wait for seasoned sour beer!!!!! The fresh wort had 2 pounds of maltodextrin in it to amp up the 60 gallons a little bit and an OG of 1.061 mashed at 158F with a grist of 70% 2 row and 30% pilsner (no wheat this time - ran out and didn't make it to the LHBS).

I left one 5 gallon batch as is to age longer. The other 2 each got the equivalent of 30 pounds of Montmorency cherries each (1.5 qts each of King Orchard 68 brix concentrate). I'll let that sit for another 6+ months.

The next few are of the 60 gallon HDPE conical being filled and then of the yeast trap with stuff knocked loose from the fill. Remember the fill line is 1/2" stainless steel tubing extending 28 inches into the conical - so well below any pellicle that may be there. The HDPE is not translucent so I can't see if there is one or not.

I can tell you ONE thing at the year 1 point - there is NO issue with oxygen permeation at this point. The beer is very mildly sour and pleasant. Heck - I may need to add some oxygen if this keeps up in year 2 and 3. We shall see in another 12 months.

MaddBaggins · Dec 29, 2014

Awesome Fred! I can't wait to do mine. This isn't a good time for me to spend the money, but it's in my future for sure.

LakesideBrewing · Dec 30, 2014

FredTheNuke said:
Remember the fill line is 1/2" stainless steel tubing extending 28 inches into the conical - so well below any pellicle that may be there.

Quick question about that: Is this for adding fresh wort to the Solera? If so, do you think just adding fresh wort on top of the pellicle (if it's there or not) could be detrimental to the beer? Too much oxygen? I just started a Solera and was trying to figure out how I was going to add fresh wort next year. Thanks for any info.

-Mike

FredTheNuke · Dec 30, 2014

The tube extends deep into the conical WELL below any pellicle - so the process of draining and refilling never disturbs the pellicle beyond pulling it away from the sides of the conical due to the volume change.

No issues noted with my method yet. It does introduce fresh air into the top of the conical via the airlocks (I removed the center piece to ensure a vacuum did not occur during draining). But this is no different than what occurs during a barrel Solera and should have minimal effect. Besides all that fresh sugar will produce some carbon dioxide to blanket the beer's surface anyway - even with the Sacc all dead (I did not add fresh yeast and the wort was 100% unfermented when added).

Those last 2 decisions are going to spark some comments and concerns as some folks recommend adding fresh Sacc yeast or fermenting and then racking into the Solera. I chose to feed the Solera's bugz with all that sugar! If the beer grows too strong in acidity I will add already fermented beer to the Solera during next year's pull to dilute the sourness and provide less food for the bugz.

FredTheNuke · Dec 30, 2014

The cherry juice is doing some weird chit today! Almost like it is flocculating or something. Interesting....

hairmist · Jan 17, 2015

Extremely interesting thread!
Hope you continue to keep everyone posted!

Greetings from Norway.

MaddBaggins · Jan 17, 2015

My LHBS has a 35g den hartog in stock for 399. Pretty comparable to the shipped price from plastic mart.

FredTheNuke · Jan 17, 2015

If I were you I would keep looking. I paid 150 for my 35 gallon delivered and 190 for my 60 gallon delivered. Agrimart.net typically has the best deal. Rural king used to.

MaddBaggins · Jan 17, 2015

FredTheNuke said:
If I were you I would keep looking. I paid 150 for my 35 gallon delivered and 190 for my 60 gallon delivered. Agrimart.net typically has the best deal. Rural king used to.

Plastic mart has a great price, but 200+ for freight to a commercial address in Tucson. Kinda ridiculous. At that point, the 400 one locally is ok. I'm not ready yet anyway so I have time to look around.

FredTheNuke · Jan 17, 2015

The 35 gallon can be shipped UPS. My 60 gallon was shipped UPS but I'm not sure if they will do that anymore. You should pay no more than $200 with shipping on the 35 gallon.

MaddBaggins · Jan 17, 2015

FredTheNuke said:
The 35 gallon can be shipped UPS. My 60 gallon was shipped UPS but I'm not sure if they will do that anymore. You should pay no more than $200 with shipping on the 35 gallon.

I was thinking that myself. I'll have to call them when ready to order. Their shipping estimator is pretty high.

FredTheNuke · Jan 17, 2015

Plastic mart is priced high... Try Agrimart.net

LakesideBrewing · Mar 25, 2015

Hey all,

This is not a question specific to HDPE Soleras, but any solera. Do you guys aerate your wort before adding to the solera? Not in the beginning, but after you take some beer out and replace with wort.

Thanks,
Mike

FredTheNuke · Mar 27, 2015

Mine is a sour solera and I do not replenish my Sacc yeast at this point so I don't aerate. Now if it is getting too sour I will aerate my wort and pre-ferment in a standard bucket with Sacc yeast and then add to the Solera.

Weezy · Mar 27, 2015

I primary with sacc in a separate fermenter.

cactusgarrett · Apr 25, 2018

Bump. Wondering if anyone in this thread who established their soleras years ago have any updates (or are still around).

RPh_Guy · Apr 25, 2018

Siberian said:
I have some sour ales that have been fermenting and aging in 2 - 15 gallon HDPE barrels, one for almost a year, and I don'd detect any acetic acid in tastings which is going to be one of the tip offs of oxygen exposure I think.

Does this thread help?

Edit:
And

Q: Can I use a bucket to age sours or beers with Brettanomyces for extended periods of time?

A: HDPE buckets are more oxygen permeable, and with more oxygen comes the chances of acetic acid (vinegar) development. However, Brettanomyces also thrives from a little bit of oxygen. We have seen many reports of people using buckets successfully, even 2+ years and soleras. We recommend using a higher quality HDPE bucket with a lid that has a gasket that seals. Avoid plastic-on-plastic lids and screw on lids.

from http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/FAQ

MaddBaggins · Apr 28, 2018

@FredTheNuke You still around? How's the solera doing? Any chance you can refresh your pics in this thread. Photobucket has laid waste to sharing anymore unless you pay them.

I still haven't started my solera yet. Money has been tight. I'm back in the planning phase now. I started brewing professionally a few years ago and may be able to score a used 30gal whiskey barrel after we're done with it at the brewery. It's had 2 runs of whiskey and it's on it's second run of beer now. If I get it, my plan is to clean ferment the beer first, then rack in and pitch Jolly Pumpkin dregs (which I always have a stash of in the beer fridge). I figure to rack out 5gal every 6 months and either fruit it or go straight to keg.

HDPE solera

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