Old Dominion Oak Barrel Stout clone?

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brettwasbtd

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Im looking for some help/suggestions on making an old dominion oak barrel stout clone. I recently visted the Fordham (who acquired Old Dominion) brewery and really loved this beer. I think it was voted best beer in Delaware this year or something. Anyways, while at the brewery tour I saw one of their "Brew Log" sheets and took note of a few of the ingredients but couldn't remember it all :mug:. It appears the recipe has changed since the BYO Magazine had a clone recipe in 2005. Here is what I have so far, I'd appreciate thoughts/feedback.

Code:
Old Dominion Oak Barrel Stout Clone - Specialty Beer
================================================================================
Batch Size: 6.000 gal
Boil Size: 8.000 gal
Boil Time: 1.000 hr
Efficiency: 80%
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.015
ABV: 5.9%
Bitterness: 51.9 IBUs (Rager)
Color: 34 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
                 Name  Type   Amount Mashed Late Yield Color      Percent
 Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 8.500 lb    Yes   No  79%%   2 L    66%
    Munich Malt - 10L Grain 1.000 lb    Yes   No  77%%  10 L      8%
      Caramunich Malt Grain 1.000 lb    Yes   No  72%%  56 L      8%
    Crisp Crystal 77L Grain 8.000 oz    Yes   No  75%%  77 L       4%
             Carafoam Grain 8.000 oz    Yes   No  72%%   2 L        4%
  Chocolate Malt (US) Grain 8.000 oz    Yes   No  60%% 350 L    4%
Crsip Roasted Barley Grain 8.000 oz    Yes   No  75%% 550 L      4%
          Smoked Malt Grain 4.000 oz    Yes   No  80%%   9 L        2%
     Peat Smoked Malt Grain 2.000 oz    Yes   No  74%%   3 L      1%

 
Total grain: 12.875 lb

Hops
================================================================================
       Name Alpha   Amount  Use       Time   Form  IBU
    Cascade 7.4%% 1.000 oz Boil  30.000 min Pellet 15.5
 Willamette 4.8%% 2.000 oz Boil    1.000 hr Pellet 36.3

Misc
================================================================================
          Name   Type     Use     Amount    Time
 Vanilla Extract Flavor Primary 1.000 oz 0.000 s
     Oak Cubes Flavor Primary 2.000 oz 0.000 s

Yeast
================================================================================
                          Name Type   Form     Amount   Stage
 WLP001 - California Ale Yeast  Ale Liquid 2.367 tbsp Primary

From their website they state they use Willamette and Cascade hops. I don't remember any really hop flavors in the beer (will have to taste some again soon) so I am not sure which order they are hopped and what the times are. I haven't made this yet, but was hoping for others who have a better pallete to help with the hopping schedule. Thanks in advance.
 
The only one I've seen is the BYO version. My girlfriend is pushing me to make this though so I'll be interested in seeing what everyone comes up with.

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Most beers like this would bitter with Williamette and finish with Cascade. I would switch them personally.

Well, I have cascade as the last hop addition - Cascade at 30 minutes. How much later in the boil would you suggest?

I see where there might be some confusion in the way the recipe is listed, but willamette is the main bittering hop
 
Maybe I should move the cascade closer to a 20-15 minute addition so it acts more of a flavor? With the complex malt bill, i can't see the citrus of cascade coming through too much. I am brewing a Kolsch this weekend, but I might try to get a half batch of this test recipe going sometime soon. I will definitely keep everyone posted.
 
Well, I have cascade as the last hop addition - Cascade at 30 minutes. How much later in the boil would you suggest?

I see where there might be some confusion in the way the recipe is listed, but willamette is the main bittering hop

Sorry! I thought the williamette said 1 minute, not 1 hour haha. my bad there. leave the williamette as is, the cascade is really only going to provide bitterness at 30 mins. if you're looking for a bit more hop flavor, bump it to 20 minutes.
 
Had an OBS last night to really analyze the tastes. All the flavors are pretty balanced I feel. The vanilla is almost unnoticeable, while the wood from the oak stands out a tiny bit. I think the roast comes through the most and overshadows the other subtle tastes. But overall I just get a real balanced feel. Id love to hear others thoughts on this and if you have experience with vanilla and wood. Im wondering if those additions are a little high, in my proposed recipe?
 
brettwasbtd said:
Had an OBS last night to really analyze the tastes. All the flavors are pretty balanced I feel. The vanilla is almost unnoticeable, while the wood from the oak stands out a tiny bit. I think the roast comes through the most and overshadows the other subtle tastes. But overall I just get a real balanced feel. Id love to hear others thoughts on this and if you have experience with vanilla and wood. Im wondering if those additions are a little high, in my proposed recipe?

This is one of my favorite beers.
Have you tried swirling this beer? My taste buds tell me that what's in the bottom is mostly the oak and vanilla.
 
I placed the order for the ingredients listed above with one change - Smoked malt was upped to 6oz instead of 4oz as I reworked the ratios from the grain sheet. Now that I have ordered, I realized that I am pretty sure that Fordham/Old Dominion appear to use All pilsner malt as their base malt. Hopefully this won't make a huge difference in my attempts to clone this beer. I think I am going to ferment 5 gallons and then after a week or so transfer the beer into 2, 3 gallon better bottles so I can oak/vanilla with two different amounts. Anyone have suggestions on the oak chip and vanilla bean amounts?
 
Been pretty busy, but wanted to give an update. I plan to brew this on November 5th. Been reading up on oaking and adding vanilla. Really not sure the best dosages for this and open to suggestions :) thanks all!
 
So, not sure how many people are actively following this and awaiting my results. But this beer is in the keg and carbing. It is a little too oaky, and not enough vanilla-ee. This is partially cause i got sick and had to leave the oak and vanilla in too long.

I emailed Old Dominion and the brewer there was more than happy to give me some advice on how they oak and vanilla the beer:

We add the Oak and Vanilla in the secondary portion of the process. It’s quite important to soak your oak in 180+ water and reduce the ph by adding acid. This will help take away the unwanted tannins in the wood. We let them soak for 45min before adding the bag of chips to the fermenter. We also soak out vanilla beans that are already cut length wise for about 15min before adding the bag to the fermenter.

We make sure the secondary is at about 50 degrees F when they are added, This helps infuse the flavors. We will sit on the oak and vanilla for 2-3 weeks before we filter the beer.

I ended up soaking 1/2 ounce of untoasted american oak and 3 vanilla beans. I soaked them per the instructions above, however, I didnt adjust the pH and I did end up dumping the water I had used in soaking in with the chips and beans into the fermentor. (maybe that is why the oak was too pronounced, however im pretty sure its cause it was in the fermentor for 14 days instead of my planned 7).

The uncarbed sample provided a little more chocolate taste then I remember and not as much roast, the oak imparts a "puckering" after taste, but it still quite tasty and I found myself draining the hydrometer sample! I will update in a few weeks when it is fully carbed and can do some side-by-side comparison with the Real OBS.

Anyone that is following feel free to ask any questions!
 
So...how did this turn out? I'm looking at creating my first Stout recipe and Dominion OBS is what I'm shooting for!
 
So...how did this turn out? I'm looking at creating my first Stout recipe and Dominion OBS is what I'm shooting for!

I have one bottle left. I will try to drink it this week sometime as I realize I never followed up! From my memory this beer was REALLY tasty, however, it was not a successful clone. The malt bill on this beer was far more rich than the real beer (which I really enjoyed). I think this is largely due to my use of american 2-row instead of pilsner malt, which is the base malt that Old Dominion/Fordham uses. After the wood aged for a few months it blended nicely with the vanilla and was not over powering. At 6% ABV it was a real smooth beer. So for a clone attempt I would say switch the 2 row for pilsner, but keep all the other percents the same. Hopping I still am unsure about, it was a fairly balanced bitterness.

Like I said, I will try to get back with a "fresher" tasting review here soon. Let me know if you have any other questions!
 

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