No love for Copper Ales?

I live in the great PacNW, and I'm personally blessed to live within spitting distance of Redhook Brewery, no they're not the best around, but it was their Chinook Copper Ale that was the first beer that I tried and said "Dang, I actually like this". Since then they rebranded that beer as Copperhook and have made it a seasonal beer. Its also SWMBO's favorite beer and I'd really love to be able to clone it. I'm still fairly new to this whole thing and I've looked through the recipe databases that I can find but definately no mention of this beer, heck its hard to find ANY copper ale beers. Anyone have any ideas? Its got a hoppier crisper bite than the ESB, but maltier than a pale ale.

Any Help guys?

Isn't redhook owned by Anheiser-busch?

Not that it makes any difference just curious.

"Copper Ale" is not a really well defined style, although I have had a few commercial beers that were called that. I'd think of it as an APA or similar beer, but with a maltier grainbill using munich malt (which also gives a copper color).

You might want to take a look at this recipe of mine, whihc was one of the best beers I've ever made:

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?group=3&item=5637

If you upped the munich on this, I think it's pretty-much be a copper ale.

I've also brewed Brew Pastor's Bastard Lager (you can search for it here), which is a California Common with quite a bit in common with that APA recipe of mine.

If you're an extract brewer, you can get munich LME from Northern Brewer and maybe from other places.

Check out midwestsupplies Copper Ale kit. I've purchased this, but not yet brewed it as I'm working on modifying the recipe a tad to up the IBU slightly.

As you'll see from the ingredient list, it's hopped (bittering) with Chinook and rounded out with Williamette; also has the munich someone mentioned above:

"Our ingredients for this recipe include 6 lbs Gold malt extract, 1 lb Light DME, 8 oz Munich, 1/8 lb Roasted Barley, Caramel 80L (pre-mixed), 1 oz Chinook, 1 oz Willamette, priming sugar, muslin bag, and yeast."

Since I plan to do only a partial boil on this one (1.5 gallons maybe) since it's too cold out to use the turkey frier, I plan on upping the hops a tad (I've already purchased additional Chinook and Williamette) to up the IBU. When I ran the original recipe in beersmith with only 1.5 gallon boil I didn't get a very impressive IBU (actually seemed very low, as in below 15), so I'm aiming for about 30 or a little below after some modification. I also plan to add some flameout hops (Perle) for a different hop profile/aroma. Let me know if you want my modified recipe or anything...

EDIT: Here is my recipe for a 1.5 Gallon Boil - Suggestions welcome from everyone...

Type: Extract
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 1.50 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 12.7 % 60 Min Boil
6.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 76.1 % 60 Min Boil
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 % Steep All Grain at 155
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3.2 %
0.13 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.6 %
1.25 oz Chinook [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
0.75 oz Chinook [12.40%] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.40%] (10 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.00 oz Perle [6.00%] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 27.7 IBU
Est Color: 13.2 SRM

Reverend JC said:

Isn't redhook owned by Anheiser-busch?

Not that it makes any difference just curious.

Click to expand...

It may have changed, but originally when the deal was set-up they just had the distribution end of things and not total ownership.

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/beer/beer_brands.html This shows them as an alliance partner, basically they use Anheuser-Busch to distribute some of their beers, as does Widmer Brothers. (this however was news to me, I hadn't ever heard this)

Red Hook still trades publicly, under the symbol HOOK. I *think* AB owns a chunk of their stock, but I'll have to look that up to confirm. They aren't a 100% owner, at least.

SilkkyBrew said:

Type: Extract
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 1.50 gal Asst Brewer:

Click to expand...

Would there be any problem with me brewing this as a full boil? Does that change things too much with the recipe? (noob question!)

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 12.7 % 60 Min Boil
6.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 76.1 % 60 Min Boil
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 % Steep All Grain at 155
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3.2 %
0.13 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.6 %
1.25 oz Chinook [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
0.75 oz Chinook [12.40%] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.40%] (10 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.00 oz Perle [6.00%] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 27.7 IBU
Est Color: 13.2 SRM

Click to expand...

Looks like a hoppy red ale to me. I'm not a big hop head so tend to make most my beers on the maltier side.

Maybe this is splitting hairs or arguing over semantics, but would you really describe an ale with a BU:GU of about .5 as "hoppy?"

(Yes, I know: it does have non-trivial flavor and aroma hops additions.)

I don't have my software in from of me, but does 2 ounces of Chinook (1.25 at 60 minutes, .75 at 30) only net 27 IBUs? Is that right? I don't know how to do the calcs by hand, but that seems really low.

the_bird said:

I don't have my software in from of me, but does 2 ounces of Chinook (1.25 at 60 minutes, .75 at 30) only net 27 IBUs? Is that right? I don't know how to do the calcs by hand, but that seems really low.

Click to expand...

That's right, according to tinseth method.

Keep in mind that was 1.5 gallon boil. So for a 1.053 beer that's something like a 1.18 gravity wort that's boiled--in other words, low hops utilization.

Guess I'm not used to boils that small, even when I was doing partials, it was usually 3 gallon. Cweston's right, then - that's not really hoppy at all. Should be good, but it'll be malty/balanced, not hoppy.

Will doing a full boil on that give it more hoppiness?

Rook said:

Will doing a full boil on that give it more hoppiness?

Click to expand...

Way more. I recommend playing with the beer recipator spreadsheet (or other commercial software) for answers to these sorts of questions.

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator

Going to a 5.5 gal boil without changing anything else changes the IBUs of that recipe from 27 to 85!

cweston said:

Maybe this is splitting hairs or arguing over semantics, but would you really describe an ale with a BU:GU of about .5 as "hoppy?"

(Yes, I know: it does have non-trivial flavor and aroma hops additions.)

Click to expand...

It's relative, for a Red 27.7 is hoppy, for a other styles it's not . . .

http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category9.html#style9D

I make my beers on the maltier side meaning if I make a red I'm looking at more like a OG near 1.060 and 17 to 23 IBUs. I've never heard a reference to a "copper ale" prior to this thread but it seems like it's a sub style of Irish reds

Check out this recipe for Sprecher's Special Amber, it's a fairly hoppy amber that has a lot of things going on in it. It's a staple for me at the bars around here. http://***********/recipe/915.html

It's a lager but you could sub in any clean ale yeast, like Wyeast 1056.

Sprecher's Special Amber. Yum.

the_bird said:

I don't have my software in from of me, but does 2 ounces of Chinook (1.25 at 60 minutes, .75 at 30) only net 27 IBUs? Is that right? I don't know how to do the calcs by hand, but that seems really low.

Click to expand...

Per BeerSmith, the 2oz. in 1.5gal will only net 27 IBU. Hopefully its right!

Your calc was correct when switching it to 5.5 gallon boil; 87IBU per Beersmith.

Guys I want to try out this recipe this weekend but I need some advice. I downloaded ProMash but I can't seem to figure out how to modify the boil quantity in my recipie vs doing a full boil. I wasnt going to do a full boil because that would give me a very very bitter beer, more than I'm shooting for. (next up after this is the IPA). Anyway, I was hoping to do about a 3 gallon boil, but I can't figure out how to modify this recipe so that I keep it around 27.7 IBUs.

Any help?

I have been toying with the idea of trying to clone this beer too, it's a great one. Some key information that comes from redhooks site is:

They use Western 2-row per their Brew-process link

specialty malts on this one are Carapils and Carmel

Hops are Willamette and Saaz

Flavor profile: Distinct Citrus flavor with a light maltiness and hop aroma

SRM = 11

IBU = 20

ABV = 5.8

OG = 1.05318

They also say that they boil for 75 minutes on their website.

So here is what I threw together in Beersmith. What do you think?

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Redhook Copperhook
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer:
Style: Specialty Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.12 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 9.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 78.95 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 9.50 lb



With a OG of 1.053, you would need to get down to 1.009 for a ABV of 5.7% so their yeast kicks sugars a$$

So, I ordered a tap of the copperhook and want to brew up a clone of it by summertime

Has anyone tried to clone this Redhook brew? They have a fair amount of info on their site, but I am far from an expert at reverse engineering beers.

Well I emailed redhook about this one and they were nice enough to give me some additional information. I mainly needed percentages as I knew the ingredients.

It goes down like this

Their sites says a couple specifics about all their beers:

- They use Western 2-row as the base malt
- They malt their own, but I haven't got into that yet
- They do 75 minute boils
- Ferment at 68*

Now for copperhook:
The website lists

SRM 11
IBU 20
ABV 5.7%
OG 1.05318

From my email
89% 2-row
7% carmel
4% Carapils

Bittering - Willamette
Finish - Saaz

So here is what I have come up with.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Redhook Copperhook
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer:
Style: Specialty Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.12 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 11.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.50 lb Great Western American Pale (3.0 SRM) Grain 88.82 %
0.68 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 7.11 %
0.39 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.9 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [StartYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 9.57 lb
----------------------------
ERROR - All Grain/Partial Mash recipe contains no mash steps

Notes:
------


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The only thing, what liquid yeast is the closest or exact of what redhook uses? Also I am wondering what crystal to use, I put in 120L because that what it took to get it up to SRM of 11 with that small amount. I also put in Pale malt because that is what I have and add an extra 1L too

Redhook would be WLP041 Pacific Ale.

I would also use 120L for a copper ale, and possibly some Caramunich.

Brewpastor said:

It may have changed, but originally when the deal was set-up they just had the distribution end of things and not total ownership.

Click to expand...

I thought it was Rogue that had the distributing deal with A-B-Euro, or whatever the name of the mega-conglomerate is now. Shows what I know.

Just had this beer on tap and love it I am cloning your recipe this weekend!! Thanks for the info