Working on the small black pumps

Today my pump wouldn't run, well actually I could hear it humming, but it wouldn't pump water. Hoping it wasn't dead, I started troubleshooting.

- Yes the panel plug still put out power, it lit a hand held light.
- Yes the dc wall wart still worked as it run a different pump (not set up for this system)

So, I took it apart. Thought I would throw pics up here and some comments. This is the tops flo black pump but generic from ebay I think. Same numbers and everything on the specs paperwork, so I got this one for half the price.

Here it is taken apart.


Notes:
1) The screws are easy to get out, just watch because the nuts are only just in place with friction, they may or may not fall out. See that I have one that fell out.
2) It is all sealed up, so there is no liquid contact with the motor. The spinny part (yes, technical) is isolated inside a plastic bucket thing area (still technical)

Where all my hops were stuck in.


Note: This is where the liquid goes out, and it was about halfway plugged with hop stuff. This is DESPITE my force cleaning the pump after every brew. I will hold the hose to the inlet and spray high pressure water through...never could understand why some brew days started with a nasty plug of old hop crud popping into warming water and then I would have to try to fish out.

Why it wouldn't work first few times I took apart.


Note: It seems that the white rod there was frozen stuck into the impeller portion. It didn't come out while I was cleaning, so I never tried to do anything. Third time I took this thing apart, and only then, did I try to see if things spun freely by hand. The top of the rod is keyed to the part in the outlet port. I couldn't figure out how it was ever supposed to spin because once I sat it in there, nothing moved. After poking around it eventually broke free. Once that happened it spun fine. Just note the washer bit, it is also keyed.

So, brew day is two hours behind schedule because I had to figure this all out by trial and error. Hopefully this helps someone else with this little black pump. And, I HIGHLY recommend cleaning it out by taking it apart.

Prolly not necessary, but I disassemble and clean mine after each use.

How long have you been running this pump? Are yiu happy with its performance? I'm looking for a pump to pump through a heat exchanger.

Calf, considering they are about the same price I would get one of the 24v tan pumps instead of the 12v black. I own both and like the tan one a lot more. Outlet is oriented straight up instead of horizontal, and they have quite a bit more power.

Then I guess the next stupid question is what are you using as a power source? How are you adapting it to wall power?

You can find laptop chargers that will work. I built a RIMs system anyway, so I just put a 24v led power supply in the control panel

Riot said:

Calf, considering they are about the same price I would get one of the 24v tan pumps instead of the 12v black. I own both and like the tan one a lot more. Outlet is oriented straight up instead of horizontal, and they have quite a bit more power.

Click to expand...

I also did this after using both the 12v version of the black and tan pumps...they have actual food grade coated magnets and are submersible so less likely to be damaged by a spill. They are also much easier to prime. I use a 6a 24v power supply ($20) that I installed inside my panel for all three of my pumps and my 24v relay coils as well as a small buck board to provide a lower 12v power from the 24v for my cooling fan and a few led indicators.

The orientation of the tan pumps definitely makes them easier to prime. I can pretty much just open the valve and hit the switch and just expect it to go. The black one I pretty much had to start running into a smaller pot on the ground before I could give it power, then move the hose where I wanted it to be.

AnOldUR said:

Prolly not necessary, but I disassemble and clean mine after each use.

Click to expand...

I do the same. I had an issue once where some grain husks worked their way into the impeller shaft and prohibited the pump from running. Hence why I take it apart now after use

Natdavis777 said:

I do the same. I had an issue once where some grain husks worked their way into the impeller shaft and prohibited the pump from running. Hence why I take it apart now after use

Click to expand...

I use a braided mesh after the false bottom on my MT to try to avoid this... So far I have been lucky and its worked for thirty some odd batches with no jams or stuck sparges.. I recently pulled my black one apart about a month ago right when I stopped using it and it looked like the pics above... No gunk or slime coat...

augiedoggy said:

I use a braided mesh after the false bottom on my MT to try to avoid this... So far I have been lucky and its worked for thirty some odd batches with no jams or stuck sparges.. I recently pulled my black one apart about a month ago right when I stopped using it and it looked like the pics above... No gunk or slime coat...

Click to expand...

I think my issue on that brew day was I just started recirculating via the pump from the get go and didnt vorlouf with my 4 qt jug first, to help set the bed.

Are these the ones you guys are referring to?


Product Image Price Item Name Model
12VB078L - 2.11 GPM / 8.0 LPM - 9.84 Feet / 3.30 Meter Head $43.86

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12VB078L - 2.11 GPM / 8.0 LPM - 9.84 Feet / 3.30 Meter Head
12 Volts - 0.75 Amps - 9 Watts / 15 Watts Solar Features: Food Grade Submersible Can be run by Solar Panel Max. Pressure - 58 PSI / 4.0 Bar Max....
12V-TL-B07, 8L
24VB076.5L - 1.72 GPM / 6.5 LPM - 6.56 Feet / 2.0 Meter Head $43.86

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24VB076.5L - 1.72 GPM / 6.5 LPM - 6.56 Feet / 2.0 Meter Head
24 Volts - 0.25 Amps - 6 Watts / 10 Watts Solar Features: Food Grade Submersible Can be run by Solar Panel Max. Pressure - 58 PSI / 4.0 Bar Max....
24V-TL-B07, 6.5L
24VB0712L - 3.17 GPM /12.0 LPM - 16.39 Feet / 5.0 Meter Head $43.86

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24VB0712L - 3.17 GPM /12.0 LPM - 16.39 Feet / 5.0 Meter Head
24 Volts - 0.80 Amps - 19 Watts / 25 Watts Solar Features: Food Grade Submersible Can be run by Solar Panel Max. Pressure - 58 PSI / 4.0 Bar Max....
24V-TL-B07, 12L
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Missed the whole conversation today...LOL. Stupid work.

I have tried both the tan and the black. Went through both my tan ones, and those cannot be disassembled....well the ones I had couldn't. Not sure about the response of the tan one being stronger, this black one is stronger than the tan ones I had.

For power, I went to the nearest Goodwill and rummaged through their bins of wall warts. Just find one with the power to match the label on the pump.

This pump has run through well over a dozen brews and I have always used the spray attachment on the hose to force water through. Seems maybe I just didn't get it clean enough. It wasn't the hop residue that stopped it though, it was more of the malt/sugar getting into that rod and solidifying.

My rig sits up on my counter. Hose comes out the bottom ball valve and the pump sits about 3" lower than the pot. Never had a problem priming, by the time I have the valves open and reach for the on switch it is fine. It pumps back up about 2.5 foot of hose and in the top ball valve on my pot.

The black pump has also been running completely through the boil without cavitation. I know the tan pump couldn't handle the straight boil too well. This way the whole system is sterilized and I can continue straight into whirlpooling when I have the chiller in.

This is the link from my amazon orders, it says unavailable at the moment, but gives you the idea:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E0FXR6K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Natdavis777 said:

I think my issue on that brew day was I just started recirculating via the pump from the get go and didnt vorlouf with my 4 qt jug first, to help set the bed.

Click to expand...

ahh I recirculate through my rims tube during the whole mash but I use pwm speed controllers to start the pumps very slowly and "set the grain bed" this seems to help.

sablesurfer said:

Missed the whole conversation today...LOL. Stupid work.

I have tried both the tan and the black. Went through both my tan ones, and those cannot be disassembled....well the ones I had couldn't. Not sure about the response of the tan one being stronger, this black one is stronger than the tan ones I had.

For power, I went to the nearest Goodwill and rummaged through their bins of wall warts. Just find one with the power to match the label on the pump.

This pump has run through well over a dozen brews and I have always used the spray attachment on the hose to force water through. Seems maybe I just didn't get it clean enough. It wasn't the hop residue that stopped it though, it was more of the malt/sugar getting into that rod and solidifying.

My rig sits up on my counter. Hose comes out the bottom ball valve and the pump sits about 3" lower than the pot. Never had a problem priming, by the time I have the valves open and reach for the on switch it is fine. It pumps back up about 2.5 foot of hose and in the top ball valve on my pot.

The black pump has also been running completely through the boil without cavitation. I know the tan pump couldn't handle the straight boil too well. This way the whole system is sterilized and I can continue straight into whirlpooling when I have the chiller in.

This is the link from my amazon orders, it says unavailable at the moment, but gives you the idea:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E0FXR6K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

The tan ones do come apart easily... you just have to remove the little press fit stainless ring that holds it together, (not that I have needed to disassemble mine in the year I have been using them but others here have posted pics to show the actual food grade magnet assy)

Yes when comparing just 12v to 12v the black one is stronger and I read that the black one is actually rated at 12-24vdc but havent tried is at the 24v level... the 24v tan ones do outperform the black ones at 12v however.
wall worts work ok to power them but I found they do require more amperage than speced to work at thier top potential.

But again the tan one is a true food grade pump with a coated magnet assy... the black ones can be a gamble there are more than a couple with the exact same shape but made of different plastics it seems and the magnets are exposed to the wort making them NOT truly food grade (the manufactuer also states this)(Do you know whats in that magnet?) however they MAY be safe to use since they are made of ABS plastic (also not tested and approved at temps above 170 from what I have read)... I stopped using mine My opinion was why risk it over $18? Thats what a 24v FDA pump cost me and they outperform the black ones to boot and are much easier to prime.

And I do get cavitation with my black pump since I mounted it on the kettle ballvalve... It has even overheated while trying to use it to recirculate my boil and shut off (black one has thermal protection which is a plus)

I tested my new cartridge heater rims setup and plumbing last night with one of my new 24V tan pumps and had no cavitation but I only heated the water from 55 to 152 over the course of 61 minutes. I only recall it being an issue with boiling temps.

I bought one of those little 12v black pumps that's rated 1050mA. I have use a laptop transformer rated 12 v 2A. I am thinking that it will provide too much amps or am I thinking incorrectly?


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The pump will draw what it needs, rule on that is the power supply wants to be the same voltage and be able to exceed amperage. I run mine on a 5 amp supply with no problems

Looks like I am good to go. Thanks


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This happened to me on my very first brew w/ pumps. i had already finished and was trying to pump out the break leavings to clean up. Found out quick, these pumps are meant for that. I dis-assembled exactly like you did. I will probably go to the tan ones at some point. I didn't read enough to know the black ones were not food grade. Oh Well.

Riot said:

The pump will draw what it needs, rule on that is the power supply wants to be the same voltage and be able to exceed amperage. I run mine on a 5 amp supply with no problems

Click to expand...

same here only I upgraded to the 24v version of the tan pumps and use a 24v 6a powersupply ($15 shipped on ebay) to power all three of my pumps as well as my 24v coils for my relays and I use a $4 buck transformer to step down the 24v to 12v to power my cooling fan and a 12v indicator light...

Now that I have both the 12v and 24v versions of the food grade pumps and a flowmeter I will run a test to see how much better the 24v actually performs...I know with my 24v pump and a very thick mash I can recirculate at 1.5-1.6 gallons per minute which is more than enough to provide time for the rims to work and keep things flowing to prevent temp variations in my mash.

when pumping sparge water I can raise the flow all the way to 2.3 gallons per minute (no reason to though) and this is with traveling through a couple ballvalves and hoses and the 2ft or so of headspace up to the top of the kettle where my camlock is

Reaver said:

This happened to me on my very first brew w/ pumps. i had already finished and was trying to pump out the break leavings to clean up. Found out quick, these pumps are meant for that. I dis-assembled exactly like you did. I will probably go to the tan ones at some point. I didn't read enough to know the black ones were not food grade. Oh Well.

Click to expand...

The black ones may not be harmful but the point is with exposed magnets they weren't designed for food use.. and who knows how well they abs plastic composition holds up without leaching at temps over 170 degrees? if they were built with this in mind those questions would be moot...

I used one of those black ones for about 9 months myself.

Reaver said:

I didn't read enough to know the black ones were not food grade. Oh Well.

Click to expand...

Mine is listed as food grade.

As for pumping solids, that is never a good idea with any pump.

sablesurfer said:

Mine is listed as food grade.

As for pumping solids, that is never a good idea with any pump.

Click to expand...

Really which one do you have? listed as foodsafe by who? the seller?
If the magnet is not coated its not food safe regardless of the many sellers that say otherwise until you ask them for proof (then they send you an email stating they made a mistake and its not food safe but still continue to sell them as so on amazon and ebay...

BTW the one you linked in the amazon link is the same one I have and stopped using..
According to another member The manufacturer claims that even though it has NO food safe certifications and has not been tested for such use that it should be ok for food grade use... that same manufacture has told other memebrs that since it does not have a coated magnet it is not food safe...There are NO food grade pumps of this type that use the liquid for cooling that have exposed magnets.
That pump was designed for pumping kerosene ,oil and solar panel cooling according to the manufactures website... This is an old topic and due to one person who decided to buy a bunch of these and resell them for brewing now there are a bunch who followed suit... bottom line is any pump of this type designed for food grade use has a coated magnet.

Since none of these cheap pumps are tested or graded by any US food agency when they arrive into this country, it boils down to which Chinaman or distributor you want to believe.

When an established company like US Solar says their black pump is food safe, I choose to believe that they've checked that their manufacture is making the pumps to the standards that they've set. This is no more or less valid than someone else’s trusting random emails and specs coming out of China describing the materials and compliance of the tan pumps. China’s track record for honesty on these things is not great and no one is checking them for accuracy.

Like others on HBT, I’ve had both black US Solar and the clones sit with moisture in them for weeks with no sign of rust on the magnets. If they were a bare iron or steel that would not be the case. I don’t know their composition, but feel safe that they are not leaching anything dangerous into my beer. When I emailed US Solar about the magnets I got the reply below.

Yes the pump is made with all food grade materials.

Michael Kehoe
US Solar Pumps
570-780-9524

Click to expand...

Make your own decision. Don't be overly swayed by any one persons opinion no matter how many times they repeat it. If you're still that worried, buy a pump made in the US with no imported parts.