(yet another) My 1st AG BIAB tonight!

[slym2none]

Yes, after 3 months of saying I am going to go AG, and 2-1/2 months of always seeming to have extract I don't want to waste or give up, I am finally plunging into my very first, true all-grain batch tonight. Made with whole-cone hops for the most part, I am making a 3-gallon batch in hopes I get 2.5 out of it. 3.5G boil in a 4-G pot ought to be fun!

Here's my recipe:

My Experimental IPA Ver. 1.0
---------------------------------------
Style: IPA
Brewer: slym2none
BIAB, 75% brewhouse efficiency
calc. OG - 1.071, act. - 1.074
calc. FG - 1.015, act. -
calc. ABV - 7.3%
55 IBUs, assuming 6%AA for the experimental hops (68 if 12%)
4.5 SRM
3.5 gallon boil
3.0 gallons - .5 gal for hops absorption, 2.5 gallons in fermentor

6.0 pounds 2-row
0.5 pound Munich II (20L)
0.5 pound wheat
mashed at 153 for 75 minutes in 2.5 gallons water - sparge with just enough water to get to 3.5 gallons for the boil
60 minute boil
0.5 pounds sugar (late addition)

0.5 oz Nugget 45 minutes (15%AA)
0.5 oz "experimental hops" @ 22 minutes
0.5 oz "experimental hops" @ 7 minutes
2.0 oz "experimental hops" in hop-stand: 55 minutes starting at 170F
0.5 oz Cascade whole-cones in hop-stand
1.0 oz Citra hops for dry-hop 1 (for 3-4 days, after primary fermentation)
1.0 oz Simcoe hops, dry-hop 1

Nottingham Yeast, fermented at 62F

Yes, a 75-minute mash, to ensure I get complete conversion, as my LHBS' grind is good, but not great, for BIAB. I am also mashing at 150 because Notty always over-attenuates, so this should help keep my FG close to where it ought to be, instead of the 5-7 points lower that Notty always gives me. A little sugar late to help dry it out. The experimental hops are the whole cones @aprichman was giving away, and I have no idea where they are exactly in AA% nor flavour, although he gave me an idea of the flavours. Hopefully, Citra & Simcoe will compliment them nicely for a dry-hop. (No, no whole-cone hops in the dry-hopping!)

Tap water, 4.5G, treated first with Campden, then 1 tsp. gypsum to get this more in-line with an IPA water-formula. Hope this works out.

Pics & a story to come when I get started later.

 

[btbnl]

If you're concerned about over-attenuation, wouldn't you mash warmer to get more unfermentable sugars?

 

[slym2none]

I always heard to mash IPAs around 148°F, would you suggest going even higher than the 150 I have planned?

 

[slym2none]

Here's some preliminary pics.

7# of grain in a trash bag (30¢ for the bag from the LHBS, gonna start bringing my own!):

The crush, bag just opened:

The crush, with some of the more whole-looking pieces pushed aside:

2.5G of water in a 4G pot:

1-gallon jug of water for scale:

FYI, 3.5G of water in that thing is up around that top rivet. Gonna be interesting!

 

[slym2none]

Just put the flame to my strike water... an earlier start than usual for me.

 

[chickypad]

If you're concerned about over-attenuation, wouldn't you mash warmer to get more unfermentable sugars?

Exactly what I was thinking. The difference between 148 and 150 is pretty minimal, especially in practice on the homebrew scale. Mid range mashing to me would be 152-154 range, with mashing high 156 and above. You might be better off first replacing the sugar with malt if you want to avoid overattenuation. That being said I like my IPA's dry and I have no problem with your original plan. Congrats on the first batch!

 

[slym2none]

Got done mashing in (no time for pics of that action this time!) - no problems, just had to improvise a little as 7 pounds of grain in a flimsy garbage bag wasn't cutting it at first. So, I used a saucepan for the majority.

Got my thin-walled pot all wrapped up like it's cold in the kitchen!

I promise, that pot is under there. See?

6 minutes later, I unwrapped it & quickly took a temperature reading. One of the strike water calculators said to get the water to 164 for a mash temp of 152 (I went a little higher due to the one user's post), and I am reading 153 on my accurate dial thermometer.

And finally, I am cracking open my first beer after getting everything squared away during the long, 75-minute mash.

55 minutes left as I type this!

 

[slym2none]

Exactly what I was thinking. The difference between 148 and 150 is pretty minimal, especially in practice on the homebrew scale. Mid range mashing to me would be 152-154 range, with mashing high 156 and above. You might be better off first replacing the sugar with malt if you want to avoid overattenuation. That being said I like my IPA's dry and I have no problem with your original plan. Congrats on the first batch!

I ended up at 153 - pretty good, yes?



That said, I bet I'll still come in under the projected 1.015 FG.

 

[mmb]

If you're concerned about over-attenuation, wouldn't you mash warmer to get more unfermentable sugars?

Yes

I always heard to mash IPAs around 148°F, would you suggest going even higher than the 150 I have planned?

Yes, 152 is my goto for APAs and IPAs.

I ended up at 153 - pretty good, yes?



That said, I bet I'll still come in under the projected 1.015 FG.

Chances are good if temp is controlled during fermentation. Notty can be a beast.

 

[slym2none]

Put this to bed at 3:30AM, just downloaded my pics, everything is out of order, so that will have to wait until tomorrow. However, I'll give a quick run-down:

Mash only dropped to 148 (I think) over the 75 minutes.
Used about 1-1/2G on the batch-sparge.
Came up almost perfect at 3.5G, boiled off 3 Qts over 60 minutes, lost about 3 Qts to the hops. Perfect 2.5G in my little LBK.
Pre-boil gravity of 1.058
Predicted post-boil OG - 1.071; actual OG - 1.074 (looks like my brewhouse efficiency is just a bit better than 75%!)
Hops smelled interesting - I think the Citra/Simcoe dry-hop will go pleasantly!

 

[eadavis80]

Congrats on the brew - good thing you took notes. That's the best way to learn. I am having to bring all my brew stuff over to a buddy's today to help them with a BIAB session as well. I am just praying 1) we get it done by the time I have to leave 2) I don't forget anything at home. We would brew at my house, but a) I just cleaned yesterday and brew days have a way of messing up a house fairly easily, IME b) the wife is a little under the weather and doesn't feel like dealing with it. Here's hoping the day is a success! Did you dunk sparge or fly sparge to yield your pre-boil volume? How often, if at all, did you check temperature and stir during the 75 minute mash? Thankfully, we're going to be at around 50 degrees today in Michigan, so I shouldn't lose too much heat during my mash. Last time I did BIAB it was around freezing so I had to crank up the propane for a bit mid-mash.

 

[applescrap]

Congratulations on your first brew.

 

[RM-MN]

Yes, a 75-minute mash, to ensure I get complete conversion, as my LHBS' grind is good, but not great, for BIAB. I am also mashing at 150 because Notty always over-attenuates, so this should help keep my FG close to where it ought to be, instead of the 5-7 points lower that Notty always gives me. A little sugar late to help dry it out. The experimental hops are the whole cones @aprichman was giving away, and I have no idea where they are exactly in AA% nor flavour, although he gave me an idea of the flavours. Hopefully, Citra & Simcoe will compliment them nicely for a dry-hop. (No, no whole-cone hops in the dry-hopping!)

The three highlighted statements are at odds with each other. The long mash will get you a more fermentable beer as the mash temperature will fall which will favor the beta amylase which will lead to more attenuation as it produces more fermentable sugars. The higher temperature will favor the alpha amylase which would normally get you a beer with more body with the dextrines it produces being unfermentable, and adding sugar that will completely ferment out will get you more attenuation. Choose only one and you control your attenuation better. I would have had you mashing at 156 for 45 to 60 minutes (to take into account the coarser crush than I get) to counter Nottingham's tendency to over attenuate.:rockin:

 

[Gavin C]

Hey Slym

Sounds like a great beer. Looks like a fun brewday.

I like the great pictures showing your process.

I have used Notty a few times in the past. I've not experienced any unexpected over attenuation with it. If this is a recurring theme it could point to an inaccuracy at mash temperatures in your thermometer, (mashing lower than you are measuring). If you haven't already you can check it's calibration at 32F. Just a thought.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your methods and thought process. Cool stuff.

 

[radwizard]

Thanks for sharing. I can't believe you paid 30 cents for that trash bag!! Did you use a calculator for planning your volumes? Mashing and Boiling in a small pot (kitchen style) made my first few biab's nerve wrecking...

 

[slym2none]

Congrats on the brew - good thing you took notes. That's the best way to learn. I am having to bring all my brew stuff over to a buddy's today to help them with a BIAB session as well. I am just praying 1) we get it done by the time I have to leave 2) I don't forget anything at home. We would brew at my house, but a) I just cleaned yesterday and brew days have a way of messing up a house fairly easily, IME b) the wife is a little under the weather and doesn't feel like dealing with it. Here's hoping the day is a success! Did you dunk sparge or fly sparge to yield your pre-boil volume? How often, if at all, did you check temperature and stir during the 75 minute mash? Thankfully, we're going to be at around 50 degrees today in Michigan, so I shouldn't lose too much heat during my mash. Last time I did BIAB it was around freezing so I had to crank up the propane for a bit mid-mash.

Thanks, it was a blast! I did a big dunk/batch sparge. Pics later, but basically I put the bag in the pot with 1.5G of water & stirred the crap out of it. I only checked temps once during, and then once at the end of the mash - 6 minutes in & I was at 153, wrapped up in a blanket-thing & the mash was at 148 80 minutes later. I had other stuff going on, so I only stirred during the dough-in, when I took the temp at the 6-minute mark, and then I stirred the crap out of it again at the end of the mash.

Congratulations on your first brew.

Thanks, man!

The three highlighted statements are at odds with each other. The long mash will get you a more fermentable beer as the mash temperature will fall which will favor the beta amylase which will lead to more attenuation as it produces more fermentable sugars. The higher temperature will favor the alpha amylase which would normally get you a beer with more body with the dextrines it produces being unfermentable, and adding sugar that will completely ferment out will get you more attenuation. Choose only one and you control your attenuation better. I would have had you mashing at 156 for 45 to 60 minutes (to take into account the coarser crush than I get) to counter Nottingham's tendency to over attenuate.:rockin:

I have such large pieces in my malt-bill's grind, I feel the need to mash longer to get a full soak. It might not be even necessary, but it's what I feel is right for this grind. I did end up mashing at 153, so that's definitely enough of a difference from 148 to have more unfermentables, I'd think. Depending on how it goes, maybe my next batch, I'll go all the way up to 156. The sugar was to dry it out, i.e., not just attenuate better, but to give it that without the maltiness. Again, maybe I am doing unnecessary things, but that's why I am here - to learn & share!

Hey Slym

Sounds like a great beer. Looks like a fun brewday.

I like the great pictures showing your process.

I have used Notty a few times in the past. I've not experienced any unexpected over attenuation with it. If this is a recurring theme it could point to an inaccuracy at mash temperatures in your thermometer, (mashing lower than you are measuring). If you haven't already you can check it's calibration at 32F. Just a thought.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your methods and thought process. Cool stuff.

Thank YOU, Gavin! Always nice hearing from you in these kinds of threads. More pics to come, as soon as I get them straightened out!

My thermometer is calibrated and still reads a perfect 212 on the boil & 32 in ice-water. I use it for everything, so I keep an eye on that once a year or so.

Thanks for sharing. I can't believe you paid 30 cents for that trash bag!! Did you use a calculator for planning your volumes? Mashing and Boiling in a small pot (kitchen style) made my first few biab's nerve wrecking...

Thanks, man! I appreciate it. Yeah, I will start carrying a large plastic tote or my own garbage bag next time. That was kinda funny, but it's how they roll!

I used a few calculators, but ultimately had to guess in the end, due to the hops absorbing so much wort. I did have an idea from people's experiences here, plus the last batch I made I used some whole-cone Cascades in, so I had a pretty good idea where I needed to be at this time. I figured I'd have a little too much wort in the end, but I pretty much nailed it. I got lucky!

 

[radwizard]

Check out the Priceless BIAB Calculator, if you haven't already. That was the single most useful tool for me to get into BIAB.

 

[Hello]

I always heard to mash IPAs around 148°F, would you suggest going even higher than the 150 I have planned?

I mash my IPAs at about 150. I've even mashed at 152. Usually stop around 1.010 or 1.008 depending upon the yeast. Now I use US05 primarily and find I get 1.010 or 1.008 consistently. It's just how I like it.

 

[thunderwagn]

Congrats on your 1st BIAB. Ha, I try to keep paper sacks in my trunk now in case I "just happen to show up" at the lhbs.
Wilserbrew gets countless plugs here, but for good reason. I would have to say buying one of his bags is the single best purchase I think I've made, and for sure put off (regretfully) too long.
and a big +1 for the priceless brewing calc.

 

[slym2none]

Here comes round 2 of pics - I just realised (after uploading them all) that I didn't edit them for size, but thumbnails, y'know? The pics were all jumbled up after getting them off my camera & into my laptop, and I take 3-4 pics of each shot, so it took a little doing to straighten out, then I had other stuff to do yesterday. Anyway: the story continues...

This is my temp after the mash was over, it ended up being 80 minutes because I was watching a show & it was almost over so instead of coming back for 4-5 minutes of the show, the mash sat. I am reading 149 - the mattress pad (insulation) worked!

This is what a 1.425:1 water/grain ratio mash looks like:

7 pounds of soaking wet grain, as my arm is about to give out after letting it drip-drain for 4-5 minutes:

Resting my arm & letting gravity & a twist get some more wort out:

First "runnings" of about 2 gallons, maybe a little less:

The sparge! Dunked the whole ball of grains into a pot of 176-degree water & stirred like mad. No way to stir & take pics by myself, so this was the pre-stir pic:

The twist-and-drain method on the sparge:

After holding the bag, twisting it with one hand, squeezing as best I can, I figured, why not do this???

A "D'oh!" moment, but will get filed away for next time. So, this is a shade under 3.5 gallons of sweet wort:

Nice colour, if I do say so myself! (Now if it would only hurry up & boil!!!)

This is my hops line-up. Nugget pellets to bitter, the front bag is what I will split between the 20-minute & the 5-minute addition, and the three bags in the back are my hop-stand sacrifices:

No pics of the first dumping of hops, boring. I did get this in sometime, though:

More to come...

 

[slym2none]

This is what the first 1/2 oz of the experimental hops look like after being stirred in - such a nice green colour, rather than the grayish drab they get later...

Round 2, 5 minutes to go! (Sugar went in now as well, no pic, boring) (Also note what 1/2 oz of hops looks like sitting in top of the wort!)

So, I turned it all off, stirred it a bit more, then put the pot in my sink with some cool water, just to get it down to 170 for my hop-stand. When I checked, I got 168° on my thermometer. Close enough!

This is what 2-1/2 oz of whole-cone hops looks like sitting on top of the wort on my kettle, then after stirring in:

I wrapped the pot back up, and since my kitchen timer is broken, I found an old phone that worked and set the timer on it.

40+ minutes to wait, time for another round of Samurai Champloo, and another beer!

More to come...

 

[slym2none]

Ah!!! 2 episodes later, just over 50 minutes (timer wasn't really necessary after all!) and the hop-stand is over. I think it dropped to about 165 but I don't remember. I did remember it was time for another one of these!

Time to cool it down...

A few minutes & two water-bath changes (one with ice), it is down to about 70 degrees and looks totally the same:

I wanted the wort down closer to 60, so I left it in the water-bath while using my sparklingly brilliant straining & extraction technique:

I had to squeeze the hops to get every last drop of wort, but I made my 10 quarts/2.5G!

My slurry from the rye pale ale I decided to re-use, and am now wondering if I got enough yeast in there after all (but I'm sure I did, right?) - notice my gravity sample cooling & settling in the background:

1.076, then subtract 2 points for correction, my OG was 1.074 - predicted was 1.071. Happy!

Right at 3:30AM, and she is put to bed:

Now, it's 38 hours later, and I am just now seeing the little wisps that indicate activity has started with the yeast forming on the surface. Re-using Notty like this isn't worth it, and I already proved this to myself last year. Why did I do it again? Next batch will use fresh, dry yeast.

Anyway, other than not getting a pic of the Bell's Consecrated Doppelbock that finished my night (and me!), that was pretty much the end of the show. I'll update as it moves along. Thanks for playing!!!

 

[eadavis80]

I have had bad luck with Notty and one time I used it, it was harvested, like yours. I've had good luck with other harvested yeasts, but I'm done with Notty - whether it's fresh or harvested. In any event - nice job with the photos on the fun looking brew day!

 

[thunderwagn]

Awesome brew session:rockin:
Way to represent the Colorado brews

 

[RM-MN]

I have had bad luck with Notty and one time I used it, it was harvested, like yours. I've had good luck with other harvested yeasts, but I'm done with Notty - whether it's fresh or harvested. In any event - nice job with the photos on the fun looking brew day!

What kind of bad luck? Slow start? No problem. Poor attenuation? Maybe you need to adjust the fermentation temperature schedule. Bad taste? Maybe fermented too warm. Notty likes it cool and if you get it a bit warm it takes of like a rocket, heats up the beer, creates lots of off flavors and fusel alcohol, and then drops out.

 

[slym2none]

As of 8:30PM last night, my beer had 3/8" of foam all the way across the top. Yay!

I am with RM-MN - maybe my Notty takes a while to start because it's sorta cold, but it ferments so clean, and still only takes 5 days or so for the krausen to start dropping. Of course, I let it sit longer to fully attenuate, ans then if there are dry-hops, they go in after that.

As of right now, well...

It's still a little thin on the edges, but it looks a good inch thick already in the middle. Here's a "naked" shot:

Lovely! 2.5G is really the max I can load into one of these MrB LBKs, but I don't mind, really. I have two now, and this way I can do different stuff, or split a 5G batch in half, like I am thinking about with BM's Centennial Blonde!

 

[slym2none]

Yesterday, still had krausen. Today, it's all dropped out - the surface is covered in flat "rafts" of stuff, but there's no thickness to it. I imagine FG has just about been reached, now to wait a few more days for clean-up & dropping clear. Then, a dry-hop addition, & I am again using a small sugar addition since my pale ale seemed really hoppy & I did this technique on it. I will probably bottle next Sunday night.

 

[Gavin C]

Curious about the sugar addition @Slym2none .

Are you doing it to dry the beer out a little and enhance the hoppyness or to create CO2 in the FV during dry-hopping to minimize O2 exposure. Or a bit of both perhaps?

Cool pics again. I'm a sucker for krausen pics

 

[slym2none]

I read something on here that dry-hopping either at the end of fermentation or starting up a small secondary fermentation helps the hops somehow. Whether it is actually interacting with the hops, or it is just preventing oxidation due to CO² production, I don't know, but I do feel that pale ale was hoppier than I thought it was going to be.

That last beer, I used some sugar syrup (better than 2:1 sugar to water) I keep around for sweetening things after krausen dropped, 20mL of it, and got a small second fermentation w/krausen that dropped after three days & I cold-crashed it after the fourth day.

I guess at some point, to be scientific, I should do side-by-side recipes where one gets the sugar-addition at dry-hopping & the other doesn't - but I probably won't.


Thanks again for the comments, @Gavin C !

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

dumping of hops

boom!

 

[m00ps]

Also wondering about the post-pitch sugar addition.

I do this with anytime I use belgian candi syrup and honey to preserve the aromatics as best I can. But I dont think you want to dry hop THEN add sugar. All the hop aroma will go straight out the fermentor.

 

[slym2none]

Also wondering about the post-pitch sugar addition.

I do this with anytime I use belgian candi syrup and honey to preserve the aromatics as best I can. But I dont think you want to dry hop THEN add sugar. All the hop aroma will go straight out the fermentor.

I dunno, that pale ale I made seemed way more hoppy than I thought it was going to be, both in flavour & aroma. There's supposedly some science to it...

 

[meridianomrebel]

I haven't seen one of those LBKs in use in awhile. I have two stuck up in the top of my pantry.

 

[slym2none]

They ferment beer as good as a 5-gallon bucket. The only difference is, I can only put 2.5G in mine.

 

[slym2none]

Moved my full LBK to a different, smaller cooler (it doesn't fit the large ice-bottles needed for primary fermentation) and DAMN, is the bottom of that thing full of trub! It just about blocks the spigot up completely, and I had it tilted back to help alleviate that very problem.

I guess going AG gets you a bit more trub, eh? I might actually have to strain some of the break material out for this upcoming batch.

Gonna have to stick with smaller grain bills otherwise... and I haven't even dry-hopped this sucker yet!

 

[jcav]

Congrat's on the first all grain brew! Once you taste the difference you'll be hooked!

John

 

[thunderwagn]

Moved my full LBK to a different, smaller cooler (it doesn't fit the large ice-bottles needed for primary fermentation) and DAMN, is the bottom of that thing full of trub! It just about blocks the spigot up completely, and I had it tilted back to help alleviate that very problem.

I guess going AG gets you a bit more trub, eh? I might actually have to strain some of the break material out for this upcoming batch.

Gonna have to stick with smaller grain bills otherwise... and I haven't even dry-hopped this sucker yet!

*cough* wilserbag *cough*
:fro:

 

[RM-MN]

Moved my full LBK to a different, smaller cooler (it doesn't fit the large ice-bottles needed for primary fermentation) and DAMN, is the bottom of that thing full of trub! It just about blocks the spigot up completely, and I had it tilted back to help alleviate that very problem.

I guess going AG gets you a bit more trub, eh? I might actually have to strain some of the break material out for this upcoming batch.

Gonna have to stick with smaller grain bills otherwise... and I haven't even dry-hopped this sucker yet!

Sure does. Extract has most of the trub removed before it is canned/bottled so you never see it.

 

[slym2none]

2nd AG batch was on the books as of last Saturday, and I was wondering why I came in low on my OG - I forgot the sugar addition during the boil! I was 7 points low, .5 lb of sugar to my batch would have added 9 points, so I was actually 2 points high - yay me!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Add it now
Dump it in...the yeast will find it.

I believe there is a school of thought for late sugar additions.