Yeast washing vs saving extra from stir plate

[rtstrider]

Hello fellow home brewers! I've been playing around with yeast now for a couple of months and am loving the learning process! Currently I've been overbuilding starters by .5L and saving that slurry to build a starter for future batches. Figure that would give the purest yeast pitch vs yeast washing. Now what I do is decant the starter wort when it's time to build a starter with the saved yeast, use pilsner dme and build a 1.040 1l starter, let that ferment out for 48 hours or so, then add .5l liters of new starter wort to bring the total up to 1.5l of 1.040 wort, ferment that for 48 hours or so, pitch off .5l liters into a pint mason jar, then cold crash, decant, pitch the 1l starter into the batch I'm making.

I've also been toying with yeast washing. As a matter of fact I have a batch of witbier on washed Wyeast 3944 going now. Built a 1l 1.040 starter (due to this sitting in the fridge for a month or two) and pitched. So far so good! So my question is say I had a batch of us-05 (dry yeast is cheaper and not really worth washing I know but I'm wanting to learn)/1056/wlp001 would it be beneficial to continue building up the 1.5l of wort, saving/repitching the .5l or should I just look into washing? Other thing is I worry that say I brew a pale ale/ipa and wash. From reading it sounds like once you go that route you couldn't repitch that into say a blonde without possibly getting flavors from the previous batches? The end goal is to invest in some test tubes and play with freezing yeast but I'm really wanting to learn and have a better understanding of the process on the way

I've read the sticky and any extra advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I tried yeast washing once and decided it wasn't worth the effort. I over-build my starters, save a pint, and pitch the rest. With yeast washing, there seems to be a greater risk of contamination, more things to clean and sanitize, and then cross flavors from one batch to the next.

The nice thing about yeast washing is that you can do it after the fact, where with overbuilding starters, you have to start a week ahead of time. I pressure-can wort in bulk, so making starters up is super quick for me. YMMV.

 

[rtstrider]

That's essentially the conclusion I'm getting to also. Just overbuild and save. Which leads to the next question. In yeast washing I've read you really don't want to go past 5 generations or so. Does the same apply to overbuilt starters?

 

[balrog]

I have only ever gotten 6-8 overbuilds and I do exactly your first process. I build 1.5 L starters and save 0.5 L.

When I get even slightly lax in sanitation, it goes south immediately. When I see a dark gray layer on my saved 0.5L I know I'm done. If I smell cheese/meat/paint, I know I'm done. But as I say, I get fairly easily 6 overbuilds. Others have gotten way more.

 

[brewswithshoes]

I've done yeast washing and unless it's a proven better 2nd gen+ strain (i.e. 3724) I have switched to the method you seem to prefer now.
With yeast being one of the most expensive parts of the brew building up from new as you've done works the best for me too. I try to not go beyond 4 splits/build ups, and do that by over building by a liter and splitting into 2 jars. Each gets built a second time when needed for use.

Not sure if that technically keeps me lower in generation cycles but has worked well so far to extend the yeast expenditure.

 

[bionut]

You can overbuild the first starter by 1 L ore more and split the extra yeast in two. This way you can get to at least 10 batches from the same yeast without going over 5 generations. Over here i can't get localy liquid yeast for a fair price so i need to order it from abroad. I try to use it as many times for saving money.

 

[Horseflesh]

I’ve had great luck just scooping yeast from the fermenter... no washing, just sanitized storage.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I’ve had great luck just scooping yeast from the fermenter... no washing, just sanitized storage.

Me too.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

From reading it sounds like once you go that route you couldn't repitch that into say a blonde without possibly getting flavors from the previous batches?

I've done it many a time without issue (just reusing slurry, not even washing), including IPA to blonde.

 

[madscientist451]

I quit yeast washing a few years back. I just save a quart of slurry in the fridge. If I'm going to use the same yeast within a week or so, I shake it up and dump about half of it in. I haven't had any problems yet. I label and date the quart jars and every now and then I'll pull an old one out, mix up some extract and see if its still alive. Yeast doesn't go bad as quick as some say, but some yeasts are more resilient than others.

 

[David SEMich]

I washed yeast once or twice before I learned about overbuilding. As others have mentioned, check your yeast before pitching. I taste a spoon of the saved beer over the yeast for anything suspicious. I also check the new starter. I keep a couple of dry yeast packs in the freezer is case I don't want to wait to start a new yeast.

I did my first top-crop on my last batch. WLP023 makes a great krausen to harvest. Or course I couldn't have done that with a glass carboy.

 

[stickyfinger]

this may sound crazy but i started just building my starters to 1L for each 5G beer to be pitched and then 1L for saving for later. So if I’m doing a 10G batch and want to save for next time I’ll do a 3L starter or if I feel motivated or they are bigger beers I might do a 1L starter and then add 2L of stronger wort the next day to get up to 3L with smaller growth steps. I pretty much stopped paying attention to pitch rate and just pitch fresh active yeast and it seems to work well

 

[TurnipGreen]

this may sound crazy but i started just building my starters to 1L for each 5G beer to be pitched and then 1L for saving for later. So if I’m doing a 10G batch and want to save for next time I’ll do a 3L starter or if I feel motivated or they are bigger beers I might do a 1L starter and then add 2L of stronger wort the next day to get up to 3L with smaller growth steps. I pretty much stopped paying attention to pitch rate and just pitch fresh active yeast and it seems to work well

I think you hit the nail on the head. Just pitch fresh active yeast and there’s a couple ways to do that.

I save slurry because it’s easy and I’m lazy. I also think it’s fun to plan subsequent beers based on the slurry I have.

That said, if I wanted the purist yeast and was concerned about any carry over flavors, my vote would be to build up starters. Too the starters are less process then washing so less opportunities for stuff to mess up or yeast to mutate in a variety of conditions.

 

[rtstrider]

I washed the yeast a bit more until there there was right under a pint left. Ended up saving that and am building up a 2 liter starter now. Figure I can save 1L of the stater (2 pint jars worth) and pitch the other decanted liter. Going to label this 2nd gen and just overbuild the starters from now on. Figure that's one way to help dilute any of the other trub/hop material that might be lingering

 

[day_trippr]

I'm solidly in the over-built starter camp. There's something satisfying in having ~150ml of beautifully clean yeast on hand, needing only a step - sometimes two if it's been awhile - to end up with enough yeast for another 10 gallon batch plus another 150ml in the bank. I've been keeping almost a dozen strains going for a couple of years now...

Cheers!

 

[Andre3000]

I do the same as stickyfinger and day_trippr.

I store all my yeast in easy to manage 250 mL jars. For ales I make a 1.25-1.5 mL starter on the stir plate, pour off the 250 mL into a sanitized jar for fridge storage for future starters, cold crash the flask, decant and pitch the remaining 1L next day. For lagers I've been repeating the process twice so I end up with twice the decanted yeast. Never had any diacetyl. This is course for modest gravity brews.

I really like the flexibility of being able to whip up a starter from my 8(ish?) yeast library, which I'll admit is probably excessive, at the drop of a hat depending on the style I feel like brewing.

I have washed yeast a few times and I was intrigued by the process but the perpetual starter method is way easier.

 

[Nagorg]

How long can you store what you keep back from your overbuilt starter? I'm assuming that a few weeks is no problem but what about 1-2 months or longer?

I understand that the viability is decreasing with time and this needs to be considered when making new starters from what you had kept back. But how long can you store it before you decide its not worth trying to build back up again and needs to be tossed?

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I’ve had great luck just scooping yeast from the fermenter... no washing, just sanitized storage.

This.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

How long can you store what you keep back from your overbuilt starter? I'm assuming that a few weeks is no problem but what about 1-2 months or longer?

I understand that the viability is decreasing with time and this needs to be considered when making new starters from what you had kept back. But how long can you store it before you decide its not worth trying to build back up again and needs to be tossed?

The kolsch jar I dumped into my last beer was 4 months old. Took off like crazy and tasted good. Then I reclaimed it.

 

[VTX1300]

How long can you store what you keep back from your overbuilt starter? I'm assuming that a few weeks is no problem but what about 1-2 months or longer?

I understand that the viability is decreasing with time and this needs to be considered when making new starters from what you had kept back. But how long can you store it before you decide its not worth trying to build back up again and needs to be tossed?

I have used yeast that were stored for over 3 months. Anything older than a couple of weeks i build a starter to get the cell count back up. I store mine in half pint mason jars. The small size take up less room in my brewery fridge.
I am also in the over build starter camp. I feel the yeast is cleaner than harvesting and washing.

 

[specialkayme]

I've been keeping almost a dozen strains going for a couple of years now...

Do you ever make a starter to reactivate a yeast, even if you aren't planning on making it for a brew, because it's been in the fridge for too long?

 

[Nagorg]

Sounds like I need to try this overbuild and store camp! I'd love to stretch that yeast dollar out a bit...

 

[Andre3000]

Sounds like I need to try this overbuild and store camp! I'd love to stretch that yeast dollar out a bit...

If you REALLY want to get cheap, you could save and freeze some last runnings or BIAB sparge wort instead of buying DME for starters .

 

[Angus Young]

Have been washing yeast for almost a year but after reading your comments I will start overbuilding 1.5 liters starters.

Thanks for the idea guys!

 

[VTX1300]

Sounds like I need to try this overbuild and store camp! I'd love to stretch that yeast dollar out a bit...

I have been overbuilding starters for over a year. I have only been brewing for about 18 months. The only yeast i buy is if I want to use a strain that I haven't used yet. My house yeast WLP001 and WLP007 have been going for over a year with no problems. My only cost is DME and that is cheap compared to yeast.

 

[stickyfinger]

i used mason jars for awhile. i always worried a bit about explosions. kept them loose after that with a sanitized piece of plastic wrap over the opening. then i moved to 1L plastic bottles that are able to withstand pressure cooking/autoclaving. They work great and keep the yeast contamination free

https://cynmar.com/storage/20897-WIDE-MOUTH-BOTTLE-1000ml-RIGID-POLYPROPYLENE-FDA-FOOD-GRD.html

 

[divrack]

I've never tried to wash yeast nor see why I would want to. I do know that some breweries have yeast that is thousands of generations old though. I know it's not quite as simple as that though, but I've gone over ten gen cropping yeast from kreausen without noticing any change.
Found pitching from previous dregs is generally fine too, though wouldn't do it in all cases. Overbuilding is good, but I'm personally concerned about storing yeast, having found some weird stuff going on in my stored batches. I tend to stick with a couple strains, using various techniques to reuse for a few batches and then once I go to something else I start again from fresh. I think for most homebrewes the problem is more establishing infections than mutations. I realise this is against the common lore, but I'm not entirely convinced by the argument about mutation as although it happens for sure, I don't see how for example the Conan isolate is fine for Conan, but needs to muster a bit before it's proper for us, and then isn't thereafter? Maybe I'm missing something

 

[specialkayme]

Brulosophy got me into harvesting from overbuilt starters a few months ago (http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/). Sadly, now that Imperial Yeast is one of their sponsors they appear more interested in getting their readers to continuously purchase Pitchright Pouches than to harvest yeast. I haven't seen much from them in a while about the viability of stored yeast.

Yeast harvesting, along with bulk hops and grains, have enabled me to significantly cut down the cost of each brew, from $35-45 a brew down to $15-25 a brew. I could cut that down even further if I bought more in bulk than I do, but I don't have that much storage.

 

[stickyfinger]

i was wondering why everything seemed to be Imperial yeast now on Brulosophy. That makes sense.

Brulosophy got me into harvesting from overbuilt starters a few months ago (http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/). Sadly, now that Imperial Yeast is one of their sponsors they appear more interested in getting their readers to continuously purchase Pitchright Pouches than to harvest yeast. I haven't seen much from them in a while about the viability of stored yeast.

Yeast harvesting, along with bulk hops and grains, have enabled me to significantly cut down the cost of each brew, from $35-45 a brew down to $15-25 a brew. I could cut that down even further if I bought more in bulk than I do, but I don't have that much storage.

 

[day_trippr]

Do you ever make a starter to reactivate a yeast, even if you aren't planning on making it for a brew, because it's been in the fridge for too long?

I have used overbuilt & stored yeast that was 11 months old in the jar without extraordinary effort (two steps to a 10 gallon pitch). But last spring I hadn't used my wy1084 stash in a full year, so I did do a two liter "restarter" as I expected to do a dry-ish Porter this year. Made yeast but the Porter didn't happen, maybe next year...

Cheers!