Yeast starter in 64 oz growler

[TravelingLight]

I'm doing a yeast starter for the first time this weekend. Using Giga Vermont. Making a standard starter (4 cups water + 1 cup DME). My question is about what to put it in. Can I put it in a big growler (64 oz)? I only ask because that would leave a fair amount of head space. Is this any concern? I guess it wouldn't be a huge amount of head space now that I think about it. I think that amount of starter would fill up a little more than half of the growler. Yay math!

 

[AkBrew907]

With a starter you are not worried about oxygen, you are actually trying to get more oxygen into the starter to let the yeast do their thing and multiply. The growler will work great.

Are you using a stir plate? Some growlers have a curved bottom making it hard to get the magnet to spin in place

 

[TravelingLight]

With a starter you are not worried about oxygen, you are actually trying to get more oxygen into the starter to let the yeast do their thing and multiply. The growler will work great.

Are you using a stir plate? Some growlers have a curved bottom making it hard to get the magnet to spin in place

Negative, no stir plate. Making the starter then pitching it 24 hours later. Probably just give it a good swirl every now and then during those 24 hours before pitching.

 

[m00ps]

I use growlers as backup starter vessels. They are good because its easy to find stoppers that fit the top of them. The downside is its hard to see inside them for decanting and checking out the yeast cake.

I would try making a larger starter than that though. The standard rule is 1g DME per 10ml water so 64oz = 1890ish ml = 190g DME. I wouldnt start that high though or youll get a lot of krausen going out the top.

If Im making a starter in a smaller vessel, I will start it a week ahead of time. Do as large a starter as it can accommodate, let it go for 2 days or so, let settle overnight, decant, and add more fresh starter wort on top. You can easily get higher cell counts in smaller vessels that way

 

[douglasbarbin]

You don't have anything better than a growler to do this with?

 

[TravelingLight]

You don't have anything better than a growler to do this with?

Ehh, don't think so. I have a 64 oz growler, a 32 oz growler, and a bunch of quart mason jars. I don't *think* I have anything else. I'll eventually get an Erlenmeyer flask, just haven't yet and I'm making this starter this weekend.

 

[TravelingLight]

I would try making a larger starter than that though. The standard rule is 1g DME per 10ml water so 64oz = 1890ish ml = 190g DME. I wouldnt start that high though or youll get a lot of krausen going out the top.

Thanks m00ps. Didn't realize that was the standard. I've just seen the ratio I mentioned in multiple threads. Still advocate a bigger starter if I'm using Vermont Giga? What about if I'm only making the starter 24 hours before pitching? I really have no way of doing it before that. I leave on Friday to go camping and come back Sunday, brew on Monday/

 

[douglasbarbin]

Ehh, don't think so. I have a 64 oz growler, a 32 oz growler, and a bunch of quart mason jars. I don't *think* I have anything else. I'll eventually get an Erlenmeyer flask, just haven't yet and I'm making this starter this weekend.

Maybe a clear pitcher? You could cover the top with sanitized aluminum foil.

 

[m00ps]

Thanks m00ps. Didn't realize that was the standard. I've just seen the ratio I mentioned in multiple threads. Still advocate a bigger starter if I'm using Vermont Giga? What about if I'm only making the starter 24 hours before pitching? I really have no way of doing it before that. I leave on Friday to go camping and come back Sunday, brew on Monday/

If you are just pitching the whole packet in a 5-6gal batch, you should be fine unless its a super high OG. Gigayeast is supposed to have a higher cell count than wyeast and white labs and their packets are designed for straight pitching.

I make starters so I can harvest the clean yeast when I pitch it

 

[douglasbarbin]

I think the GigaYeast packets are ~200 billion viable cells. You could probably get away with directly pitching a fresh pack into 5 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.060 or less.

 

[TravelingLight]

If you are just pitching the whole packet in a 5-6gal batch, you should be fine unless its a super high OG. Gigayeast is supposed to have a higher cell count than wyeast and white labs and their packets are designed for straight pitching.

I make starters so I can harvest the clean yeast when I pitch it

I think the GigaYeast packets are ~200 billion viable cells. You could probably get away with directly pitching a fresh pack into 5 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.060 or less.

This beer is calculated at an OG of 1.070. I'm sure I could probably get away with straight pitching the smack pack. But I more so want to do a starter for experience as I've never done one before. And I have DME sitting around from previous extract beers so might as well.

 

[douglasbarbin]

5 gallons of 1.070 ale should have a pitch of about 242 billion cells, according to the calculator I use. So I would make a starter for that beer.

 

[Ike]

If you're on Amazon (especially Prime) here's the jar I use for starters:

http://smile.amazon.com/1-gallon-USDA-Fermentation-Glass-Jar/dp/B006ZRBGSC?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It's cheap, a full gallon (largest I could find in the store (pickles or whatever) was only a half-gallon) AND where most jars have a concave-up bottom, this one starts out concave-up but the very middle of it is actually concave-DOWN so it works like a champ with a stirring bar and DIY stir plate, when you're ready for it.

I may have the concave-up and down thing backwards, but you get what I mean...

 

[TravelingLight]

If you're on Amazon (especially Prime) here's the jar I use for starters:

http://smile.amazon.com/1-gallon-USDA-Fermentation-Glass-Jar/dp/B006ZRBGSC?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It's cheap, a full gallon (largest I could find in the store (pickles or whatever) was only a half-gallon) AND where most jars have a concave-up bottom, this one starts out concave-up but the very middle of it is actually concave-DOWN so it works like a champ with a stirring bar and DIY stir plate, when you're ready for it.

I may have the concave-up and down thing backwards, but you get what I mean...

Thanks for the link. Added it to my Homebrew wishlist!

 

[Calaeb]

I've used a 64oz growler the last two times, I don't have a stirplate, or flask so I just gave it a little swirl each time I walked by. No problems at all, wish I could see what was going on in there though lol.

 

[douglasbarbin]

I've used a 64oz growler the last two times, I don't have a stirplate, or flask so I just gave it a little swirl each time I walked by. No problems at all, wish I could see what was going on in there though lol.

The bigger problem is trying to see how much is left when you are trying to decant.

 

[Calaeb]

That's true, but I didn't decant so that wasnt a issue for me. I poured it all in there

 

[Kwitty]

A growler is fine! I use them all the time! I don't get to brew as often as I'd like so I do multiple batches when I do. I bought a couple clear 64oz and a couple clear 128oz growlers just for this task. The 128oz I use for 2liter starters and up. The head space gives room for krausen. They work great! Flasks are ok but when I'm making 3 - 2liter starters I make them in one pot and split it. But that's me! Anything big enough and sterile will work. My friend uses 3 liter soda bottles and recycles them after a starter. He makes great beer!

 

[Casedeville]

I think the GigaYeast packets are ~200 billion viable cells. You could probably get away with directly pitching a fresh pack into 5 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.060 or less.

I agree. If you're using this Double Pitch pack, then you're starting with 200 billion cells which should be more than enough to direct pitch.

If you just want to make a starter for the fun of it, then you can use 1000mL (~33floz) with 100g (~3.5oz) of DME which will fill up about half of your growler. (It's roughly the same amount you originally posted, and will work just fine to use 4 cups water with 1 cup DME.) I used growlers for a while before I had an Erlenmeyer flask and stir plate and they work just fine. You definitely don't have to worry about the large head space, and you don't want to fill it up all the way because you'll lose a lot out the top. Just give it a swirl whenever you walk by it.

 

[Casedeville]

If you're on Amazon (especially Prime) here's the jar I use for starters:

http://smile.amazon.com/1-gallon-USDA-Fermentation-Glass-Jar/dp/B006ZRBGSC?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I may have the concave-up and down thing backwards, but you get what I mean...

Thought this might be helpful for your concave vs. convex definitions.

If that jar works on a stir plate, it might be a good option. I would prefer a 2L Erlenmeyer flask since it can be direct-heated and is only a couple dollars more. It's big enough for most ale batches, but it would be nice to have a 5L for lagers or high gravity beers.

 

[estricklin]

Many beer problems can be solved with beer solutions, just like using a growler for a starter. I love them because they are plenty big enough, and I have a lot of them laying around. If your doing a 5 gal batch then your 1500ml flask can work, but when you start with 10 gallon plus your going to want that half gallon. I've even used gallon pickle jars before.

Only problem, as mentioned above, is that damned cured bottom plays hell with the stir plate.

 

[Twotaureanbrewing]

Use a starter calculator for recommend cells based on your OG. Theres plenty free calculators on line. I use woodlands. Can figure how much DME to water combo depending on OG.

24hrs is plenty of time. Looking a cell charts, in a starter cell division is greatest up to 24-32hrs. After that it slow dramatically. If your making an IPA dont bother to decant, just dump it all, you'll be fine.

I make mine the day before and have had great results. Biggest thing I suggest, try to get your wort as close to ferment temp as possible before pitching your starter.

 

[TravelingLight]

Use a starter calculator for recommend cells based on your OG. Theres plenty free calculators on line. I use woodlands. Can figure how much DME to water combo depending on OG.

24hrs is plenty of time. Looking a cell charts, in a starter cell division is greatest up to 24-32hrs. After that it slow dramatically. If your making an IPA dont bother to decant, just dump it all, you'll be fine.

I make mine the day before and have had great results. Biggest thing I suggest, try to get your wort as close to ferment temp as possible before pitching your starter.

Oh yeah, no crash/decant for me. I'm just tossing it all in. Thanks.

 

[douglasbarbin]

I agree. If you're using this Double Pitch pack, then you're starting with 200 billion cells which should be more than enough to direct pitch.

If you just want to make a starter for the fun of it, then you can use 1000mL (~33floz) with 100g (~3.5oz) of DME which will fill up about half of your growler. (It's roughly the same amount you originally posted, and will work just fine to use 4 cups water with 1 cup DME.) I used growlers for a while before I had an Erlenmeyer flask and stir plate and they work just fine. You definitely don't have to worry about the large head space, and you don't want to fill it up all the way because you'll lose a lot out the top. Just give it a swirl whenever you walk by it.

Here's the problem: His wort is 1.070, not 1.060 or less. So he does not have enough viable cells to direct-pitch. It says right on the product page that you are looking for .75 million cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato. For reference, 5 gallons is 18,927.1 milliliters, and 1.070 SG is 17 degrees Plato.

Let's do the math:

18,927.1 mL * .75 = 14,195.325 Million cells per degree Plato
14,195.325 / 1,000 = 14.195325 Billion cells per degree Plato
14.195325 * 17 degree Plato = 241.320525 Billion cells needed for 5 gallons of 1.070 wort


Now, a new yeast pack contains ~200 billion viable cells, and they start dying eventually (the rate of death is debatable and variable, but we won't get into that here). So we can assume that, at most, we have ~200 billion viable cells, and most likely there are fewer than that. Using a best case scenario, we are ~41 billion cells short, which is about 17% of the total number of cells needed for this fermentation.

All of that to say that it can probably still be done, but you will be substantially short of your typical ideal pitching rate for ales. In some styles of beer, this might actually be desirable, but in a style where you are seeking a clean fermentation, it is not.

 

[Auger]

Another vote for using growlers in a pinch. I have a weak stir plate so the thicker, curved glass bottom doesn't work with mine, but the clear growlers work fine for doing the periodic swirl/shake method. I also generally don't decant, I just pitch the whole thing.

 

[Casedeville]

Here's the problem: His wort is 1.070, not 1.060 or less. So he does not have enough viable cells to direct-pitch.

Yeah, I agree. I was writing my reply when he disclosed his target OG, so I didn't see it till after. It wouldn't ruin the beer by any means, but it wouldn't be the ideal pitching rate. He should make a starter for best results.

To be honest, I'm a fan of doing starters for even lower gravity beers because it gets the yeast active and ready to work. I also heard Charlie Bamforth recently say that the first generation of a yeast cell doesn't produce the same flavors as the subsequent generations. If that's true, then it would seem to reason that the yeast from a starter would produce a different flavor than the 1st generation propagation. Depending on what those flavor differences are, one may be preferred over the other. In my anecdotal experience, I find the beers made with starters to be cleaner and more true to the flavor profile I'm hoping for. Could be that the pitching rate was accurate, but it could also be that it's a 2nd generation of cells.

I'm a huge fan of crashing the starter in the fridge and decanting the beer off the cake. It's probably not detectable in a lot of styles like stouts and huge DIPAs, but I think it's at least marginally better to do so if there is proper schedule planning.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Agree about decanting. To me, it's noticeable when you add 1/2 a gallon of oxygenated beer to a 5 gallon wort.