Yeast: fermentation and bottling...

[John2]

To start I looked through the threads already out there and couldn't find this info, I have also done much reading and have had no luck. If there is a thread or some info already out there feel free to redirect me...

Anyways, I have two very specific yeast questions I would love to have answered. First, I am brewing my second batch of home brew (the first was a horrible mistake that ended up own the drain). I am about to bottle it after doing one stage of fermentation. I know that when I transfer it to the bottles there should be a nice cake of crap on the bottom of my fermentation bucket (yeast and whatnot). I know that I want some yeast in the bottles or they will not prime properly. So...will there be enough yeast floating around in the wort that I can leave as much solid sediment in the bucked as possible or do I want some of that to get transfered. I am going for as clear of a beer as possible but do not want it to be flat out of the bottle.

Secondly (and less important), I know that once I am ready to drink my beer I need to leave about a half inch in the bottom so I so not drink the yeast sitting in there. Is this unavoidable? How to mass produced and even craft/microbreweries avoid this? Or is there no feasible way to avoid this?

Thanks...

 

[Yooper]

There's plenty of yeast still in suspension to carb up your beer.

Most breweries filter and force carb their beer, so they don't bottle condition. A few breweries do bottle condition. In those cases, you'll see a very light dusting of sediment on the bottom of the bottles.

If you're bottle condition, there is no way to avoid having some sediment. You can certainly minimize it by leaving the beer in the fermenter longer so that more yeast and other items in suspension fall out as trub. You can also use a more highly flocculant yeast. A yeast like nottingham or S04 clears the beer very well, leaving a tightly compacted yeast cake in the bottom. It's much easier to avoid the sediment when racking to the bottling bucket with a yeast cake like that. Same with the bottling- once it's bottled and carbed up, using a highly flocculant yeast means that the yeast sediment in the bottle will be more "stuck" to the bottom of the bottle and easier to pour off of.

The clearer the beer when you bottle, the less sediment you'll have in the bottles. So, extra time in the fermenter is very helpful.

 

[JohnMc]

John2, it's unavoidable (though reducible, as Yooper Brew points out) unless you want to get a keg and counter pressure bottle fill, or some variation on that theme.

I read somewhere, once upon my memory so I can't cite the source, that the big dogs don't force carbonate much. They make stuff that's so reproducible, that they just close the gas out valve on their fermenters, with the right amount of sugar still remaining such that the beer in the fermenter (cylindrical conical) is just about perfectly carbonated. I assume they still have an emergency pressure relief valve. At any rate, when you brew on that scale, the savings in CO2 cost must be enormous.

 

[John2]

Thanks guys, good knowledge to have. I see what you're saying about closing the valves on the fermenter JohnMc, makes sense and seems easy with the super controlled conditions they work with (and knowledge/experience).

So if I am understanding correctly...
To avoid the yeast sediment in the bottom of my bottles I would have to prime my beer in a separate container and then transfer it to the bottles after it's carbonated leaving the little bit in the bottom that is the settled yeast? As in...keg the beer and let it prime then bottle it. It must be more complicated than that or more people would do it...or is it really that easy? Not saying I would try it any time soon, I have too much to learn before trying to be tricky.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks guys, good knowledge to have. I see what you're saying about closing the valves on the fermenter JohnMc, makes sense and seems easy with the super controlled conditions they work with (and knowledge/experience).

So if I am understanding correctly...
To avoid the yeast sediment in the bottom of my bottles I would have to prime my beer in a separate container and then transfer it to the bottles after it's carbonated leaving the little bit in the bottom that is the settled yeast? As in...keg the beer and let it prime then bottle it. It must be more complicated than that or more people would do it...or is it really that easy? Not saying I would try it any time soon, I have too much to learn before trying to be tricky.

Yeah, it's that easy. Almost. The key is to fill with "counter pressure". Either a counter pressure bottle filler, or a Blichmann beergun, or the "Biermuncher bottle filler" here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/

Some important things to know- you need to have the beer pretty cold as warm beer will foam too much for this to work. Also, the bottles should be cold, if possible. You need to be able to adjust the regulator, as well as purge the keg of pressure, but that's common in most homebrew kegging setups. These are items most keggers already have.

The easier method is to reduce the sediment through the ways already mentioned, and then educate yourself and fellow drinkers to simply pour carefully to avoid the sediment. I can pour a homebrew to get almost every drop of beer out, and still leave the sediment behind. It takes practice, I guess. And I have LOTS of practice drinking beer! :rockin:

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Once you bottle, condition, and then leave in the fridge for a week or more most of the yeast will compact in the bottom and you'll often be able to pour right down to the bottom of the bottle without the sediment pouring in. Even if it does get in your glass, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[JohnMc]

It must be more complicated than that or more people would do it...or is it really that easy?

Like Yooper_Brew said, it's not complicated, just a *tad* laborious. I have a counter pressure filler I got on close-out when St. Pats switched to wine making stuff for pros only. It's gathering dust rather nicely as you read this...

It takes practice, I guess. And I have LOTS of practice drinking beer!

Right on!

 

[John2]

Wow...sounds like you guys are right, did a little more reading on CPBF's and sounds do-able but like a bit more work than I am willing to put into my beer until I am a bit more experienced. I have no problem with being a careful pourer. And seeing as I have yet to come up with one successful batch I'll leave this thought in the "someday" category. Thanks for all the info!

 

[Anubis]

You can also "cold crash". I have a double belgian wit that has a ton of trub and top cropping yeast that I plan to cold crash. Cold temps will often make yeast settle out more than they normally would as well as general "stuff". You will still have enough yeast to carb but a lot lessthan normal. That is of course if you have the equipment to do it. For me I wait for really cold nights then move it outside in a covered box.