Wow is nottingham fast or what?

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SlitheryDee

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So I put an irish amber ale in the fermenter Saturday. It's the northern brewer kit with steeping grains, and I added a bit of DME to it to give it a bit more kick. The OG as measured was 1.052 and my expected FG according to brewer's friend is 1.012. I just check the gravity last night and was shocked to see it at 1.012 already. There were also signs of a massive krausen that had already fallen back into the beer. That's just three days of fermentation time for nottingham??

My procedure:

This is my first beer to ferment with temperature control, so I cooled it in the fermentation chamber to 66 degrees before pitching, and fermented at that same temperature from Saturday through this morning. This morning I bumped the temperature up to 75 degrees as per the brulosophy ale schedule I'm following. This puts me at beginning to cold crash sometime this weekend, and that's probably giving it a couple days more than it needs. Pretty incredible. If I kegged I could conceivably be drinking this beer next week.
 
I have had Notty go pretty fast and other times a little longer. But then again I have never taken a gravity reading of any beer in less than 2 weeks. I don't rush things. I feel that the yeast ferment the beer then continue working cleaning up off flavors created during the height of fermentation. How long that takes is up for debate. I just feel 2 weeks will have that done and allow time for sediment to settle.

I also look for clarity. If the beer is still cloudy it sits longer.
 
kh54s10 said:
I have had Notty go pretty fast and other times a little longer. But then again I have never taken a gravity reading of any beer in less than 2 weeks. I don't rush things. I feel that the yeast ferment the beer then continue working cleaning up off flavors created during the height of fermentation. How long that takes is up for debate. I just feel 2 weeks will have that done and allow time for sediment to settle.

I also look for clarity. If the beer is still cloudy it sits longer.
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Yeah. I know I'm not very patient, but I'm following a plan that has seemed to make quite a few tasty beers for the guys over at brulosophy. The specific instructions were to give it 2-5 days at 66 degrees depending on the gravity, so I was prepared to wait until Thursday. I was watching for a cease in activity for my cue to test the gravity and it came last night. *shrug* In any case, I'm supposed to give it another 2-5 days at 75 degrees for the "cleanup" phase, after which I'll test it again to see if it's ready for cold crashing and gelatin fining.

Edit: One thing I do know is that I want to harvest some of this yeast for use with other brews. I hear that fermenting in the high 50s to low 60s range produces extremely clean lager-like beers. I'd like to try that.
 
SlitheryDee said:
Yeah. I know I'm not very patient, but I'm following a plan that has seemed to make quite a few tasty beers for the guys over at brulosophy. The specific instructions were to give it 2-5 days at 66 degrees depending on the gravity, so I was prepared to wait until Thursday. I was watching for a cease in activity for my cue to test the gravity and it came last night. *shrug* In any case, I'm supposed to give it another 2-5 days at 75 degrees for the "cleanup" phase, after which I'll test it again to see if it's ready for cold crashing and gelatin fining.

Edit: One thing I do know is that I want to harvest some of this yeast for use with other brews. I hear that fermenting in the high 50s to low 60s range produces extremely clean lager-like beers. I'd like to try that.
Click to expand...

I would accept the 10 days. Definitely not 2 and 2....

Northern Brewer lists 57 as the minimum temperature and 70 as the max. I use 64 - 66 for most ale yeasts.

Clean lager-like beers has as much to do with the recipe as it does yeast choice or temperature.
 
kh54s10 said:
I would accept the 10 days. Definitely not 2 and 2....

Northern Brewer lists 57 as the minimum temperature and 70 as the max. I use 64 - 66 for most ale yeasts.

Clean lager-like beers has as much to do with the recipe as it does yeast choice or temperature.
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I've seen other posters citing success with low temperatures with Nottingham in a cream ale. I have a vanilla cream ale in the lineup that I might try it with. Of course deviating from the fermentation schedule I'm on now would probably have me waiting longer for it to finish out. I don't mind waiting really. I'm just curious to see how fast I can actually turn this beer around and what negative effects,if any, it has on the beer.
 
I fermented my last ale with Nottingham at 62 degrees, and it was well behaved. No blow off tube required. Plus it took almost 2 full weeks to reach the point of seeing no bubble activity in the airlock.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
I fermented my last ale with Nottingham at 62 degrees, and it was well behaved. No blow off tube required. Plus it took almost 2 full weeks to reach the point of seeing no bubble activity in the airlock.
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One thing I failed to mention was that I actually pitched two packs of Nottingham. I don't think northern brewer normally puts two packs in their kits, but mine had two. The pitch rate calculator I was using indicated that one pack was slightly less than optimal, while two packs was slightly more, so I went ahead and pitched both packs. By noon the next day it was really rolling, and by Monday it was already slowing down. This was all at 66 degrees.
 
SlitheryDee said:
One thing I failed to mention was that I actually pitched two packs of Nottingham. I don't think northern brewer normally puts two packs in their kits, but mine had two. The pitch rate calculator I was using indicated that one pack was slightly less than optimal, while two packs was slightly more, so I went ahead and pitched both packs. By noon the next day it was really rolling, and by Monday it was already slowing down. This was all at 66 degrees.
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Your pitch rate calculator makes some assumptions that probably aren't true. Your 1.052 beer would have been fine with a single package so when you pitched two you over pitched. No big deal but that does get you a faster ferment.

Nottingham produces some esters at 66 degrees, not real bad but if you want a cleaner ferment from it plan on starting it at 58 where it will nearly emulate a lager yeast. At that temperature it will work slower so don't expect to have it finish in 2 days. 4 to 5 days to get you near the final gravity would be expected plus some time for cleanup of intermediate products of fermentation which occur faster at room temp.
 
RM-MN said:
Your pitch rate calculator makes some assumptions that probably aren't true. Your 1.052 beer would have been fine with a single package so when you pitched two you over pitched. No big deal but that does get you a faster ferment.

Nottingham produces some esters at 66 degrees, not real bad but if you want a cleaner ferment from it plan on starting it at 58 where it will nearly emulate a lager yeast. At that temperature it will work slower so don't expect to have it finish in 2 days. 4 to 5 days to get you near the final gravity would be expected plus some time for cleanup of intermediate products of fermentation which occur faster at room temp.
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I am noticing a pronounced fruity/banana odor in the fermentation chamber, so I bet you're right. Seeing as it's an irish ale I guess I should want some yeast character in this batch though.

I'm going to harvest some yeast from this batch and pitch it into the cream ale next with much lower fermentation temperatures to see how that pans out. It'll be my first time harvesting, but I've done enough reading to think I'm prepared to do it safely. I guess I'll be needing to wash it and make a starter as well since it's coming from a darker beer. That'll be another first for me.
 
Yeah notty usually finishes around 1.008-1.010 for me and its done in 3-4 days no problem with average gravity.

I ferment low to mid 60's ambient.
 
Just as an update I tested it again yesterday and got the same gravity reading as before, so it was indeed done. I'm sure it benefited from the additional 4-5 days conditioning time though. Yesterday morning I began cold crashing and by that afternoon it was cool enough to add gelatin.

Half of this batch is actually going into a party pig, which I plan to take on a trip at the end of this month. That's one reason I'm fast tracking it a bit. Hopefully it will be able to finish whatever conditioning it needs at the same time as it's carbonating once I get it into the pig. The other half will go into bottles and can take it's sweet time for all I care.
 
I have kegged beers in less than a week with Notty and US05. If you have the time to wait 2 weeks by all means do so but I like to make room in the ferm chamber and get beer in the keg asap! You can bet big beer companies aren't waiting two weeks to pull their beer out of their fermenters!
 
Nottingham or not, doesn't the specific gravity at which a batch ends (FG) depend greatly upon the specific gravity at which it begins (OG)? Does it make sense to state that Nottingham finishes at 1.008 to 1.011 without stating where it started at?

This plus the apparent attenuation, which is dependent upon the percentage of fermentables present within your wort, and other factors such as rehydration or not, pitched yeast quantity, aeration sufficiency, temperature during ferment, and other factors.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
Nottingham or not, doesn't the specific gravity at which a batch ends (FG) depend greatly upon the specific gravity at which it begins (OG)? Does it make sense to state that Nottingham finishes at 1.008 to 1.011 without stating where it started at?

This plus the apparent attenuation, which is dependent upon the percentage of fermentables present within your wort, and other factors such as rehydration or not, pitched yeast quantity, aeration sufficiency, temperature during ferment, and other factors.
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Yeah, it depends on a lot of things, including the OG, the mash temp, and the kind of grain you're using.

I assume most people generalizing their FG experience mean "With a typical standard-strength British or American pale ale."
 
Yeah notty usually finishes around 1.008-1.010 for me and its done in 3-4 days no problem with average gravity.

Average 1.045-1.060. Mostly 1.050 -1.055 for me. Which is the average for average to medium strength beers. :)
 
OG is 1.056 usually (unless I screw up,1.052 to 1.058 is where that recipe comes in at usually...).

Grain bill is
16 pounds Golden Promise
3.5 pounds Victory
.75 pounds Extra Dark Crystal (160l)

11 gallon batch usually.
 
I'm currently 5 days in with my pale that used Notty. OG was right around 1.051 and it was rolling by day two/three and has slowed down considerably just like yours, however still getting airlock activity and CO2 bubbles so I'm happy. The recipe I was following called for 68 degree fermentation for 7 to 10 days, so it's known to be a quicker yeast I believe. FYI I used EdWort's recipe https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31793 Excited to try it!

I was also going to say I smelled a fruity/banana odor during the first few days, however that has significantly died off.
 
alexpaulsen said:
I'm currently 5 days in with my pale that used Notty. OG was right around 1.051 and it was rolling by day two/three and has slowed down considerably just like yours, however still getting airlock activity and CO2 bubbles so I'm happy. The recipe I was following called for 68 degree fermentation for 7 to 10 days, so it's known to be a quicker yeast I believe. FYI I used EdWort's recipe https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31793 Excited to try it!

I was also going to say I smelled a fruity/banana odor during the first few days, however that has significantly died off.
Click to expand...

I'm glad that you are happy but the bubbles in your airlock are just fooling you. Here's a good explanation of what goes on during fermentation.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
 
RM-MN said:
I'm glad that you are happy but the bubbles in your airlock are just fooling you. Here's a good explanation of what goes on during fermentation.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
Click to expand...
Useful link. I'd argue, though, that his time frames can vary depending on yeast strains and temperature. He puts lag at 3-15 hours. This might be true in optimal conditions, but in my experience a lag of 24-36 hours is neither atypical nor necessarily detrimental to the beer.
 
Mainer said:
Useful link. I'd argue, though, that his time frames can vary depending on yeast strains and temperature. He puts lag at 3-15 hours. This might be true in optimal conditions, but in my experience a lag of 24-36 hours is neither atypical nor necessarily detrimental to the beer.
Click to expand...

My lag times have all been pretty consistent so far. When I was pitching a more normal amount of yeast I saw little to no activity next day, but it was usually going full on the day after that, so I guess my lag was mostly in the 24-36 hour range. This last batch where I overpitched I got full on fermentation in less than 24 hours. It makes sense that pitch rate is probably a huge factor though.
 
Yeah, pitch rate and temperature. Because of the weather where I live, when I brew ales in the wintertime I end up in the low end of the range, so my fermentations can be a little sluggish, especially if I'm using rehydrated dry yeast instead of running a starter. It's not ideal, but I haven't had any ill effects.
 
RM-MN said:
I'm glad that you are happy but the bubbles in your airlock are just fooling you. Here's a good explanation of what goes on during fermentation.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
Click to expand...

I have to say that the reason I'm happy is because I've had more of a controlled fermentation this time. This is my first batch using a temp probe and temp controller. Previously, (and it's hot where I live) fermentation was extremely quick and uncontrolled. Thanks for the info.
 
Seeing the topic, I want to share my first experience about Nottingham.

It was almost done in 3 days under 65F. The fastest fermentation I ever had.

full.jpg
 
I'm fermenting a batch that is presently about 51 hours post pitching only a single pack of rehydrated Nottingham into ~6.2 gallons of 1.068 SG wort, and at 61 degree F. ambient air temperature the Notty is presently rocking the carboy at a whopping 111 bubbles per minute as counted in the airlock. I made no effort to aerate the wort, since Danstar states that it is not necessary with Notty. And for my first time ever, I also made no effort to remove any percentage of the trub, but rather removed my filter and let it all go into the carboy. Trub must make excellent yeast food.

The krausen got within about 1/4" of needing a blow-off tube imminently installed, but subsequently it has settled back to about 1/2" from hitting the airlock stopper on the 7 gallon Fermonster (which is a bit more than 7 gallons actual). So it appears that 111 bubbles per minute in a 3 piece airlock is potentially a bit past the actual peak, which I'm guessing happened at 48 to 49 hours post yeast pitching. Has anyone ever seen roughly 120 bubbles per minute? Peak fermentation at roughly 48 hours? And at 61 degrees ambient temperature no less.

Update: I was wrong. Right now it is ~61 hours post Notty pitch, and the bubbling rate is nigh on too fast comprehend, and krausen is beginning to come up through the airlock. Still 61 degrees F. ambient in the garage. It's 44 degrees outside, and pitch dark, so I just opened both garage doors and uncovered the carboy in an attempt to rapidly and aggressively cool down the fermenter.

Updating again: 66.5 hours post pitch, and I've cooled it down to where it's only at 100 bubbles per minute, and where the krausen junk is no longer climbing into the airlock. Finally, after 3 airlock changes in the past 5 hours or so.... With higher gravity worts you have to not only keep Nottingham ferments critically cold, but you also need to leave a lot of head space, or install a blow-off tube and jug assembly. I obviously did not leave enough head space, and I also did not provide for sufficient cooling.
 
If it was at 61 degrees then it was right where it should be temp wise. Go any cooler and you risk off flavors. Notty just rages like that, you weren't doing anything wrong. You brewed a pretty big beer and it's putting in WORK! Sometimes you just have to use a blowoff with it. The reason it's one of my favorite yeasts is just how fast it is. You can turn over beers fast.
 
Jim311 said:
If it was at 61 degrees then it was right where it should be temp wise. Go any cooler and you risk off flavors. Notty just rages like that, you weren't doing anything wrong. You brewed a pretty big beer and it's putting in WORK! Sometimes you just have to use a blowoff with it. The reason it's one of my favorite yeasts is just how fast it is. You can turn over beers fast.
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But with 61 degrees ambient, simultaneous with 120+ bubbles per minute, it could have been as high as perhaps 71 degrees inside the fermenter at its peak. I've heard stories of Notty heating up a fermenter by as much as 10 degrees F. when its really cranking. Since all I can do at present is measure the surrounding air temperature, I'll certainly never know the internal temperature peak for this batch.

Latest update: ~70.5 hours post pitch and it has settled down to a leisurely 72 bubbles per minute. Definitely past peak now. Current ambient temp is 61 degrees. Next plan is to add dry hops tomorrow morning.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
But with 61 degrees ambient, simultaneous with 120+ bubbles per minute, it could have been as high as perhaps 71 degrees inside the fermenter at its peak. I've heard stories of Notty heating up a fermenter by as much as 10 degrees F. when its really cranking. Since all I can do at present is measure the surrounding air temperature, I'll certainly never know the internal temperature peak for this batch.

Latest update: ~70.5 hours post pitch and it has settled down to a leisurely 72 bubbles per minute. Definitely past peak now. Current ambient temp is 61 degrees. Next plan is to add dry hops tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...

Let the beer have enough time that the bubbles slow way down so you don't lose the hop aroma through the airlock. Your beer can wait a couple weeks before you dry hop it with no ill effects.:rockin:
 
RM-MN said:
Let the beer have enough time that the bubbles slow way down so you don't lose the hop aroma through the airlock. Your beer can wait a couple weeks before you dry hop it with no ill effects.:rockin:
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I'm going commando with nearly 3 ounces of pellet hops (Amarillo, Citra, and Mosaic). Shouldn't they be added early enough to benefit from some potential mixing action via the yeast?
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
I'm going commando with nearly 3 ounces of pellet hops (Amarillo, Citra, and Mosaic). Shouldn't they be added early enough to benefit from some potential mixing action via the yeast?
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Hops mixing with yeast?

I've been brewing with those 3 hops a lot lately it will be a fruit bomb!! With alcohol!
 
seabrew8 said:
Hops mixing with yeast?

I've been brewing with those 3 hops a lot lately it will be a fruit bomb!! With alcohol!
Click to expand...

This is my first American IPA (almost a DIPA) and I'm wondering how long they typically need to age after bottling in order to reach peak flavor.
 

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