Would you?

[astropunk]

New brewer here...I have exactly 1 extract batch under my belt. And its still in the carboy, not even ready to drink, so who knows how it will turn out.

Now I am thinking of going all grain for my second batch. Is this idea crazy for a newbie? I already know I need to make a MLT, I can do that with a cooler and DIY parts. I need a wort chiller which I can also make. I have a 32qt boiling pot and propane burner, so I'm ready there...I already know the recipe I want to start with...Really the only thing I do NOT have is brewing experience.

So if you were me, would you do it, or would you brew up a few more extract batches first?

 

[509inc]

I would go for it. All the answers to any questions you may have can be found here.

 

[mixedbrewer]

The only one who can really answer that question is you. I have been experimenting with partial mash, and extract, for 4 years and still haven't explored everything.

 

[BendBrewer]

Yeah do it. You could do a Partial Mash but if you are going to mash, mash them all.

Read up on it first. Mash Temps and sparging techniques.

 

[EarlyBirdBrew]

I would go for it, most likely you will make beer and you will like it. If not then chalk it up to learning and try again. I would make the jump to all grain but don't have the money or space for the extra equipment.

 

[Hockeyhunter99]

keep reading everything. the good things, the mistakes you will make, etc.

people can start on AG if they have the will to do so.

it is more complicated, but the outcome is better. i have only heard this as i am an extract and specialty grain brewer myself.

 

[mlyday]

If you want to, then go for it, but there is a lot you can learn from doing extract kits, before adding some of the complexity of all grain. There is a lot more "chemistry" happening in all grain, that you may need to worry about. I would do a few more extract kits, maybe fool around with some steeping grain, fermentation temps and the such. Learn from the kits, before adding in the variable that all grain adds.

Some people learn better just jumping into the fire. But not me.

 

[RMitch]

IMO, AG makes more sense to me than extract. It seems more...natural.

 

[zepolmot]

Go for the triple decoction!

 

[mixedbrewer]

Yeah do it. You could do a Partial Mash but if you are going to mash, mash them all.

A partial mash can be done on the stove, and used in a partial boil. There are a ton of ways to make great beer without doing all grain. And whether I am mashing the the sugar out or if Briess is doing it... I doubt its any less natural. Supplementing a partial mash with DME is fast, easy, and tastes great. No mash tun, no sparge, no huge boil... it has its advantages.

 

[Golddiggie]

Read up on the BIAB (Brew In A Bag) method for all grain, and partial mashing... Minimal hardware investment, and a good way to get into all grain brewing... I'm still using that method, and plan to for at least some time... With a 32 quart pot, you have almost everything you'll need... I would get another 28-40 quart pot to use with the method too (I have two 20 quart pots that are a wee tight for my grain bills)...

All grain brewing is far cheaper than going with extracts. Plus, it gets you more involved in the process. As noted, it also seems more... natural... You can even fit your existing pots with ball valves, if you decide to, to make things even easier on yourself... You can make an immersion chiller if you don't want to buy one... I did and it works great for 5 gallon batches... I'll need something larger when I go to 10 gallon batches (in another year or so)...

I did three extract batches, then one partial mash, and have been all grain ever since... BIAB makes it so easy on you (hardware wise at least)... Less stuff to need to store (important in a small apartment, not so much if you have a house, or large enough apartment) too.

If you're questioning about going AG, then do a partial mash batch, or two... One or two of those under your belt will boost your confidence in your own ability to mash... I would suggest posting up your recipe before you make it, though, so that you can get feedback on it before you make it... Use some software to figure out the recipe too. It's helped me a LOT since stepping away from kits.

If you're in an area with brewing meetup groups, register (it's free) and go to a brew day where someone is doing an all grain, or partial mash, recipe... I've been hosting those where I am for the past few months now...

 

[BendBrewer]

There are a ton of ways to make great beer without doing all grain. And whether I am mashing the the sugar out or if Briess is doing it

True and the same could be said about Pasta Sauce. Not sure I would consider myself an Italian Cook though if I started with a can of Ragu.

 

[RMitch]

AG is also a lot cheaper. Damn extracts get expensive.

 

[SwampassJ]

AG is also a lot cheaper. Damn extracts get expensive.

And much more flexible in the types to be had for base grains.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

All grain isn't hard at all. The most important thing is making sure you have the proper steps in place to ensure a smooth brew day.

It definitely is more involved than extract and takes more time. But my beer got so much better (and less expensive) since I went AG.

Again, just do a lot of reading and research before you start. If your first AG batch is anything like mine it will be a bit of a pain to get through. Then the more you do it, the smoother it gets.

 

[Tinga]

well you will gain experience with either way of doing it so really why wouldnt you start all grain? it is more complicated but as long as you have the time and patience you'll learn a lot more in a shorter time period.

 

[cracked1]

You are the only person who can answer that question. One of the great things about this obsession is the nearly limitless possibilities. No one person's method is "the" way to go. As has been said here before, give 10 brewers the same recipe and you'll get back 10 different beers. The difference is in the process. No one really does it EXACTLY the same as the next person. The learning curve is different for everyone too and for some people all grain just makes more sense. Award winning beers have been made from extract... Horrible beers have been made from AG... and vice-versa. I did three extract batches then two partial mashes and now I brew AG because that's what appealed to me. My first batch ever, which was extract, turned out WAY better than my first AG...

 

[astropunk]

I have been reading up on it all, and watching hours of Utube vids. I'm confident I can make the equipment and make it work. Its not the complexity that scares me. What I don't know is how to experiment with recipes. What variations in hops and boil times do, etc. I would probably just buy the all grain kits from Northern brewer and such places, just as I would buy an extract kit. I like the prices of AG kits compared to extract kits!

In any case, I will pick up another extract kit at the same time as go out and get the parts I need for AG. That way I can brew up another extract batch, and have plenty of time to assemble everything for my 3rd batch, which I will try AG.

 

[Rivenin]

FWIW, i did 3 extract batches, 2 partial mash batches and have done 4 AG brews... and honestly, while the extract batches are simple and easy and fun, AG can be the same exact way. And if you clean as you go, makes it go faster.
i like AG a lot better honestly. it is a little more indepth then extract, but only as scary as you make it. and all day long i have a smile on my face

 

[Golddiggie]

True and the same could be said about Pasta Sauce. Not sure I would consider myself an Italian Cook though if I started with a can of Ragu.

Glad to see I'm not the only person to feel this way... I don't consider myself an "Italian" cook, but a damned good cook all the same.

I also agree with the statements made about AG being more flexible, plus it gives YOU total control over what the grain bill actually is... More times than I care to think about, I've seen postings where it's mentioned that there's more in light extract than just pale malt... If you're going after a specific flavor, you want to know, exactly, what you're ingredients are...

As for figuring things out, start with a clone recipe... There's plenty of sources for getting those... BYO's web site for one thing, has some solid clone recipes... I'm actually getting their 250 clone recipe book (arrives tomorrow)... I picked up the 200 recipe clone book earlier, but I'm looking for more variety... There's also more than a few solid clone recipes posted on these boards... If you can buy it in a store, chances are someone has posted a clone recipe for it.

Of course, there's also a lot to be said for just winging it and figuring it out on your own... My first ESB/English IPA was pretty basic in it's recipe... 11# UK 2 row base malt (I used 6# MO, 5# Golden Promise), 1# British Crystal Malt I (45 SRM), .25# Victory Malt, 1 oz Target hops (45 minute boil), 1 oz Fuggles hops 5 minute boil, and 1# honey added after about 2 weeks in primary... When I make it again, I'll probably change the hops a little, putting the Target hops to 60 minutes, adding a 20 minute hops, as well as some at either 5 minutes or flame-out... Used Scottish Ale (Wyeast 1728) in it... Came out really good, a crowd pleaser... Mashed around 150-152 for 90 minutes... Hit an OG of 1.052 (yeah, this one sucked for efficiency) and a FG of 1.010 (WOOT!)... Next time, I'll go to 10# UK 2 row base malt, and probably not add the honey at all... Might go with some Honey Malt though...

Once you've got all grain down, you might want to explore washing yeast... IF you're using liquid yeast at least. It makes each batch a lot cheaper that way. Probably doesn't make as much sense if you're using dry yeast....

 

[Golddiggie]

and all day long i have a smile on my face

But that's from drinking so many home brew while you're making the batch... :rockin:

Not saying it's a bad thing, just saying...

Always remember.... RDWHAHB

 

[mixedbrewer]

True and the same could be said about Pasta Sauce. Not sure I would consider myself an Italian Cook though if I started with a can of Ragu.

Apples to oranges... A can of Ragu is "everything but the pasta". In a partial mash supplemented with DME, the DME is not "everything but the water". Its like adding a can of stewed tomatoes so you don't have to work on them for 4 hours. The all grain superiority complex is astonishing.

 

[tchuklobrau]

OP
Hey man the sky is the limit. My buddy just did his 1st extract kit an irish stout. then added elderberries and elder flowers and added oak essence for the bottling. Some said that was crazy. it is all about what you want to accomplish for you.

 

[Mongrel]

Apples to oranges... A can of Ragu is "everything but the pasta". In a partial mash supplemented with DME, the DME is not "everything but the water". Its like adding a can of stewed tomatoes so you don't have to work on them for 4 hours. The all grain superiority complex is astonishing.

Actually, the Ragu analogy is pretty spot on. You can take that DME and just add hops and have beer. Hell, that's all my first beer was. With Ragu, you can brown some ground beef, add onions, mushrooms, etc. You can get perfectly tasty results that way, but it's just not as much fun to cook like that.

OP, you won't regret going all grain.

 

[rycov]

i say go for it. if you understand how to brew extract then all grain isn't that much harder to start. once you mash the grains everything else is the same. so really your just learning to mash. i'm just starting out. i made my mash tun out of a cooler with the steel braid. single infusion, batch sparge. super easy. (not that extract brewing is lesser. its just one more step you can add if you wanna. i just like messing with things)

 

[rycov]

by just starting out i mean in all grain

 

[mixedbrewer]

You can get perfectly tasty results that way, but it's just not as much fun to cook like that.

Perfectly tasty is all some of us are looking for. And there is more to it than adding hops and you have beer. Don't forget about the whole process of cooking and fermenting. All of which is un-necessary with ragu. DME is an ingredient (dehydrated malt extract), its not the whole beer.

 

[bhs668]

once you mash the grains everything else is the same. so really your just learning to mash.

Exactly, and mashing is not that hard at all. Lot more options for recipes and it's cheaper.

 

[Mongrel]

Perfectly tasty is all some of us are looking for.

And that's cool, I just didn't see a reason for the defensiveness. **** man, it's your beer. Enjoy it.

 

[mixedbrewer]

I will stand in defense for malt extract until the cows come home. For the OP, just because its all grain doesn't mean its better. It potentially means there are more ways to mess it up, especially if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[wolverinebrewer]

I will stand in defense for malt extract until the cows come home. For the OP, just because its all grain doesn't mean its better. It potentially means there are more ways to mess it up, especially if you don't know what you are doing.[/QUOTE]

Wow, there's a vote of confidence! OP, don't let that get you down, it is easy!!
I did a few extract brews but was bored of the simpleness. I needed to step it up with a new challenge and I will never go back. Make that mash tun and chiller and get on with it. One thing I would suggest is to read everything you can. I have done 2 AG batches and both were to perfection and it all came down to spending a lot of time learning and planning.

Plus, there is nothing like the smell of a tun full of soaking hot barley!!:rockin:

 

[astropunk]

LOL!! No worries, that wont let me down. I already had my mind made up that I am going to try all grain...I just needed a little more rah-rah and assurance, which I got plenty of!

And In no way am I hinting that AG is better than extract. I just want the full experience and satisfaction! The longer the whole process takes, the better!

Gonna get my cooler and stuff this week, and order my grains tonight! With any luck I will be brewing by Sunday :rockin:

 

[SwampassJ]

Plus, there is nothing like the smell of a tun full of soaking hot barley!!:rockin:

Or discovering it two days later in high heat and humidity still in said cooler. Worst vomit smell imaginable.

 

[wolverinebrewer]

Gonna get my cooler and stuff this week, and order my grains tonight! With any luck I will be brewing by Sunday :rockin:

What cooler set-up are you going with: rectangle or round, manifold or stainless braid? I made mine back in Dec. I followed Keith Brown on youtube but used cpvc and made two cross pieces. Works wonderful.

Good luck it's a blast.

 

[EricT]

Do It! My first AG batch was BM's Centennial Blonde. I did a BIAB. It's a relatively light grain bill and is pretty forgiving. Stouts are pretty easy to do AG as well. Actually Ed Worts house Pale ale was easy too. Yah man just do it, once the hour of mashing is over and your sparge is over, you collect all your runnings and the rest of the process is the same. Also theres some good videos out there if you want to see it first. (I did)

 

[brewmadness]

I read through a lot of these threads and I see it all the time. "I will go all grain when I have more room". "I will go all grain when I can purchase all the extra equipment". I am very new to all of this as well but have read a lot and watched tons of videos from more experienced brewers doing everthing from extract brewing to all grain with full three burners systems with pumps everything. But I've come to the conclusions that
1. all graing brewing isn't that much more difficult than extract brewing, it's more understanding what the ingredients you put into it are going to contribute to your brew.
2. you can make the switch to all grain without a huge investment in equipment. a converted cooler and a diy wort chiller aren't going to break the bank.

I definately plan to go all grain....in small steps. and not going to build a full blown system. not necessary. it is what you want to make it.
Happy brewing!

 

[cuttsjp]

I think Don Osborn's YouTube video on cooler batch sparge all-grain brewing is excellent. Really puts it into real terms for people. It made me make the switch from over-complicated monitored brewpot and zap-zap lautering techniques to doing much more convenient cooler batches.

You can watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/donosborn#p/c/889C3A598247F3E5/0/JMHLqnWCNjE

 

[Mongrel]

Or discovering it two days later in high heat and humidity still in said cooler. Worst vomit smell imaginable.

this is why a blend up and freeze a couple of cups worth of grains for bread, and then empty the cooler every brew day.

 

[emetcalf]

My first batch ever (~2 weeks ago) was all-grain and I enjoyed every minute of it. It wasn't a perfect brewday, but I don't think I messed anything up too bad. I did A LOT of reading and research before I even bought anything so I felt completely comfortable with the whole process my first time. You should read as much as you can and if you feel like you can do it, then go for it.

 

[rycov]

Plus, there is nothing like the smell of a tun full of soaking hot barley!!:rockin:

YES!!:rockin: