WLP590 saison

[TrannyRock]

Planning a saison, to brew in a couple weeks. I'm soliciting general suggestions, but in particular I'm curious about:

1) I haven't seen a lot of firm information/reviews about WLP590, the so-called French Saison Ale strain. For those who have used it, is it pretty similar to Wyeast 3711? I'm imagining vigorous attenuation and room in the profile for some hop/specialty malt character. Also, I guess I would try fermenting at 68 for 2 or 3 days and then just letting the fermenter free-rise until complete. If it's really that much of a monster, and since this is a relatively low-gravity beer, maybe I will just pitch the packet without making a starter.

2) Can I expect any character from 8% flaked rye? I thought to use this for head/mouthfeel considerations but a subtle rye character might be nice.


Amt Name %/IBU
9 lbs 8.0 oz CHÂTEAU PILSEN 2RS (1.5 SRM) 88.4 %
14.0 oz Rye, Flaked (Briess) (4.6 SRM) 8.1 %
6.0 oz Caramunich III (Weyermann - 71 SRM) 3.5 %
0.60 oz Styrian Aurora [7.50%] - FWH (90min) 19.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Styrian Celeja [2.80%] - 5min 4.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min)
1.0 pkg French Saison Ale - WLP590

Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 12.0 oz
Mash at 148 F, 1.6qt/lb, 75min. Batch sparge x2.
90min boil.

Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054
Estimated FG: 1.009
Estimated ABV: 6.0%
Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.1 IBUs

 

[TrannyRock]

9 lbs 8.0 oz CHÂTEAU PILSEN 2RS (1.5 SRM) 88.4 %
14.0 oz Rye, Flaked (Briess) (4.6 SRM) 8.1 %
6.0 oz Caramunich III (Weyermann - 71 SRM) 3.5 %
0.60 oz Styrian Aurora [7.50%] - FWH (90min) 19.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Styrian Celeja [2.80%] - 7min 3.0 IBUs
1.40 oz Styrian Celeja [2.80%] - 0.1min 0.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min)
1.0 pkg French Saison Ale - WLP590


OK, I brewed this on 4/30. OG 1.058. Pitched (all of) an active 2L starter. I fermented at 64 for 2 days, warmed to 68 for two days, I am now warming to 72. Gravity now is 1.017, though my samples are really turbid with lots of yeast/break material which is still actively swirling in the fermenter (ie, I think fermentation is still proceeding actively). I had obvious yeast activity less than 2 hours after pitching.

The sample is quite fragrant and saison-y, despite my concerns about this being a "clean" yeast. As I hopped somewhat aggressively maybe it's unwise to draw too many conclusions about yeast character, but there's a dominant citrus (slightly puckery) effect on the palate, and unobtrusive spice. May be the power of suggestion but I perceive the glycolic mouthfeel for which 3711 is known.

Note that while my initial fermentation was at 64, WLP590 does not appear to be the ravenous monster that 3711 is.

My plan is to keep ramping up temps every 2 days until I get to 76, then hold until fermentation is done - hopefully about 1.008, then cold crash. I expect to keg this within a month and start drinking it at that time, I will update this post with more notes.

 

[beerguyfrmsd]

I like the grain bill, I have used the WLP590 in a rye saison in past recipes. It dries really well. I would not be suprised though if it dries out to 1.003 to 1.006. Fermentation for me was a little sluggish, but it just keeps going. I did start my ferm temp at 69f, then rised to 75-78. This strain gave off nice white grape chardonnay characteristics, that works well with the spicyness of the Rye. I use 25% rye malt in my saison recipe. I plan on brewing a Saison IPA with this strain this month. Let me know how your final gravity turns out. Cheers brotha

 

[SteveLikesBeer]

WLP590 is a great yeast. I recently kegged a saison using it and was pleasantly surprised by the outcome. Much more aroma than I expected! My go to in the past has been the Belgian strains. I raised to ~80F, dried down to 1.005, and ended up getting some peppery notes which I love in the style.

Your bill looks great. Looking forward to hearing the results!

 

[TrannyRock]

I kegged this 16 days ago, and was unhappy with it at first. It was one-dimensionally tart - sort of citric from the yeast and bitter from the hops together in a really distracting and unpleasant way - and there was an unwanted, hot perception of alcohol. After about two weeks, though, this puckery-ness mellowed out some and the malt balanced out the taste - unsurprisingly there's no obvious rye component although I do perceive the beer to benefit from the Caramunich, which I think rounds out the bottom with a slight caramel note. There's some perfumy hop aroma that blends well with the (still dominant) yeast notes. There is a rich, smooth mouthfeel despite finishing at 1.005.

I'm at a bit of a loss to describe the WLP590 character. I get sort of an orange-peel and clove sense on my palate, I guess, and an indiscriminately fruity (grape and orange?) nose with a little spice. (Additionally, there's a bright malt and perfumy hop aroma.) For now, I'm really enjoying it. Nothing necessarily to distinguish it from 3711, for me.

The balance seems to have been helped quite a bit by increasing carbonation from 3.0 to 3.5 volumes.

Excellent clarity, though I must admit to using a secondary carboy. The yeast was kind of powdery after a cold crash.

Fermentation breakdown:
Pitched 2qt starter into 1.058 wort at 64oF, held at this temperature. Signs of activity in less than 2hrs.
2 days later, warmed to/held at 68oF.
2 days later, warmed to/held at 72oF.
2 days later, cooled back to 68oF, held for 4 days before cold crashing.

 

[Nicolas P69]

Brew a saison with this WLP590, OG->1.043. 7 days later I took a gravity and it was in 1.006!!!.I also notice a sulfur aroma. Anyone has also notice this sulfur aroma?
Its very unusual, supposedly should be "clean", I dont know if could be because of the fast fermentation or because it was a very old yeast(1 year -> had to do 2 stage starter)

 

[TrannyRock]

I don't remember significant sulfur production. Your gravity may go even lower over the next few days.

 

[Nicolas P69]

Its fine now, thanks. Just taste it before cold crash, tart and citric with banana aroma. but I also in the end I get a off flavor( dont exacly what it is) hope with carbonatation will pass
What are your overall impressions and recomendations for this yeast?

 

[TrannyRock]

So I've never made the same recipe with WLP590 and Wyeast 3711, so I'm not sure if they are exactly the same, but they do seem at least very similar. I only used WLP590 once, and the bulk of fermentation was at 64F. Based on later experiences with 3711, I wish it had been more like 67-68F.

The beer evolved quite a bit over about 35 days in the keg - in a good way - I wish I had cold conditioned it for 45-60 days (I was drinking it less than a month after pitching). As many others have said, hops come through well - may want to dial back bitterness as a result and new world hops will probably play well with the citric qualities of the yeast. During fermentation I got a little banana but this dissipated for me... but a few weeks after being kegged I did get kind of a mild bubble gum/cotton candy thing.

Right now I am drinking another saison made with 3711 which was hopped (and dry-hopped) with Citra and Nelson - this works quite well, and I plan to try making a similar beer with WLP590 in a few months.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

The flavors you described were because you kept it too cool during the majority of the ester production period. Don't baby a saison yeast. At first sign of the party, get the temp up and keep it up. With 566, Dupont dregs, and 3711, I punch it up to high 80's and in the summer it will hit 90. I haven't used 590 but friends that have, ran it hot also. Most Belgian and saison yeasts are tarty, clovey, and peppery with little to no funk when fermented cooler. When fermented warmer, expect fruity, sulfury, citrusy, bubble gummy and generally funky.

My hunch is 590 and 3711 are NOT the same strain. With your OG, you most likely would have hit a FG of 1.003 or less with 3711, and would have still detected much funk even at the cooler temps.

 

[Nicolas P69]

The flavors you described were because you kept it too cool during the majority of the ester production period. Don't baby a saison yeast. At first sign of the party, get the temp up and keep it up. With 566, Dupont dregs, and 3711, I punch it up to high 80's and in the summer it will hit 90. I haven't used 590 but friends that have, ran it hot also. Most Belgian and saison yeasts are tarty, clovey, and peppery with little to no funk when fermented cooler. When fermented warmer, expect fruity, sulfury, citrusy, bubble gummy and generally funky.

My hunch is 590 and 3711 are NOT the same strain. With your OG, you most likely would have hit a FG of 1.003 or less with 3711, and would have still detected much funk even at the cooler temps.

I will wait to taste this batch, but right now Im planing brew another batch.
I want more lemony and peppery flavors and less banana. I want moderate flavors, not classic super funky saison type.
Do you think that with the higher tempetures I will achive it?