WLP380 Accentuate Clove/Spicy Phenol

[brettwasbtd]

Hey all, wife told me we were gonna be throwing a little get together in a month and I told her we needed more homebrew for the event! Since I dont really have much time this weekend I decided to brew a quick extract weizen tomorrow (First extract since my second batch a year and a half ago!). I have some pale ale and will hopefully have my stout on tap for the event, so i am only gonna do a half batch since im not a HUGE wheat beer fan. I do know that in the wheat beers I do enjoy, I prefer the spicy clove and really am not a fan of the banana ester! Looking online it looked like WLP 351 Bavarian wheat would be the best, but that looks like a seasonal or my LHBS was out of, as well as the wyeast equivalent!

So I got WLP380 -Large clove and phenolic aroma and flavor, with minimal banana. Refreshing citrus and apricot notes. Crisp, drinkable hefeweizen. Less flocculent than WLP300, and sulfur production is higher. However, searching on HBT it appears people are still getting some banana depending on temps. So my question is - What temps have you used this yeast for and what were your results?

Once again, trying to not get a in this beer Thanks!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

If you really want a lot of esters and phenols try under-pitching your yeast a little bit. I've noticed more banana comes from higher temps so keep it in mid to low 60's

Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

[GuldTuborg]

A ferulic acid rest is often done to accentuate clove flavors. There is some evidence to think the actual results may be yeast stain dependent, and I don't know how your chosen yeast fits into that picture. Still, it would be worth looking into.

 

[brettwasbtd]

If you really want a lot of esters and phenols try under-pitching your yeast a little bit. I've noticed more banana comes from higher temps so keep it in mid to low 60's

Hope that helps. Good luck.

Thanks, I am definitely leaning towards the lower side, however I do think I saw a post somewhere where someone said they got banana at 62 ? I think as long as I pitch right at mid 60s i should be ok.

A ferulic acid rest is often done to accentuate clove flavors. There is some evidence to think the actual results may be yeast stain dependent, and I don't know how your chosen yeast fits into that picture. Still, it would be worth looking into.

Hmm... according to Kai's page it doesn't look like he saw a difference, although not sure how extensive his research on this one aspect was - he is usually pretty thorough. Also, This is going to be a quick extract batch as I don't have enough time to do a full all grain tomorrow. So I want have control of that anyways. Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

[brettwasbtd]

Well its in the fermenter now at about 62-64. So only time will tell. I realized I didnt check the tube of white labs prior to purchase at the store (won't do that again). And the best buy date was October 29th, so according to mr malty i was severly underpitching. Maybe that will work in my favor for the clove? Or it might just stress the yeast out to much. We shall see!

 

[GuldTuborg]

Hmm... according to Kai's page it doesn't look like he saw a difference, although not sure how extensive his research on this one aspect was - he is usually pretty thorough.

He generally is very thorough. While I mean no disrespect to him, I still wouldn't discount the process, as it's used by several Bavarian breweries which are pulling from hundreds of years of brewing tradition. I imagine they know their process very well by now. If you're doing an extract batch, of course this won't matter much (though in future batches you could always mini-mash a couple of pounds of wheat). Yeast selection and temperature control are probably your best bets. Good luck!

 

[Hitokiri]

So how were your results? I'm looking to use WLP380 in an upcoming brew and am interested in hearing what the 62-64 temp got you.

Thanks!

 

[brettwasbtd]

So how were your results? I'm looking to use WLP380 in an upcoming brew and am interested in hearing what the 62-64 temp got you.

Thanks!

I am waiting hear back from my friend who is the big wheat beer guy to probe his memory of this beer as we kicked it during the winter party I had. From my memory if you were to compare the clove vs. banana taste, banana dominated about 65%-35% - Now I severely underpitched at 1 tube of WLP380 that was about 5 months old into 2.5 gallons of 1.045 or so wort. Mr malty said this thing had very low viability. So that may have stressed the yeast and caused more banana esters. Now overall all, it was definitely not a banana bomb, but the clove was pretty minimal. Most enjoyed the beer. But it definitely did not achieve my goal of a heavy clove wheat beer. Hope this helps!

 

[ghpeel]

I like 380, and am presently drinking a hefe thats half Munich, half wheat. It's a nice balance of spice/banana/fruit. I pitched a 1qt starter and fermented mid 60's. I don't really taste 'clove' in any hefe, so be careful that the description isn't misleading you. But this yeast does make a more balanced beer than a banana-bomb that you sometimes get with 300 under pitched and fermented warm.

My opinion on hefe's is that the standard dogma is vastly over simplified. I get plenty of character fermenting them at low-mid 60's and I dint nderpitch them. A friend of mine make an under pitched hefe, then throws a dunkelweizen on the yeas cake, which is MASSIVELY over pitching. They are both fermented pretty warm, like low 70's. The hefe comes out bright and citrusy, but not overly banana. The dunkelweizen comes out with a tangy, dark cherry flavor.

I'm not positive on exactly how to control hefe flavor, but mashing conditions do play a big factor. I'm a single infusion type of guy, so I haven't experimented with the various rests to enhance banana and/or clove flavors.

 

[ghpeel]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I used WLP 351 seasonal Bavarian Hefe for my previous Hefe. I liked it, but it was kinda ... weird. When served at my 'normal' temps ('Merican ice cold, f*ck yeah!) it was all citrus and very crisp. Only when it warmed up a touch (40 maybe?) did the banana/spice character come out. So perhaps try a batch using that yeast, and serve it at 34-36F.

Also, look into WLP 320 American Hefe. Similarly, it is supposedly more citrus than banana. Never used it myself though.

Final note, in the case of the 351 (and probably the 320), the "citrus" character, is NOT the same as citrusy American hops. Its kind of a sharper acidic flavor. Pretty tasty in fact.

 

[Malticulous]

I've used 380 a good number of times. I like 3068/300 better. I use 320 a lot but it will not make a German style wheat. My weizens have not been too consistent. I change them every time. Some made with harvested yeast came out clean of yeast character.

I'm using 3068 now in a dunkelweizen and a regular hefeweizen. Both had very intense mash schedules. The hefe weiss was pitched 9 million/ml and the dunkel was pitched 3 million/ml. It was a mistake but it's now a unscientific experiment.