Why is my beer getting darker with age?

[Pelican521]

I just tried a bottle of my IIPA for the first time after being bottled for 2 weeks and it looks a lot darker than it looked when I racked it to the secondary. It went from like a golden color to a brown.

Why would that happen? It has been in a fermentation chamber the whole time so light wouldn't be an issue. It may seem superficial, but I was really trying to achieve the lightest color for this beer and was a bit disappointed.

 

[freisste]

Possibly less yeast in suspension. Light tends to reflect off of it giving a lighter appearance. When the yeast flocs out, the clearer beer actually seems a bit darker.

Not sure, but it's possible that is what you are seeing.

 

[Cyclman]

+1 as yeast drops out, the beer darkens.

If you're doing extract, you might add 1/4 of it at the beginning of the boil, then the remainder with 15 minutes to go. It'll darken less. Always use the lightest color extract possible, use grains to darken a beer if appropriate.

 

[Thedutchtouch]

+1 as yeast drops out, the beer darkens.

If you're doing extract, you might add 1/4 of it at the beginning of the boil, then the remainder with 15 minutes to go. It'll darken less. Always use the lightest color extract possible, use grains to darken a beer if appropriate.

Why?

 

[monkeeroot]

I posted the same question recently. I was concerned at first because I had never seen this happen so drastically before. I found that when I pulled a sample, the beer turned out looking the way i planned in smaller volume.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/beer-changing-color-carboy-468440/

 

[RM-MN]

Why?

Because as brewers we want to control what goes into our beer. When you use a darker malt extract, the maltster gets to choose what mix of grains are used to get the color. If you use the very lightest extract, there isn't much that the maltster can add so you get to choose the grains you want to get the color you want and with that color choice you also choose the flavors.

 

[Pelican521]

My color change was as drastic as momkeeroots. It was a partial mash and I used xtra light dme at flameout. Like I said, the color looked great when I racked it to the secondary, but got much darker at the time of bottling.

I wonder if oxidation would play a part here?

 

[Pelican521]

Here is a before and after shot. On the left shows how it looked at the time of racking to the secondary and the shot on the right is how it looked after being bottle conditioned for 2 weeks.

Is this normal for everyone to have their beer come out a lot darker than they wanted? I'm trying to figure out what to do (not to do) to avoid this.

 

[boydster]

Is the one on the right cold? Could it be chill haze?

 

[dlester]

Your eyes are starting to dim with age? Just a thought.



.

 

[mbbransc]

Pretty sure oxidation causes the beer to darken. Have the taste changed?

 

[Yooper]

Pretty sure oxidation causes the beer to darken. Have the taste changed?

That really is the main cause of such a dramatic darkening. Oxidation will darken a beer (and wine, too). That's the only thing I can think of that will make a beer change several shades. It's true that as yeast flocculates and falls out and the beer clears that the beer will appear darker- but it's not a huge difference in color in a glass. In the carboy, it appears much darker as it clears from the top down, but in the tasting glass, it's not so different.

In the photo above, it looks like two totally different beers, a light IPA or even a blonde vs an amber.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Here is a before and after shot. On the left shows how it looked at the time of racking to the secondary and the shot on the right is how it looked after being bottle conditioned for 2 weeks.

Is this normal for everyone to have their beer come out a lot darker than they wanted? I'm trying to figure out what to do (not to do) to avoid this.

put the same volume in the same glass and you will see no difference

Light will reflect off particles in suspenstion and once they drop out the beer will infact look darker.

Same thing goes for refraction. Put a beer in a flute and then a snifter. the snifter will look darker becuase of more light traveling thru it.

 

[JDGator]

wow. that looks like two completely different beers!!

 

[HumulusHead]

Regardless I wouldn't worry too much about it. The one on the right looks absolutely delicious!!!


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[Pelican521]

Yes, the taste has changed too. It's hard to describe but it has more of a "earthy" taste. Not crisp and clean like when I racked it to the secondary but more dirty/muddy taste, sort of hard to describe.

In fact, now that I look back at some pics of other brews I've done, they also seem to suffer from this "darkening"

Do you think it's oxidation that's the culprit?

For those who don't have this problem, do you rack to a secondary?

Getting discouraged now, I had high hopes for this brew...

 

[opiate82]

I had a couple of IPA's go from a nice golden color to a murky brown and I traced the problem back to probable oxidation. I also had some tell-tale flavor changes that coincided with the color change (sherry-like off flavor) and a suspect fermenter.

I generally try to keep things in the primary, if I have some dry-hop additions I make sure to flood the fermenter with CO2 when I crack it open. If I do use a secondary it is generally a corny keg and again, I purge that sucker that CO2 before any sort of racking.

*edit: Also, I vaguely recall when I was researching the issue that another possible cause might be not rinsing the oxiclean completely out of a keg then it reacting with starsan and your beer causing it to darken. I think that is what was said anyways but I may be misremembering.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Yes, the taste has changed too. It's hard to describe but it has more of a "earthy" taste. Not crisp and clean like when I racked it to the secondary but more dirty/muddy taste, sort of hard to describe.

In fact, now that I look back at some pics of other brews I've done, they also seem to suffer from this "darkening"

Do you think it's oxidation that's the culprit?

For those who don't have this problem, do you rack to a secondary?

Getting discouraged now, I had high hopes for this brew...

Oxidation gets described as lots of things, and the flavor impacts can vary significantly based on degree of oxidation. One of the descriptors very frequently used for significant oxidation is wet cardboard.

With the big shift in color and your descriptors of a muddy/earthy flavor developing, my guess would definitely be oxidation.

To limit oxidation, keep your fermenter sealed up as much as possible (i.e. take samples when needed to understand where you are, but don't leave the thing open for 10 minutes while you try to find your hydrometer, don't open it just to see if it smells nice at the moment, etc) and minimize transfers. When you do transfer, its best that the receiving vessel be purged of O2 first.

 

[Dcinaustin]

When you were racking did you notice any bubbles in the racking cain or tubing?

I've had a racking cain lose its tight seal as I was transferring and it started introducing a crap load of oxygen.

 

[Ilan34]

Had the exact same thing happen to a DIPA I made recently. It was 95% Pilsner malt, and was very light at bottling. After bottle conditioning, it looks like a totally different beer, almost amber. I may have stirred the priming sugar a little too much because I had an issue with the consistency of it. First time I've seen a beer of mine darken like this.

I can't wait to start kegging so I can start purging everything with CO2.

How do people do that anyway? Disconnect a line from a keg, or what? The logistics of it are abstract to me.

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[mrdauber64]

Would it be possible to save the CO2 during Fermentation by running the blow-off tube to a spare carboy. After fermentation is complete plug the hole with tinfoil to seal the CO2 inside. Then at bottling "pour" the CO2 in bottling bucket. CO2 is heavier than air so technically it should pour and sink to the bottom and create an oxygen free layer that you could then rank the beer under. Would this work the same way as purging the bottling bucket from a CO2 tank?

 

[opiate82]

My regulator has two outlets on it. So one of them has an outside line that has a gas connector on it. I use it to purge my kegs headspace, and when purging a fermenter I'll unscrew the gas disconnect and stick the hose down the airlock hole and turn on the gas for ~30 seconds.

If I didn't have the second outlet then yes, I'd just unhook a keg, remove the gas disconnect and then stick the hose in the fermenter.

 

[Pelican521]

Thanks for the responses...I have a couple thoughts. I don't think I'll be investing in a kegging system so maybe for my next batch I'll skip the secondary and just keep it in the primary to try to cut down on any oxidation.

Also, would those Oxygen barrier bottle caps help in this instance?

 

[opiate82]

I guess they wouldn't hurt but I think if you have an oxidation issue it is happening somewhere during your process and not seeping in after bottling. I think those caps are more for long-term aging circumstances.

Your beer carbing up should leave a nice protective head-space of CO2 in each bottle that will protect your beer for quite a while.

 

[Sideways]

If i were to bottle again i would go straight from primary to the bottle and skip the bucket. Use carbonation tabs in each bottle instead of mixing in corn sugar. This way you limit oxygen uptake as much as possible.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the responses...I have a couple thoughts. I don't think I'll be investing in a kegging system so maybe for my next batch I'll skip the secondary and just keep it in the primary to try to cut down on any oxidation.

Also, would those Oxygen barrier bottle caps help in this instance?

Skipping the secondary is probably a good way to minimize oxidation.

You can wait until fermentation is over, and then dryhop in the fermenter and then rack to a bottling bucket when it's time to bottle.

When you bottle, you don't need to splash or otherwise agitate the beer going into the bottling bucket. I dissolve my priming sugar in a little boiling water (about 2 cups), and boil that for a minute and then put my priming solution into my bottling bucket. I have some long tubing, so I rack into that priming solution, leaving a curl of tubing curled in the bottom of the inside of the bucket, so the beer fills from the bottom and swirls to mix without any stirring. Then, gently fill the bottles with a bottling wand and cap.

 

[Pelican521]

Ok here's an update to this thread. Since then I brewed another IPA, that was even a hair lighter (I used crystal 20 instead of 40). For this new batch I didn't rack to a secondary and fermented and dry hopped in my primary.

At bottling time it was delicious, very bright and tropical tasting. The color was calculated to be 3 srm, it was very light. It had 6.5 oz of hops in the boil, .5 oz @ 60, and the rest were added from 10 min to flameout. I was ver careful when I added my dry hops to try and keep the layer of co2 not disturbed. My dry hop additions were done in two stages, but neither was more than 7 days. Bottle sanitation was very meticulous, starting with pre rinsed bottles, I used oxy clean and scrubbed them with my carboy brush, then flushed with star sans.

Even with all these precautions, this ipa was had the same very drastic color change, going from a nice straw to an amber color after bottled. The taste has also changed from bright and tropical to a muddled earthy flavor that tastes like every other ipa I've brewed (after bottled), with a strange fruit like taste that's hard to describe.

I've been trying to trying to research out why I'm getting such a high level of oxidation (which I think is the cause) and the only thing I can think of is it's how I bottle.

I use my auto siphon with my bottling wand when I bottle and maybe the force of gravity from my counter to the floor is causing the beer to mix with oxygen in my bottles as it comes out pretty quickly.

What are the thoughts on that, and how do others bottle their IPAs that don't have these issues?

Any other ideas?

Thanks for your help.

 

[unionrdr]

It could be the autosiphon. They can suck air pretty easily. I have spigots on all my fermenters & bottling bucket. so I can just use a length of tubing to rack to bottling bucket. While beer level is rising, I add the priming solution. Stir lightly a few times or not.
Bu I'd also suspect the capper. The bell on my red baron wing capper stretched out a bit & the caps weren't perfectly tight. Over a couple weeks they oxidized pretty bad, but no color change. On the other hand, when I used to make apple butter, I had to leave the lids a little loose for a week or two to get the darker color. Then seal'em up to preserve. So that's why I'm suspecting slightly loose caps in your case.

 

[rjstew]

Not much help here, but I had the same exact thing happen to a DIPA I brewed. It was a Heady Topper clone (I cultured Conan yeast from Two cans of Heady) so it had a high % of wheat to lighten the body. Grain bill below. I brewed a 9 gallon batch and split it into a glass carboy and plastic bucket. The color was a light blonde (6 SRM) when I put the beer in the fermenters. I fermented for 3 weeks and then dry hopped the plastic bucket for 10 days (two additions, 5 days apart). When I bottled from the bucket it was still a light blonde and tasted amazing, extremely close to Heady. A month in the bottle and now it's a dark brown, exactly the same as the pictures in this thread and it also has the muddy/bland flavor. I know the flavor of hoppy beers diminish with time, but it was only 3 weeks in primary, 1 week dry hop and 2 weeks carbonating. It wouldn't be possible to drink it sooner and it still had this muddled flavor as opposed to the bright, tropical, floral flavor when I bottled. No "wet cardboard" flavors though. I had oxidized a previous IPA so I was EXTREMELY careful to not oxidize the beer when bottling or dry hopping. Here's the catch, the beer in the glass carboy that hasn't touch air since the day I put it in the fermenter 3 months ago (I know, IPA's are meant to be drank fresh, haven't had time to bottle this one) is also the same dark brown color. There's no way this oxidized since it still has the airlock on and was never opened.

This essentially rules out oxidation. Any idea why this beer also turned color so drastically?


Fermentable Amount Use PPG Color
Pearl (UK) 20.25 lb 86 % Steep 37 2 °L
Cara Malt (UK) 21.44 oz 5 % Steep 35 17 °L
White Wheat (US) 18.72 oz 4 % 40 2 °L
Turbinado 12.0 oz 3 % Boil 44 10 °L


Hop Amount Time Use Form AA
HopShot (US) 15.0 oz 90 min Boil Pellet 5.0%
Columbus (US) 2.0 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 15.0%
Apollo (US) 2.0 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 19.5%
Simcoe (US) 6.0 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 13.0%
Apollo (US) 0.5 oz 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 19.5%
Centennial (US) 1.0 oz 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 10.5%
Amarillo (US) 1.0 oz 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 9.3%
Simcoe (US) 2.0 oz 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 13.0%
Columbus (US) 1.0 oz 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 15.0%
Apollo (US) 0.5 oz 9 days Dry Hop Pellet 19.5%
Centennial (US) 1.0 oz 9 days Dry Hop Pellet 10.5%
Amarillo (US) 1.0 oz 9 days Dry Hop Pellet 9.3%
Simcoe (US) 2.0 oz 9 days Dry Hop Pellet 13.0%
Columbus (US) 1.0 oz 9 days Dry Hop Pellet 15.0%
Apollo (US) 1.0 oz 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 19.5%
Centennial (US) 1.0 oz 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 10.5%
Amarillo (US) 2.0 oz 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 9.3%
Simcoe (US) 2.0 oz 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 13.0%
Columbus (US) 2.0 oz 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 15.0%
Yeasts

Name Lab/Product Average Attenuation
Cultured Conan 80.0%
Predicted Stats

1.074 OG
1.015 FG
135 IBU
7.7% ABV
6 SRM Hops

 

[Yooper]

There's no way this oxidized since it still has the airlock on and was never opened.

Even with an airlock on, the Ideal Gas Law applies, and if there was headspace in the carboy- oxidation is likely.

I know people who aren't scientists talk about the 'co2 blanket' that magically covers the beer- but it is a myth. The laws of physics still apply. Long term in a carboy is fine- but it must have 0 headspace and even then small amounts of oxidation occur. Oxygen even comes through the water (or other liquid) in the airlock, and the airlocks themselves allow air in, as do the bungs. Read the results of this study, geared towards Better Bottles, but this part is about the bungs/closures and oxygen uptake: http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf

Winemakers do age long term in a carboy, but they use antioxidants at racking, as well as employ techniques like 0 headspace in carboys.

 

[jwelch1103]

Even with an airlock on, the Ideal Gas Law applies, and if there was headspace in the carboy- oxidation is likely.

I know people who aren't scientists talk about the 'co2 blanket' that magically covers the beer- but it is a myth. The laws of physics still apply. Long term in a carboy is fine- but it must have 0 headspace and even then small amounts of oxidation occur. Oxygen even comes through the water (or other liquid) in the airlock, and the airlocks themselves allow air in, as do the bungs. Read the results of this study, geared towards Better Bottles, but this part is about the bungs/closures and oxygen uptake: http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf

Winemakers do age long term in a carboy, but they use antioxidants at racking, as well as employ techniques like 0 headspace in carboys.

Huh, who'd of thunk?
Very interesting data!

 

[rjstew]

Even with an airlock on, the Ideal Gas Law applies, and if there was headspace in the carboy- oxidation is likely.

I know people who aren't scientists talk about the 'co2 blanket' that magically covers the beer- but it is a myth. The laws of physics still apply. Long term in a carboy is fine- but it must have 0 headspace and even then small amounts of oxidation occur. Oxygen even comes through the water (or other liquid) in the airlock, and the airlocks themselves allow air in, as do the bungs. Read the results of this study, geared towards Better Bottles, but this part is about the bungs/closures and oxygen uptake: http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf

Winemakers do age long term in a carboy, but they use antioxidants at racking, as well as employ techniques like 0 headspace in carboys.

I'm not talking about long term storage, the beer was much darker 5 weeks after I put in the fermenter. I would think everyone's beer would be oxidized if oxidation occured in such a short period of time.

 

[boydster]

Are you sure it doesn't just look darker because the yeast is settling? Any beer will look a bit lighter while fermenting, from yeast in suspension reflecting light. Once the yeast settles, it looks darker, even darker than it will appear in a drinking glass, because the light has much further to travel through a carboy than a drinking glass.

 

[Yooper]

I'm not talking about long term storage, the beer was much darker 5 weeks after I put in the fermenter. I would think everyone's beer would be oxidized if oxidation occured in such a short period of time.

I think most beers I've judged in competition over the last 8 or so years HAVE shown signs of oxidation, actually. It's the most common flaw. It may not be severe in every case, of course, but it's present in most homebrews I've tasted from a bottle, especially if they are more than a few weeks old.

Anyway, if you're convinced it's not oxidation, then there must be someplace else to look. I just have no idea what that could be- beer doesn't darken without a cause. However, it could be that it just looks darker in a carboy once the beer has cleared and that is just appearance and it's not really darker. If it really is noticeably darker, darker than the wort was, then there is an issue.

 

[pfgonzo]

Yoop, thanks for linking that study. Was new to me, and quite fascinating.

 

[Pelican521]

Ok, well I'm brewing another IPA again tomorrow (gulp)... I went ahead and bought a kegging system and hoping for the best.

The recipe is very similar to the last IPA I brewed which tasted great at bottling time and then went downhill. Here's my plan which will hopefully reduce any oxidation issues:

Ferment for 2 weeks in primary and if FG is met I'll transfer to my keg. When I rack it, I'll pre-flush the keg with CO2. Not sure what the best way to do this is, I figure I'll hook up the gas on 10 psi and just burp it a bunch of times, unless there is a better way?

All my dry hopping will be done in the keg at room temp with the old dental floss trick which has the hop sack (leaf hops) hang about half way down in the keg. I'm going old school and ditching my auto siphon (I think it's the devil at this point) and just use my standard racking cane when I transfer. I'll flush it again with CO2 once the transfer is finished.

After 5 days I'll throw it in my fridge with some gas to carb up.

Then, hopefully, I'll be sending another post saying how amazing my brew came out

 

[freisste]

When I flush a keg, I just take my tank and open the valve with the outlet pointed into the keg. The adiabatic cooling of the CO2 makes it pretty dense compared to air. The whole keg is full of fog, so I call it good. Maybe not perfect.

Then I rack my beer in, always avoiding splashing. It pushes CO2 out the top. When finished, I close the keg and push in some CO2 through the post. I crack the seal to burp some out, then carb as usual in the kegerator. I've never noticed oxidation, although I'll admit that I'm not sure what to look/taste for in a mild case. My beer certainly doesn't taste like cardboard.

Good luck.

 

[Pelican521]

Thanks for the tip Freisste!

 

[Ski12568]

Now that I've read this, my last 3 batches and now my 4th that is in the secondary has had this problem. All extract brews, the NB Irish red kit, NB witbier, and a pale ale recipe.

I looked at my 2nd pale ale today and it's looking like an amber again.

I was also getting a cardboard off flavor in the first 2 batches but I blamed that on no fermentation temp control. The 3rd one I blamed on hot side oxidation from vigorously stirring my wort at the beginning of cooling.

Next time I'll try and not transfer to secondary. I also noticed a lot of head space in my 5 gal fermentor after transfer.

It's a bit discouraging but Im not going to be a quitter

 

[opiate82]

Now that I've read this, my last 3 batches and now my 4th that is in the secondary has had this problem. All extract brews, the NB Irish red kit, NB witbier, and a pale ale recipe.

I looked at my 2nd pale ale today and it's looking like an amber again.

I was also getting a cardboard off flavor in the first 2 batches but I blamed that on no fermentation temp control. The 3rd one I blamed on hot side oxidation from vigorously stirring my wort at the beginning of cooling.

Next time I'll try and not transfer to secondary. I also noticed a lot of head space in my 5 gal fermentor after transfer.

It's a bit discouraging but Im not going to be a quitter

Getting oxygen into your wort before pitching yeast is a good thing. The yeast need that oxygen at the start of fermentation. Your "hot side oxidation" is not causing your issues and if you don't have a good method to oxygenate your wort prior to pitching yeast, vigorous stirring is a good practice to get some in there.