Why don't more of you guys open your own breweries?

[Weizenwerks]

I work in breweries (packaging engineering) and there is a whole lot that is being pushed as a "secondary" concern that is also a huge piece of the puzzle. Unless you're only going to have beer on tap, you'll need a bottling line. Then you need a constant stream of bottles, labels, and other materials to keep it going. Not to mention all the logistics of distribution, shipping grains/ingredients in, and all the other players in your business (accounting, marketing, etc).

To add onto this, when people talk about opening a brewery the single most important thing that is often neglected is packaging. Cans, bottles, growlers, or kegs? Combination? Brewery with a tap room and growler fills? Do you have to distribute via tier system or are you exempted under a certain production? That's what needs to be figured out first, then work backward from there with the business plan. Brewers are beer geeks and love fancy equipment, but packaging is the most important thing to start with.

 

[Slowfro]

Slowfr,
Where ya at in WI?

Appleton area.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Why don't more of you guys open your own breweries?

Because I enjoy brewing too much to ruin it by making it my job.

 

[YNOT2K]

...but that's not why i got education for.

(just joshin' with ya!)

 

[nickharbour]

i wanna be like sam calzone from doghead

 

[hadabar]

I need more of this stuff---> $$$$

I keep spending it on beer.

 

[Golddiggie]

I need more of this stuff---> $$$$

I keep spending it on beer.

I don't spend mine on beer... I spend it on MAKING GREAT beer... :rockin:

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I have been told soooo many times by friends and family that I should do this for a living. It is hard to believe that I am the only one in the bunch that understands what a headache it would be.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have been told soooo many times by friends and family that I should do this for a living. It is hard to believe that I am the only one in the bunch that understands what a headache it would be.

Nope, you're not the only one in that position...

I know starting a brewery would be a monumental task... Unless you sell to a very specialized market, on a smaller scale, keeping it local and such. Then it's probably not going to be easy to actually turn a profit, or keep turning a profit from year to year.

Personally, I'd love to perfect the craft to the point where I can get a great job AT an existing brewery, where I'll be able to make some of my own recipes. Or get into an established brew pub and do the same thing.

While starting my own brewery, or brew pub, does have it's own allure, it comes with an equal (if not initially greater) level of pain... IF you have enough people investing enough money so that's not an issue. IF you can also partner up with the right people to take care of the paperwork and such. IF you can also get all the licenses you need, cultivate the business relationships you need, and such without spending too much time/money/effort, then chances are you'll do well...

I think starting off tiny is a better way. Do it in a space where you either already own the land/building, or a friend/family member will allow you to use it for zero cost (at least until you're making a good/healthy profit). Of course, you'll need to have already established some base recipes to brew, for people. You'll also need to be ready to ramp up production to at least try to match demand. You'll also need storage space for when demand drops on a brew.

LOTS of moving pieces to nail down... Not as easy as it might seem at face value either. Hell, it's probably several fold more difficult than I'm thinking right now.

Would I like to do it (if the stars aligned, and a truck load of cash/gold was delivered to my door tomorrow)?? Sure... I just don't think it will be an easy thing to get out of the basement and into the light...

 

[Indyking]

(just joshin' with ya!)

 

[j1laskey]

If I made it my job, what would I do for fun?

 

[Golddiggie]

If I made it my job, what would I do for fun?

Brew other things...

I'm in the IT field, but I still play around with technology at home... I have a small test lab setup here, that mirrors what would be in a business datacenter. Sometimes what I have here is better than what some companies run. Allows me to test different things before I go to try them at work. I still consider it to be fun.

Of course, you could also pick up some other hobbies/activities...

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Nope, you're not the only one in that position...

Well, by "the only one in the bunch" I meant among my family and friends. I know everyone around here understands.

 

[Golddiggie]

Well, by "the only one in the bunch" I meant among my family and friends. I know everyone around here understands.

Well, WE all know how mortals (or other mortals for some of you) are morons.. Right??

 

[davel57]

I'd love to, but I have to feed my family.

I've talked to several local brewers, and it's real easy to get into a vicious cycle: as soon as you've grown your business enough to start making money you need to expand, then grow more to cover those costs, then you can't keep up with demand again, then you expand again...

 

[Ciliorozo]

I'd love to, but I have to feed my family.

I've talked to several local brewers, and it's real easy to get into a vicious cycle: as soon as you've grown your business enough to start making money you need to expand, then grow more to cover those costs, then you can't keep up with demand again, then you expand again...

Well thats a problem I'd like to have Means you are growing! And thats a good thing!

 

[zachj9292]

If I made it my job, what would I do for fun?

It would feel like you never had to go to work. Like Jim Koch mentions in the commercials, find something to do you love (as a means of income) and you never have to work a day in your life.

And its funny I seen this thread as I was just skimming through all the topics (i just joined). I am working on a business plan for my microbrewery I dream to have one day in the city near my hometown. Ive been going to school for business for awhile, and its boring as hell. I enjoy reading books on small businesses rather than your average management classes in college.

One thing I know for sure...I am getting addicted to homebrewing. Just made a sam adams summer ale clone and added some lime zest. Badass:rockin:

 

[dallasdb]

Just made a sam adams summer ale clone and added some lime zest.

Jumping the gun on the summer beers huh?

It's not quite warm enough for me yet! I'm sticking to my heavy beers until it's t-shirt weather.

 

[Phunhog]

I do have my own brewery!! I just can't legally sell beer. That doesn't mean you can't get others to drink your beer. I think my new business model is to have partys with free beer but guilt trip people into buying 20 dollar brewery t-shirts People will ALWAYS show up for great, FREE beer.

 

[ruffdeezy]

My dream is too open a nano brewery and have a little storefront. Or a brewpub. I'd wanna win the lottery first so that I wouldn't have to worry too much about making a living off it.

 

[CoalCracker]

Mulled over the idea hundreds of times and always come back to a BOP / lhbs. Both would do well in my area. Not an LHBS for 50 miles in either direction and with the growing number of homebrewers, it would be smart. The BOP part of it would encourage brewing, and help support the LHBS in the years after people learn. Seems like a win win. Run this part time till I knew it would be successful.

 

[rvklein]

I make alot of money doing a job I don't hate. If I turn brewing into a career it'll be something to keep be busy in retirement.

 

[Mike_A]

There seems to be a lot of legal red tape, a lot of beaurocracy and hassle to starting a brewery / brewpub on TOP of the rest of the concerns of opening your own small business. I haven't even been in the hobby long enough to consider realistically making a living from it.

I have a decent paying job with benefits such as health insurance, 401(k) etc that would make it a tremendous undertaking to quit my job and start from scratch - and I don't even have a family to take care of, so it'd be that much tougher for someone with a family.

One notion I had, though, was to approach local high-end restaurants and proposition them to give me space to start brewing small scale batches to pair with their seasonal fare. That way, I would think there are far fewer hoops to jump through and hopefully an established restaurant that has a dedicated staff as well as customer base. That would dramatically help chances of success.

To those who say that making it a job would ruin the enjoyment of the hobby, I can see both sides of the coin. Though I'd like to think that brewing for a living would be more enjoyable than what I currently do for a living.

 

[optimatored]

There seems to be a lot of legal red tape, a lot of beaurocracy and hassle to starting a brewery / brewpub on TOP of the rest of the concerns of opening your own small business. I haven't even been in the hobby long enough to consider realistically making a living from it.

I have a decent paying job with benefits such as health insurance, 401(k) etc that would make it a tremendous undertaking to quit my job and start from scratch - and I don't even have a family to take care of, so it'd be that much tougher for someone with a family.

One notion I had, though, was to approach local high-end restaurants and proposition them to give me space to start brewing small scale batches to pair with their seasonal fare. That way, I would think there are far fewer hoops to jump through and hopefully an established restaurant that has a dedicated staff as well as customer base. That would dramatically help chances of success.

To those who say that making it a job would ruin the enjoyment of the hobby, I can see both sides of the coin. Though I'd like to think that brewing for a living would be more enjoyable than what I currently do for a living.

i like your idea, but it would be much less of a hassle for a restaurant to ask their local brewery to create a beer just for them. i see many restaurants in my area do that, and they are pretty darn good!

 

[edgeofblade]

A brew pub is in one of my 20 year plans. I've got a connection to a brew pub owner, and I might do a mini-apprenticeship for a week. That can fit into my current job easily enough.

 

[PVH]

There is a nano brewery in Warren, VT that brews on a 1/2 barrel scale, I think. He sells at one store and one or two farmers markets only. There is always a line and the batches sell out instantly. Lawson's Finest Liquids. Cool business model for those of you thinking of pro brewing.

There was a recent article in the 7 Days Tabloid from Burlington, VT.

I read up on this, and, as you say, it's a cool business model. The website is here: http://www.lawsonsfinest.com.

Basically, it's a large homebrew operation with very local distribution: farmers' markets and a few restaurants/pubs. The marketing strategy is that the beer is the best you can get because it is handcrafted in tiny batches with loving care. The price reflects this. Instead of going big, the brewer has embraced the limitations of homebrewing and markets his beer on those limitations, which he considers advantages. I give a big cheers to that.

With food going in this direction and the demand for craft beer still expanding like crazy, I would be surprised if this kind of thing does not become more common. The easier it gets to test the waters of the market without investing a lot of money, the more homebrewers who will give it a go.

 

[bschoenb]

I'm an old timer and an Engineer..... I don't want to work twice as hard for 1/8 the money if I am lucky..... besides, why turn a great hobby into work ?

 

[Priemus]

At least in Norway there is sooo much money involved just to buy the lisenses to produce, and distribute beer that there is no point in doing it unless you can sell millions of leters a year. There are btw only 2 major brewerys in Norway, and only 3 independant microbrewerys, and those microbrewerys make 10s of thousands of leters a day.

Just not possible unless have super cash. and are prepared to lose super cash.

 

[Golddiggie]

Where can you get 'super cash'?? I want some super cash... Is it bullet-proof? Can it make you fly when in your pocket? How about give you super strength? If not, then what makes it so 'super'??

 

[Priemus]

Where can you get 'super cash'?? I want some super cash... Is it bullet-proof? Can it make you fly when in your pocket? How about give you super strength? If not, then what makes it so 'super'??

Super cash is when you wash your pants with a 20 in the pocket, and it survives. Its a rare thing, cash that essentially fights for its life.

 

[Weizenwerks]

I read up on this, and, as you say, it's a cool business model. The website is here: http://www.lawsonsfinest.com.

Basically, it's a large homebrew operation with very local distribution: farmers' markets and a few restaurants/pubs. The marketing strategy is that the beer is the best you can get because it is handcrafted in tiny batches with loving care. The price reflects this. Instead of going big, the brewer has embraced the limitations of homebrewing and markets his beer on those limitations, which he considers advantages. I give a big cheers to that.

With food going in this direction and the demand for craft beer still expanding like crazy, I would be surprised if this kind of thing does not become more common. The easier it gets to test the waters of the market without investing a lot of money, the more homebrewers who will give it a go.

The local brewpub has brewed half barrel batches on a Sabco system for years. Three beers only. A pale ale, a brown ale, and a stout. They also serve plenty of others.

I brew from 3 gallon batches up to 20 gallon batches. I'm basically a home brewing setup with a brewery license.

 

[zachj9292]

Jumping the gun on the summer beers huh?

It's not quite warm enough for me yet! I'm sticking to my heavy beers until it's t-shirt weather.

I always am a little early in terms of seasonal beers. I'll probably have some marzen ready in september.

 

[Brewmoor]

I would like to give my thoughts on this. I have recently opened my own brewery. Several things I learned since we opened 4 month ago. The most important thing I learned is that what most of you are replying with on this thread is not what you really feel. Your fear is doing the talking.

It does not have to take a bunch of money to open if done right. It does not have to turn into a "job" if you do it right. One thing that has been mentioned that is very true is that it is not easy. You will have to work hard, put in hours, work for no pay for a while, but in the end it is all worth it.

Another thing I suggest is don't go it alone. Put a team together so you can accomplish most tasks in-house. Divide the work and get different perspectives. We were able to open our doors for under 60k. We are brewing on a 2bbl homade system and did most of the construction build out on our own. We have a graphic design(partner's fiance) Lawyer(partner is two years out of school) Production(myself) and tons of friends that believe in us and spread the word. We are taking our time. Starting with the taproom and working our way up to production.

In 4 months we have paid all our debt, started our 1st outside test account, and just made an offer on a 7bbl complete system today.

I work for myself, I make my own hours, and everyday I get to learn more and more about beer. I even get to sneak a few days on mountain into the schedule (36 days this season).

My situation is not like everyone else, I will admit that. I am single, Poor, and own nothing. I put no money into this business, neither did any of my partners. We found friends and family that wanted to invest. It can be done and I challenge all of you out there with the passion to try it.

 

[Mike_A]

That is awesome, Brewmoor. I love to hear things like that. But the real "money" concerns for me aren't the actual startup costs, but rather the money to pay myself and partners while getting everything ready and getting off the ground (the first few months/years I mean). Like I said above I've got a job and benefits already. So if I can pull off starting a legit brewery in my free time, getting it off the ground enough to pay myself, partners and/or staff enough to at least afford health insurance and pay the bills I already have (mortgage, car, student loans being the bulk) then I would quit my job and hit brewing full time.

Brewmoor can I ask, how old are you? I'm 26, single, graduated in 2008 and I feel like right now is the perfect time in my life to persue a dream like this. I'm young, ambitious, smart (not to toot my own horn, but really.), not tied down to any locale or family, no serious health issues etc. so it seems pretty well within my reach. I have to say, reading stories like yours here on HBT truly gives me a LOT of inspiration and motivation.

 

[Brewmoor]

Mike, I am 33 and my partner is 30. He carries a full time job and works the taproom at nights. I am working at the brewery full time and nights too. It is a lot of hard work but It is much better then sitting in the cube I used to work in. I am mostly living off tips right now but we are planning to do payroll starting this summer. We decided to put 4 months payroll in the bank before taking paychecks. My bills are pretty minimal. Rent, Car Payment and that is about it. Like I said I am living pretty poor right now but I have enough to keep me going.

 

[Tinga]

We have a graphic design(partner's fiance)

I don't know this particular situation but be careful with a not contracted / devoted graphic designer. They tend to get taken advantage of in small business situations. My roommate is a GD major and he did some work for my small business. By some I mean he did quite a bit of work from catalog compilation to web design. He got paid very very little. Now that my business has ceased operations I feel guilty I didn't pay him more. Be very grateful for the help you get and make sure you never take advantage of them. Again I don't know the specific people and arrangements in this relationship I hope it works for you.

 

[Brewmoor]

I don't know this particular situation but be careful with a not contracted / devoted graphic designer. They tend to get taken advantage of in small business situations. My roommate is a GD major and he did some work for my small business. By some I mean he did quite a bit of work from catalog compilation to web design. He got paid very very little. Now that my business has ceased operations I feel guilty I didn't pay him more. Be very grateful for the help you get and make sure you never take advantage of them. Again I don't know the specific people and arrangements in this relationship I hope it works for you.

I understand what you mean...... She will be married to my partner in three months. So she will own half of his half of the company soon

 

[Weizenwerks]

What I don't understand about investors is if you aren't willing to sacrifice your own financial investment in your own venture, why do you expect someone else to? If you can't front money for your own dream, why should someone else risk it?

 

[Brewmoor]

What I don't understand about investors is if you aren't willing to sacrifice your own financial investment in your own venture, why do you expect someone else to? If you can't front money for your own dream, why should someone else risk it?

This is very simple. You have an ability that they do not have. They know you can do it and it will make them money. It is an investors job to use money to make money. It is business. Just as it is your job to make beer. They know the value of their money in your hands will grow with your ability.

You may not sacrifice your money but you do your life. Working 16 hour days is your sacrifice. It is business and people with money know that.

 

[Weizenwerks]

They don't know. It's a risk for them. You speak in absolutes yet business is uncertainty. It is far from simple. I've been in and around business a lot of years to know better. With investors, you have a boss. You work for someone. What's the point of the entrepreneurial spirit of being you own boss when you invite investors to be your boss, merely demoting yourself to being an employee?

Working 16 hours a day is for fools.