why do we remove trub again?

[itsratso]

i have read many threads on this and it seems that there really isn't a consensus out there as to whether or not it is needed to remove trub before going into the fermentor. i have seen studies that show that trub is beneficial to brewing and should not be removed -

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/backissues/40-12.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=Qp...0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Schisler trub&f=false

it would be far simpler to just leave it in. it would make it much easier to program trub loss into beersmith. it seems the real reason people like to remove it is it looks terrible?

 

[unionrdr]

Pouring all the trub into the fermenter leaves less clear beer to get into the bottling bucket. I think it can give the beer a funky lil bit of flavor if not strained out,etc. I honestly can't think of one way that trub makes a better beer. I think there is plenty of yeast healthy compounds in our wort to make the yeasties happy without all that trub being left in there. I think the author is reading too much into it & proceeding from false assumptions. My beers are all strained into the fermenter,but still get a very thin layer of trub under the settling yeast. So the amount they actually need can't be much.

 

[mikescooling]

I thought trub was whats at the bottom of the carboy? Are we talking about the hot break? Cold break?

 

[Leithoa]

Like you've read there are those who find through experience that leaving the trub in adds undesired flavors to their beer. I imagine this perception is dependent on methods, starting materials, and style being made.

Trub is used as a catch-all for anything on the bottom of the fermenter. Although it may be more correctly applied to proteins(Hot and cold break) material and yeast cells, it's not incorrect to use it when referring to hop/spice particles.

 

[Akavango]

I did the same beer three times in a row on the same thrub. The first one was the best. I was bottling the beer and brewing at the same time three times in a row. The beer once it was bottled and conditionned was not the same. The first one was better and it degraded with every batches. I have to disagree with your opinion but I only tried it with one beer. You could have a different result with a different beer.

 

[woozy]

Remove it when? I sure as hell don't put it in my bottles. If I secondaried, which I don't, I wouldn't bother to put it into the secondary 'cause why the hell would I. So that leaves filtering out the "pre-trub" (cold break and disintegrated hop pellets) and I strain that. I didn't used to strain it and I wouldn't bother to strain it except if I don't the the "true-trub" (floccated yeast) raises above the spigot line of my fermenter and gets kicked up into my bottling bucket and into my bottles. And it's gross.

Ya got a problem with me saying a buncha muddy sediment in my bottles is gross?

 

[chickypad]

It's personal preference. I don't believe trub causes off flavors as I've noticed no differences since I stopped trying to strain going into the fermenter yrs ago. No off flavors and the beer is quite clear after fermentation.

 

[woozy]

If my spigot were higher I wouldn't strain. But it isn't so I do.

 

[itsratso]

If my spigot were higher I wouldn't strain. But it isn't so I do.

hmmm. ya know what woozy, that's a damn good idea. i am about to put a weldless bulkhead on my kettle. i have been fooling with putting a side pickup tube to whirlpool on it which is why i brought this up in the first place. i think i will drill the hole an inch higher, forget the whirlpool and whatever falls to the bottom remains and be done with it. nice compromise i think.

i should also add that i have better bottles with a bottom spigot which allows me to filter out the trub that falls to the bottom of the fermentor. so that is how i have been doing my filtering, either at bottling or when transfering to a secondary.

 

[unionrdr]

I believe it makes the flavor taste like it's breaking down a bit faster;a pourer quality of flavor.Blaaaaarf...see?! Not to mention,leaving less clear beer to rack off.

 

[aeviaanah]

i have read many threads on this and it seems that there really isn't a consensus out there as to whether or not it is needed to remove trub before going into the fermentor. i have seen studies that show that trub is beneficial to brewing and should not be removed -

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/backissues/40-12.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=Qp...0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Schisler trub&f=false

it would be far simpler to just leave it in. it would make it much easier to program trub loss into beersmith. it seems the real reason people like to remove it is it looks terrible?

I brew 6 gallon batches- I siphon the first 5gal into a 6gal carboy and the remaining 1gal w/ trub into a 1 gallon carboy. I usually get a good 3/4gal this way- it separates nicely after fermentation.

 

[MarcusKillion]

My 2 cents worth is that dumping the trub from the boil pot into the fermenter is only going to result in you having to cold crash or secondary and siphon very carefully unless you want a bunch of nasty bitter crap in your bottle of beer that will stir up every time you tip the bottle to take a drink . also a very cloudy beer perhaps .
I leave about quart of wort/beer behind in the boil pot and the fermenter . A lot less crap in the bottle . Tastes a lot better

 

[Yooper]

My 2 cents worth is that dumping the trub from the boil pot into the fermenter is only going to result in you having to cold crash or secondary and siphon very carefully unless you want a bunch of nasty bitter crap in your bottle of beer that will stir up every time you tip the bottle to take a drink . also a very cloudy beer perhaps .
I leave about quart of wort/beer behind in the boil pot and the fermenter . A lot less crap in the bottle . Tastes a lot better

I normally put almost all of my wort in the kettle. I don't cold crash, or secondary, and I don't have a bunch of nasty bitter crap in my bottle. Of course, I don't drink out of the bottle so it wouldn't "stir up every time you tip the bottle to take a drink" anyway. Most homebrewers would pour their beer into a glass, and not drink out of the bottle and stir up the yeast sediment even if there was only a scant amount.

I have super clear beer, commercial quality, without filtering.

Since I have a CFC, all of the cold break goes into the fermenter anyway so it's not filtered out. I don't worry about hot break or pellet debris. It will settle out quickly in the fermenter, and compact down with the trub. If you rack only clear beer, there will not be any excess crud whether it is cold crashed or in a bright tank, or not.

 

[chickypad]

My 2 cents worth is that dumping the trub from the boil pot into the fermenter is only going to result in you having to cold crash or secondary and siphon very carefully unless you want a bunch of nasty bitter crap in your bottle of beer that will stir up every time you tip the bottle to take a drink . also a very cloudy beer perhaps .
I leave about quart of wort/beer behind in the boil pot and the fermenter . A lot less crap in the bottle . Tastes a lot better

It's not that difficult to siphon properly - the size of the yeast/trub cake doesn't matter, the technique is the same. Like Yooper I rarely cold crash, and at the end of primary my beer is very clear going into the keg or bottling bucket. I get a dusting of yeast on the bottom of the bottles and that's it.

Everyone should obviously do what works best for them. But it's silly to tell folks they're going to get cloudy, nasty beer or have large amounts of bottle sediment just from transferring the trub from kettle to fermentor.

 

[pkrath84]

I'm in the "all in the fermentor" camp. I get clear beers simply by siphoning carefully. I'm using secondaries only to bulk age my stouts, barleywines and beers with lots of adjuncts like fruit, etc.

I didn't notice any detectable difference in flavor form when I did leave the trub behind.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Many people including myself have left Apfelwine on the starting yeast trub for 6+ months.

If it produces no noticable off flavors in nothing but sugar and apple juice, i find it hard to believe you could taste it in beer.

With the exception of pellet or whole hops being down there that long i cant think of anything.

 

[MindenMan]

In my experience I don't siphon, so I have to be careful how deep the trub layer is to not leave behind a lot of beer. When I first started brewing, I lost a lot of beer to a trub layer that also contained the hot and cold break too. I now use Irish moss, let the bk settle while cooling and pour the wort through a paint filter going into my primary. There is a small amount of "dust" that gets through the filter, but it isn't a problem now that I cold crash before racking to my secondary or bottling bucket. I guess I didn't discuss flavor changes due to trub or not, sorry if I got off topic.

 

[BeBeer]

I didn't remove the trub from my wort for my first batch and it resulted in a little off flavoring. Ever since, I've always been removing it before siphon it to the fermenter.

 

[orangehero]

The first article concludes that trub influences yeast behavior and that removal of trub results in better tasting beer (more esters, less fusels), so I don't see how leaving it is beneficial to brewing.

Although the rest of the article may be important, going by that summary, and I think this is good advice, you should try to transfer a consistent quantity of trub and as little of it as possible.

 

[ThatGeekGuy]

I try to minimize the trub, but don't lose sleep over it. I use a homemade hop spider with a reusable nylon bag, works great at keeping hop particles out of the wort and has no appreciable impact on my hop utilization. When I drain the wort into the fermenter bucket, I use a 600 micron EZ Strainer from Duda Diesel that catches additional trub. They make mesh sizes all the way down to 75 micron if you really want to be anal about it. I don't leave a drop behind in the kettle, cold crash and leave behind about an inch at the bottom of the bucket when I siphon to keg. The first couple of pulls are a little cloudy, crystal clear after that.

 

[Malty_Dog]

I strain and aerate simultaneously by pouring the cooled wort back and forth between kettle and bucket several times (through a SS strainer). The first time I brewed a few years ago I made a lot of mistakes, but also dumped trub from boil into fermenter. That was some NASTY beer. Clearly it doesn't hurt to leave it in per the experience of much better brewers out here than me, but I just like to get rid of the stuff.

 

[boscobeans]

Boil..Cool..Pour off almost entire contents of the BK into the fermenter, leaving only a small amount of gunk that manages to stay behind.


It all settles to the bottom after a few weeks and I get crystal clear beer with no unpleasant flavors. Was more particular in the beginning but found there was no difference in my beers.

bosco

 

[unionrdr]

As for myself,the biggest point I always try to make in this regard is straining the gunk out so as to have a very thin layer of trub at bottling time. I mean like 3/8" thin. I can get more bottles of clear beer by having less trub piled up in the bottom.

 

[m3n00b]

Bottled my IPA yesterday. Everything from the bk went into the fermenter. Bottled 4 gallons out of my 5 gal batch. This is after a gelatin cold crash. I also found a crack in the carboy

 

[unionrdr]

That's a lot of trub. The amount I get is about the thickness of that grainy top layer.

 

[m3n00b]

That's a lot of trub. The amount I get is about the thickness of that grainy top layer.

Yeah. It was the most I ever saw. 6oz hops for 5 gallons.

 

[Curtis2010]

I did the same beer three times in a row on the same thrub. The first one was the best. I was bottling the beer and brewing at the same time three times in a row. The beer once it was bottled and conditionned was not the same. The first one was better and it degraded with every batches. I have to disagree with your opinion but I only tried it with one beer. You could have a different result with a different beer.

One possible contributing factor across mutiple batches is that you are going to get some mutated yeast. Although it would only be a few generations, but combime that w other flavor components left behind and yep I would expect 3 slightly diff beers.

And I dont think most of these posts are refering to across multiple batches...just the effects on one.

 

[unionrdr]

I use an average of 6oz of hops in 5G batches of IPA's. But I use hop socks & muslin grain bags for pellets or whole leaf. Keeps things cleaner. And yeah,just referring to this batch effects so far. I don't dump a new batch on a fresh yeast/trub cake. And it'll be a month or two before I use my washed batches of WL029. Still workin on wheat beers,but will make more with different things in it for cooler weather.

 

[DrunkleJon]

After I cool to 80-90 degrees (at least in the summer) I pour from the kettle into my fermenter bucket and filter with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. I do this to separate some of the break material and hop debris (I tend to get a tennis ball worth or less) but it does allow me to get more liquid wort into the fermenter. That extra half beer worth is always nice since on a good batch, the best beer is the last one.

 

[MarcusKillion]

Question for people who pour their wort .
Does this not cause a lot of trub to swirl into the wort ? Or perhaps you are able to hold your BK steadily while pouring and I am not so much able .
Do you find it as clean as using the siphon tube ?

Another point . I bought a 1/2 inch auto siphon and used it and that was a mistake . It sucked so fast that is sucked up the trub and I had a lot to deal with in my fermenter

 

[duboman]

Question for people who pour their wort .
Does this not cause a lot of trub to swirl into the wort ? Or perhaps you are able to hold your BK steadily while pouring and I am not so much able .
Do you find it as clean as using the siphon tube ?

Another point . I bought a 1/2 inch auto siphon and used it and that was a mistake . It sucked so fast that is sucked up the trub and I had a lot to deal with in my fermenter

That's because you need to work on your siphoning technique. Start higher and as the level drops lower the racking cane and continue until you are just above the trub.

I'm with Yooper's camp. I use a CFC as well so break material goes into primary. I don't crash or use finings either and my beer is clear with proper conditioning. I also have never experienced off flavors due to trub.