Why do guys make their first all-grain so complicated?

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Exbeerienced

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I advocate starting out in all-grain with a simple recipe. A simple recipe can and WILL make good beer! I've already read two posts this morning from noobs listing their grain bills and problems. One is almost all wheat malt, and the other has five grains. Why do they so often go overboard? Is it a good thing to let your enthusiasm get you at this point or should you be a little more reserved for that first all-grain brew?
 
Sure, a simple recipe is good so that you can learn your all-grain process and improve on the execution on the next iteration, without having to add stress worrying about a stuck sparge with tons of wheat. I don't really think having five grains is a problem or means it's going to complicate the mash though.
 
Simple and cheap is better for your first IMO. You should know and understand how your equipment works for you before you try more complicated recipes. And then if the first one is a failure, at least it was a cheap recipe and not an expensive one.

My first was a SMaSH recipe with Cascade.
 
Totally!

In fact, I advocate simplicity all the way along. Figuring out your equipment and getting your processes down will make everything easier in the long run. It keeps things cheap and it keeps my brewing very impromptu. I'm pretty sure I almost always have ingredients for something that I can brew. I may not be able to do some big IPA or RIS but I can get a 5 gallon batch done and in primary on a moment's notice.
 
Completely agree, thats why I did Ed Wort's Kolsch as my first All Grain batch. That beer is fantastic and extremely simple.
 
I saw a video on youtube, the guy was making his seem, second brew and was making 120 Dogfish. To each his own I guess
 
Tell me how mashing 5 grains is more complicated than mashing one or two?
 
Honestly I think some people read tooooooo much. I know that might sound strange but it is true. You have a new brewer trying to learn everything he/she can. They get all these great ideas in their head and then go for it. I agree a simple beer is best but what is a simple beer? If your equipment is good they are all about the same to make. Unless your doing step mashes or something like that. My first all grain was a simple pale. My second was the Imperial Vanilla Porter from Denny. They were the same as far as brewing goes. People tend to make things harder then they need to be. Beer is harder to screw up then some here would leave you to believe. I know I might be nuts but I always secondary....dont say that to loud you might get a pile on. I have never ruined a beer because of oxidation. Around here you would think that any little bit of oxygen is going to ruin your suds. Brewing is more about your process then it is the recipe your doing. Most screw ups are because they are not paying attention and might be having a few :mug:. I have about the lowest low budget set up and have never had a stuck sparge...have done multiple wheat brews and without rice (they are not needed with the right manifold)granted my beer sucks but that is design not fault of process. I dont know everything ...heck I barely know anything about brewing but common sence has to come into play here. I feel KISS is more important then recipe.
 
I have to agree with Wildwest, grains are mashed at the same temp for the same length of time, so one grain or 12 grains they are treated the same way: crush em, add to measured amount of water at a specific temp, stir and wait an hour.

If you are attempting a step mash in a cooler or a decoction mash as your first AG batch, that could get complex... but your grainbill has very little to do with difficulty.
 
wildwest450 said:
Tell me how mashing 5 grains is more complicated than mashing one or two?
Click to expand...

azscoob said:
I have to agree with Wildwest, grains are mashed at the same temp for the same length of time, so one grain or 12 grains they are treated the same way: crush em, add to measured amount of water at a specific temp, stir and wait an hour.

If you are attempting a step mash in a cooler or a decoction mash as your first AG batch, that could get complex... but your grainbill has very little to do with difficulty.
Click to expand...

I agree with these two. One grain, or ten grains- they all go into the mash together so there is nothing "complicated" about that. A stout is actually a pretty good first AG brew, as it doesn't really have the pH issues a kolsch might have (most of us seem to have alkaline tap water), and the roastiness can cover some flaws like astringency. Some stouts have 5 or 6 different grains, and can be mashed at 150-158 (for someone with temperature issues in the mash) without too much impact.

I"d only suggest staying away from decoctions or other step infusions for a first brew.
 
Reading a lot on here will definitely get you excited! I'll attest to that. I brewed my first all grain yesterday and went simple though. I bought a bock recipe from AHS. It had 2 grains and 1 buttering hop. I've brewed many lagers, so no problems there. The only problem for me was that I got 4.5 gallons at 1.050 instead of the expected 5 gallons at 1.045.......meh, just means I need to better measure my batch sparges. I know I have a lot to learn, but I'll get good beer along the way!
 
I did Northern's Smashing Pumpkin as my first AG and used 3 cans of Libby's pumpkin and it came out great, but still needed more spices even though I used my own and ignored Northerns inclusion and amount.

A pumpkin is definitely not the simplest to start with but the only problem I had was a stuck drain do to a warped false bottom (it wasn't the pumpkin and I used rice hulls). I had to basically use a straining bag and turn it more into a BIAB but everything came out great.

I think the more important thing for first AG is not the grain bill but more a single infusion mash. I've been doing a number of multi-step mashes lately and it's certainly something to learn hitting all those temps. No matter what the calculators tell me I find there is often variance in the additional infusion temps from what is recommended and what is actually hit. Strike is always exactly on point though. So a simple single infusion is what I think new AG'ers should go with for their first or second brew.

*EDIT - crap, didn't even the second thread page. You guys beat me to it.


Rev.
 
I think part of it stems from the limitations of extract and steeping. They have access to all these types of grains now and their impulse is "A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING!". I went through the same thing with my first all-grain batch and now I've learned to enjoy the simpler recipes as well.
 
I made my first AG about as complicated as I could make it while it being a BIAB. I mean I pulled it off without a problem so go me. The point of it was to have a sharp contrast to what extract brewing was. Also it will help me to appreciate the tools and equipment I add to my set that much more.
 
Hanso said:
Originally Posted by wildwest450
Tell me how mashing 5 grains is more complicated than mashing one or two?​

Agreed. It's not. The wheat is the only valid example.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you guys clearing that up. I was trying to figure out how a fairly simple grist with five grains was my over-complicating the process. Shucks, the only problems I had were the result of my own ignorance. The process itself went remarkably well. Once I nailed my gravity numbers, I could have set the back deck on fire and still called the day a success! :D

The airlock is perking away this morning and (yes - I did sniff the airlock) it smells like beer!

Papa
 
brandonhagen1 said:
i will make ed worts haus pale for my first all grain should be soon to make the jump from partial mash
Click to expand...

That was my first beer I ever brewed! an all grain batch of EdWorts Haus Pale Ale! I still brew a modified version of it quite often, I changed the hopping and swapped the c-10 for c-40.
 
The best reason for a 'simple' recipie is to establish a baseline.

The only thing 'complicated' is the new process. And that is entirely up to your design.
 
wildwest450 said:
Tell me how mashing 5 grains is more complicated than mashing one or two?
Click to expand...

I don't understand this either. If the recipe is solid, there should be no problems. Whether you're mashing 5 grains or one, the process is the same. But, if you go willy nilly trying to make a recipe without experience and just throw in 5 base grains in random amounts, there will be some complications. So I can see how keeping it simple would work in that respect. This could apply to any recipe though, be it AG, PM, or extract.
 
The toughest part about going all-grain is mastering your setup... hitting temps, managing the sparge, pH levels, and water chemistry etc... you could mash 25 grains but it would just be annoying if anything. All of what I said is the "tough" part, but that assumes the brewer already learned about yeast pitching, fermentation, and proper sanitation.
 
I know it's difficult to keep grain bills simple. But the less complicated the grain bill, the less difficult to discern what ingredients contributed what flavors. Ideally, we should brew single malt beers at first, then go from there. I've never been able to do that though. Gotta throw at least something extra in there! (And indeed, it may make for a better beer.)

Out of curiosity, has anybody ever brewed a single malt beer? Come out ok?
 
Exbeerienced, you're coming at this from your perspective, that you think it's more important to learn about what grains taste like what, when many a new AG brewer is just advancing the fun of brewing for them. To me it's more rediculous to expect new AG brewers to be so edited to focus on learning what any particular grain tastes like their first time.
 
I agree, my first all-grain couldn't have been simpler:

Blonde

2-row
15L Crystal

and one 60 min. hop addition.

My most widely liked beer to date.
 
I just made my first AG, breakfast stout from northern brewer. I did the extract version last fall and it was the wife's favorite, so I thought I would do a BIAB AG version now that the extract version is all gone.

Grain bill:
Maris otter
Roasted barley
Flaked oats

Hops:
Wilamate

Other:
Lactose
 
My first AG was an Imperial IPA but not difficult at all. Just two base malts. The challenging part was continually hopping for 90 minutes with three different hops during the boil. AG is not too hard if you gave the right equipment and pay attention to what your doing.
 
I opted for a simpler recipe for my first AG attempt today ... An American Brown Ale

7.5# 2 row
1# Crystal 60
.5# Chocolate
.25# CaraPils
1oz Cascade @ 60
.5oz Liberty @ 30

Efficiency probably but that's what I get for a) not calibrating my MLT and b) not accurately measuring my sparge water! In the end ... I will have HB and that's what matters!

Thanks to all the posts on HBT for helping out!

Cheers!! :mug:
 
I just went with a NB Irish Stout and let someone else design my grain bill. The stout covers up any misses on my mash temps. Turned out spectacular.
 
I think its more important to brew a beer that you have brewed successfully using extract as your first ag. In this way you can compare the two to see how the process changes certain aspects of that particular beer. If you try a new recipe and its not very good, it becomes difficult to nail down what happened. If you have your other processes down, and have been making good extract beers, its interesting to see the differences (or lack thereof). Then brew that 9 malt beer you couldnt really do as an extract...
 
ehh my first batch was a step mash IIPA. went perfectly smooth and the beer is wonderful. only used pale 2 row, crystal 20 and rogue farms independence hops.

second batch was roughly the same bill using simco and doing a single infusion. efficiency was terrible.

im about to do my third AG batch which will be a triple decoction double bock

am i in wayyy over my head? yeah
have i dont a ton of research? yeah
will i learn a lot? yeah
will it come out perfect? who knows

thats why i brew experimental things like this by the gallon. very little to lose but some time and <$20. plus i have a certified beer judge down the street to evaluate my brew for me. its all about having fun with your hobby.
 
Damn, i want to be a master beer appreciator! If only they told me this could happen when I was young, it would have been my life goal! Now I am stuck being a stupid computer programmer.
 
People love to make the simple complicated. It must make them feel better about themselves.
Stick to simple
 
plinyismyhero said:
I think its more important to brew a beer that you have brewed successfully using extract as your first ag. In this way you can compare the two to see how the process changes certain aspects of that particular beer. If you try a new recipe and its not very good, it becomes difficult to nail down what happened. If you have your other processes down, and have been making good extract beers, its interesting to see the differences (or lack thereof). Then brew that 9 malt beer you couldnt really do as an extract...
Click to expand...

AGREED. My first ag was going to be a black ipa, but since i have a case of an all citra ipa i made, im going to save a few bottles, brew the same beer (just use more dry hop), and taste the difference. I cant wait as just going from all extract to PM can be impressive!
 

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