Why? Because I've always done it that way?

[KavDaven]

Ok, because I felt I mastered the single infusion mash schedule, I decided to attempt a multi-step mash schedule.

My first attempt. We'll keep it simple.
Protein Rest, 122F for 20min
Sacch'Rest, 152F for 60min
Mashout, 170F for 10min

I start researching on how to do infusion step mashing in a cooler and I realize something.

I'm using a 5G cooler, always have. Here's my dilemma. Every single time I have ever mashed out, I would batch sparge with 170F water.

This is wrong, right? My mash out water infusion should be higher in temp to get the grain 168-170F? So, for the last two years or so, I've just batch sparged with 170F water, without a thought to the grain bed temp. I must have been mashing out at a temp less than 168. What effect could this have had on my previous beers?

Lastly, can anyone point me in the right direction to a calculator to assist me this day?

 

[Kee]

Ok, because I felt I mastered the single infusion mash schedule, I decided to attempt a multi-step mash schedule.

My first attempt. We'll keep it simple.
Protein Rest, 122F for 20min
Sacch'Rest, 152F for 60min
Mashout, 170F for 10min

I start researching on how to do infusion step mashing in a cooler and I realize something.

I'm using a 5G cooler, always have. Here's my dilemma. Every single time I have ever mashed out, I would batch sparge with 170F water.

This is wrong, right? My mash out water infusion should be higher in temp to get the grain 168-170F? So, for the last two years or so, I've just batch sparged with 170F water, without a thought to the grain bed temp. I must have been mashing out at a temp less than 168. What effect could this have had on my previous beers?

Lastly, can anyone point me in the right direction to a calculator to assist me this day?

Unless you mash really thick and at low temperatures, you probably do not even need the mash out. If you have not had any trouble lautering (i.e. stuck sparges), no harm no foul. Palmer in How to Brew discusses how the mash out preserves the sugar profile of the wort, then adds that he usually doesn't mash out. I certainly can't tell the difference.

 

[riderkb]

The primary effect of a low mash out temp is a slightly reduced yield. You probably couldn't measure the difference due to normal batch to batch variation. There might be a secondary effect from deactivating the enzymes and locking in your sugar profile, but that would be even harder to measure.

 

[giraffe]

The higher temp is also supposed to make the sugar a bit more soluble. You might gain 1-2% efficiency. Or not.

 

[kh54s10]

From what I have read the mash out is important to deactivate the enzymes and lock in you sugar profile while fly sparging which can take about an hour. The profile will change during this time if you don't do a mash out.

When batch sparging this time is significantly reduced. Thus less of a concern. I do most of my batch sparging at about 168 degrees with no mash out.

 

[stpug]

A simple tool would be the 'Rest Calculator' on Green Bay Rackers:
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

That ought to help you out with your step volumes. I always add about a quart to the estimated volume as insurance, and if you're well above sea level then you might want to add 2 quarts.

As far as performing a 2+ step mash in a 5G cooler, you'll have to plan this carefully because you'll quickly run out of room; and any grainbill greater than about 10lbs probably just can't be fully step-mashed with a mashout in a 5G cooler.

As far as implementing a step mash in a 5G cooler: plan carefully. Plan on a very thick protein rest (0.7-0.8 quarts/lb); plan on a thick mash (1.0-1.1 quarts/lb); plan on filling your 5G to the brim to reach a proper mashout using boiling water. IMO, a "proper" mashout in batch sparging is unnecessary if you're moving your first running to the stove while you collect your second (and I would recommend this method as a substitute for mashout). If you remove the mashout from your process then it gives you a lot more leeway for step mashing techniques and step rests in your cooler.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

Cheers!

 

[KavDaven]

Ok, my brew day went off without a hitch on Saturday (23AUG).

On Friday, I discovered that the 10" banjou burner I bought wouldn't fit the OEM stand that came with the 2" burner I bought years ago. So, I went to Lowes and bought a bunch of slotted angle iron. I didn't have a angle grinder or a chop saw. So, I used my 8" bench grinder to cut some grooves and my bench vise to bend and snap the pieces off. Eventually, around midnight, I had my single tier, single burner, not higher than 16" brew stand in operation.

Now, come Saturday, I'm ready to take everyone's suggestion on step infusion mashing in a 5G cooler. First, I throw away my 5 gallon nylon bag. Then, finally, install a SS braid inside the cooler. Ok, 10lbs of grain at 122F with 9.25Qts for 20min. Then, I add nearly boiling water, 210F, until I get to 152F. Nearly topped off my cooler. More importantly, 'stpug' was dead on with Green Bay Rackers. Awesome calculator. No way would I try to step mash more than 10lbs of grain in a 5G cooler.

Right about this time, my right eye starts to bother me. Whatever. Then I mash out, drained off the cooler into the kettle. Then stirred in/added 180F of 2.5G water for 10min. Drained then stirred in/added another 2.5G of 180F water. My eye is killing me. Drained that off into the kettle. All in all, I have about 8G of wort for a 90 min boil on NB's Phat Tyre. This 10" burner is wicked awesome! Heating up the water takes no time at all now. I swear I'm going to use a spoon to remove my eye ball.

So, I look into the mirror and I have a tiny black speck on my cornea. Wow. Great idea to use a bench grinder to cut angle iron. Q-tip, nope. Back to the boil. I'm tearing up the entire time. Partly because my brew day is going so awesome. Partly, because my neighbor and fellow brew buddy is stuck at his house entertaining the in-laws. Mainly, because a piece of steel is trying to drill its way through my eye and into my brain. Swmbo is watching over me with deep concern for my health but I suspect she thinks I'm losing my grip on sanity.

90min boil goes off without a hitch. I use an IC to drop the temp to low 100F. I transfer the wort to a 5G pail nestled inside a 8G pot filled with ice water. I hook the IC up to a water pump inside the ice water. Drop the temp to 75F. Instead of hitting 1.052, I go all the way to 1.060. First time ever exceeding my SG goal. To aerate, I use a venturi tube on an auto-siphon. My eye ball is on fire and I'm beginning to look like a pirate. On my iPhone, I look up medical advice for embedded or adhered objects to corneas. Everyone says to run to the emergency room. But I haven't pitched my yeast yet. I get fed up with my extremely slow venturri tube so I just trandfer the wort from pale to pale until its nice and frothy.

To pitch the yeast, I grab my flask and find the stir bar with a magnet. Pitch the yeast and tuck my Belgian ale inside my freezer fermentor.

Magnet.

Magnet. Yeast. DIY cigar box stir plate. Fan. Really powerful HD magnet.

Yep. There I am on my best brew day ever. Standing in front of the mirror. Tears streaming down my face. I take the HD magnet out of the star san. Slowly come up to my eye in the mad hope that I'll somehow pull this speck of metal off of and out of my eye.

No luck. I'm going to the ophthalmologist tomorrow.

 

[stpug]

Great follow-up, and sorry to hear about the metal shaving in your eye. My buddy had that happen a couple times and he said it was like fishing out a sliver in your hand with a needle (jab, pick, jab, pick, jab, pick... until you can grab on to it with tweezers). Hopefully your process is a bit more sophisticated.

Let us know how the beer turns out.

 

[dirtyb15]

Ok, my brew day went off without a hitch on Saturday (23AUG).

On Friday, I discovered that the 10" banjou burner I bought wouldn't fit the OEM stand that came with the 2" burner I bought years ago. So, I went to Lowes and bought a bunch of slotted angle iron. I didn't have a angle grinder or a chop saw. So, I used my 8" bench grinder to cut some grooves and my bench vise to bend and snap the pieces off. Eventually, around midnight, I had my single tier, single burner, not higher than 16" brew stand in operation.

Now, come Saturday, I'm ready to take everyone's suggestion on step infusion mashing in a 5G cooler. First, I throw away my 5 gallon nylon bag. Then, finally, install a SS braid inside the cooler. Ok, 10lbs of grain at 122F with 9.25Qts for 20min. Then, I add nearly boiling water, 210F, until I get to 152F. Nearly topped off my cooler. More importantly, 'stpug' was dead on with Green Bay Rackers. Awesome calculator. No way would I try to step mash more than 10lbs of grain in a 5G cooler.

Right about this time, my right eye starts to bother me. Whatever. Then I mash out, drained off the cooler into the kettle. Then stirred in/added 180F of 2.5G water for 10min. Drained then stirred in/added another 2.5G of 180F water. My eye is killing me. Drained that off into the kettle. All in all, I have about 8G of wort for a 90 min boil on NB's Phat Tyre. This 10" burner is wicked awesome! Heating up the water takes no time at all now. I swear I'm going to use a spoon to remove my eye ball.

So, I look into the mirror and I have a tiny black speck on my cornea. Wow. Great idea to use a bench grinder to cut angle iron. Q-tip, nope. Back to the boil. I'm tearing up the entire time. Partly because my brew day is going so awesome. Partly, because my neighbor and fellow brew buddy is stuck at his house entertaining the in-laws. Mainly, because a piece of steel is trying to drill its way through my eye and into my brain. Swmbo is watching over me with deep concern for my health but I suspect she thinks I'm losing my grip on sanity.

90min boil goes off without a hitch. I use an IC to drop the temp to low 100F. I transfer the wort to a 5G pail nestled inside a 8G pot filled with ice water. I hook the IC up to a water pump inside the ice water. Drop the temp to 75F. Instead of hitting 1.052, I go all the way to 1.060. First time ever exceeding my SG goal. To aerate, I use a venturi tube on an auto-siphon. My eye ball is on fire and I'm beginning to look like a pirate. On my iPhone, I look up medical advice for embedded or adhered objects to corneas. Everyone says to run to the emergency room. But I haven't pitched my yeast yet. I get fed up with my extremely slow venturri tube so I just trandfer the wort from pale to pale until its nice and frothy.

To pitch the yeast, I grab my flask and find the stir bar with a magnet. Pitch the yeast and tuck my Belgian ale inside my freezer fermentor.

Magnet.

Magnet. Yeast. DIY cigar box stir plate. Fan. Really powerful HD magnet.

Yep. There I am on my best brew day ever. Standing in front of the mirror. Tears streaming down my face. I take the HD magnet out of the star san. Slowly come up to my eye in the mad hope that I'll somehow pull this speck of metal off of and out of my eye.

No luck. I'm going to the ophthalmologist tomorrow.

Never fun getting a metal shaving in the eye. I have had luck in the past using a tissue. Roll a tissue into a point and try dabbing the metal shaving. Its worked for me in the past and if it doesnt, no risk of scratching your eye...

 

[riderkb]

That is hardcore brewing dedication. The beer gods will reward thee.

Hope you went with the pro services to get the metal out of your eye. I've been there. The good news is that they give you novicane eye drops. Instant relief.

 

[Kee]

Great update. Regarding the eye injury, you have my sympathy. As a welder/fitter I have been there (I won't say how many times, I may be branded a slow learner). Now I use double eye protection, such as safety glasses and a hood.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Back to brewing... I've never done anything other than a single rest mash, but for a step mash isn't it acceptable to dough in with all the required water, then draw off wort and reheat to target temps, instead of adding more at each rest? seems like less likely to overrun the mash tun this way.

 

[Homercidal]

Sucks about the eye injury. At least you got the beer done though...

I would have seriously gone to the ER and finished the beer later. I've had things stuck in my eye before and there is no way I would have gone that long without gettign some numbing drop!

 

[passedpawn]

The magnet idea was brilliant. Never would have thought of that myself.

Back to brewing, skip the mash out and just batch sparge with 200F. That's what I do.

 

[riderkb]

William_shakes:
You don't want to draw off any liquid in the middle of the mash because most of the chemistry is happening in the liquid part. There might be unconverted starch in there.

 

[LandoLincoln]

No luck. I'm going to the ophthalmologist tomorrow.

I had metal shavings embedded in my eye before. I don't remember how many days I waited before seeing the eye doctor, but right before they numbed my eye AND TOOK A MINIATURE GRINDER TO MY EYEBALL, it was probably the most painful thing I had ever felt.

The procedure itself wasn't so bad. Just don't think about them taking A MINIATURE GRINDER TO YOUR EYEBALL and you'll be okay.

 

[TheLiquidBakery]

I had metal shavings embedded in my eye before. I don't remember how many days I waited before seeing the eye doctor, but right before they numbed my eye AND TOOK A MINIATURE GRINDER TO MY EYEBALL, it was probably the most painful thing I had ever felt.

The procedure itself wasn't so bad. Just don't think about them taking A MINIATURE GRINDER TO YOUR EYEBALL and you'll be okay.

Ok, my brew day went off without a hitch on Saturday (23AUG).

On Friday, I discovered that the 10" banjou burner I bought wouldn't fit the OEM stand that came with the 2" burner I bought years ago. So, I went to Lowes and bought a bunch of slotted angle iron. I didn't have a angle grinder or a chop saw. So, I used my 8" bench grinder to cut some grooves and my bench vise to bend and snap the pieces off. Eventually, around midnight, I had my single tier, single burner, not higher than 16" brew stand in operation.

Now, come Saturday, I'm ready to take everyone's suggestion on step infusion mashing in a 5G cooler. First, I throw away my 5 gallon nylon bag. Then, finally, install a SS braid inside the cooler. Ok, 10lbs of grain at 122F with 9.25Qts for 20min. Then, I add nearly boiling water, 210F, until I get to 152F. Nearly topped off my cooler. More importantly, 'stpug' was dead on with Green Bay Rackers. Awesome calculator. No way would I try to step mash more than 10lbs of grain in a 5G cooler.

Right about this time, my right eye starts to bother me. Whatever. Then I mash out, drained off the cooler into the kettle. Then stirred in/added 180F of 2.5G water for 10min. Drained then stirred in/added another 2.5G of 180F water. My eye is killing me. Drained that off into the kettle. All in all, I have about 8G of wort for a 90 min boil on NB's Phat Tyre. This 10" burner is wicked awesome! Heating up the water takes no time at all now. I swear I'm going to use a spoon to remove my eye ball.

So, I look into the mirror and I have a tiny black speck on my cornea. Wow. Great idea to use a bench grinder to cut angle iron. Q-tip, nope. Back to the boil. I'm tearing up the entire time. Partly because my brew day is going so awesome. Partly, because my neighbor and fellow brew buddy is stuck at his house entertaining the in-laws. Mainly, because a piece of steel is trying to drill its way through my eye and into my brain. Swmbo is watching over me with deep concern for my health but I suspect she thinks I'm losing my grip on sanity.

90min boil goes off without a hitch. I use an IC to drop the temp to low 100F. I transfer the wort to a 5G pail nestled inside a 8G pot filled with ice water. I hook the IC up to a water pump inside the ice water. Drop the temp to 75F. Instead of hitting 1.052, I go all the way to 1.060. First time ever exceeding my SG goal. To aerate, I use a venturi tube on an auto-siphon. My eye ball is on fire and I'm beginning to look like a pirate. On my iPhone, I look up medical advice for embedded or adhered objects to corneas. Everyone says to run to the emergency room. But I haven't pitched my yeast yet. I get fed up with my extremely slow venturri tube so I just trandfer the wort from pale to pale until its nice and frothy.

To pitch the yeast, I grab my flask and find the stir bar with a magnet. Pitch the yeast and tuck my Belgian ale inside my freezer fermentor.

Magnet.

Magnet. Yeast. DIY cigar box stir plate. Fan. Really powerful HD magnet.

Yep. There I am on my best brew day ever. Standing in front of the mirror. Tears streaming down my face. I take the HD magnet out of the star san. Slowly come up to my eye in the mad hope that I'll somehow pull this speck of metal off of and out of my eye.

No luck. I'm going to the ophthalmologist tomorrow.

I laughed way too hard while reading these post. Sorry for laughing but i couldn't resist. Always remember safety first then team work.