Whirlpool if no chill (hot cubing)?

[Papa]

Hey, I've gone with no-chill / hot-cubing in recent brews and aiming to further simplify my brew day. Rather than trading off whirlpool / trub removal vs peak sanitation, I keep the wort on a rolling boil whilst pumping it to the hot cube (and then turning off the heating element before pumping out the last gallon).

For the most recent batch I sat the cooled cube onto a counter, allowed the trub/break to settle to the bottom and then siphoned to the fermenter, being careful not to draw any sediment. I estimate that around 1 litre (out of 16 litres total) of wort remained in the cube. For this first no_chill+no_trub batch I decided to capture the final litre & all of the sediment into a 1 gal fermenter, to test how different the beer tastes after a few weeks. [I know I could have filtered that final litre and kept it for a starter etc.]

So, my question is this: is this approach ok? Ie is it ok to not whirlpool if hot-cubing? Or does the presence of trub/break material during the cooling phase create any risk of undesirable reactions etc during the cooling period??? Will I get a slightly higher bitterness because I've transferred hop trub to the cube? I could turn off the element, wait 20 min, whirlpool and then transfer ... and this would perhaps change the bitterness slightly - so could i compensate by making the late hop additions 1 or 2 min later (to maximize their use as flavour hops and reduce their contribution to bitterness)??

I hope the post is clear and the questions not too vague. Very keen to do the no-chill well, and use it as an efficient / effective shortcut, not a compromise short cut!

Thanks, Papa!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I believe a test was done. Brulosophy did an experiment where No chill did make a difference in bitterness in an IPA. Makes sense that it would. A lighty hopped beer like a Red most likely would work with no chill. I've chilled to around 110 to sort of split the difference between full chill and no chill will no difference in flavor.

Don't fear the trub. I suck up every drop out of the BK into the fermenter and never get off flavors. It all settles out in the fermenter. Why waste perfectly good beer

 

[Papa]

So why is such a big deal made about whirlpooling? Is it all about the yeast harvest?

 

[Papa]

I'd expect a materially higher risk of infection if you're no-chilling to 110oF as that's in the prime zone for bacterial infection, or is it just above the 'zone'?? Do you give your chill cube a burst of boiling hot water, or just standard sanitizer (phos acid?)?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I don't use a cube. I just transfer to a 6.5 bucket and let it naturally drop to pitch temp (65) overnight and pitch the next day. Air born infections are overrated. Keep you fermenter clean and you'll be fine.

I don't whirlpool I just steep my hops at flameout

Yeast is collected after fermentation from The ferm bucket (yeast cake) not the Brew kettle.

After racking your beer to bottle/keg swirl up the yeast cake and dump in a mason jar. That's your yeast for the next batch...that simple

 

[Papa]

Hey JonnyR - I appreciate the yeast cake comes from the fermenter!!! I think I'd quit brewing if I ever saw yeast cake in my kettle. I think some home brewers like to harvest a clean yeast cake free of trub/hops etc for their next batch. Hence trub removal before trasfering to the fermenter.

 

[RM-MN]

Hey JonnyR - I appreciate the yeast cake comes from the fermenter!!! I think I'd quit brewing if I ever saw yeast cake in my kettle. I think some home brewers like to harvest a clean yeast cake free of trub/hops etc for their next batch. Hence trub removal before trasfering to the fermenter.

Clean yeast is a desirable item but it really is overrated. If the trub spent 2 weeks in the fermenter without going bad, it won't go bad if it is in your yeast cake.

When you do a no-chill batch, any late addition hops that the recipe calls for as flavoring or aroma hops now become bittering hops as the hop oils keep isomerizing as the wort cools to below 180 F. and maybe even a bit longer. It works well for the recipes with no late additions.

If you use a bucket for a fermenter you can forgo the cube. Dump your hot wort into the bucket and put the lid on. No bacteria can survive at temperature over about 140F (pasteurization temperature for milk) and that hot wort will heat the lid higher than that in most cases. I think that you could chill the wort below 170, then add your late addition hops without getting more bittering but you'd have to monitor the temps for that.

 

[Papa]

Thanks RM. Excellent insights. Can you comment on the benefit of whirlpooling? Why is trub removal important? What does it add to or take away from the final beer?

 

[RM-MN]

What whirlpooling mostly does is take wort away so you get less beer. The break material and hops actually take up little space in the whirlpool which is mostly wort so when you leave it behind you don't have as much in the fermenter. Trub doesn't seem to detract from the beer and when the ferment is over it will compact down to a much smaller volume than what was in the whirlpool.