which of these yeasts is best for a sake?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

fredthecat

The original homebrewer™.
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
558
Reaction score
37
Location
the world
so i plan to make a rice wine basically following http://www.taylor-madeak.org/index.php 's instructions more or less.

so i need to infect the rice with aspergillus oryzae to turn its starch into sugars and then use a yeast to ferment that.

unfortunately i can't buy the #9 sake yeast.. but i have access to various unpasteurized makkeoli (unfiltered rice wines with live yeast) or could buy some fermivin wine yeast if i order it. does anyone think a commercial makkeoli (they turn sour if unrefrigerated) would be good to dump into a carboy full of rice?

as well... is nuruk (for korean rice wines) the same as koji (for sake)? i dont want a sour product, im hoping to make a cleared up rice wine of undiluted strength (~15%) that i'll pasteurize before bottling

this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae seems to suggest that nuruk is the same. anyone know?

not looking to make some style specific sake, just a rice wine that is palatable
 
is temperature a key to avoid souring? it seems that both koji and nuruk invariably contain organisms that sour. however i am reading that koji can also sour a wine unless the temperature is controlled carefully?
 
Sake yeast is a lager yeast, as far as I know. I would use some other lager yeast before a wine yeast. I'm pretty sure that the site you referenced probably tells you what to use if you can't find #9, though. The site also mentions that keeping the ferment cooler (mid to low 50s I think) will limit the sourness, since lacobacillus doesn't work as well at those temps.
 
yeah, i also heard that and that what you read to keep it in the low 50s.

i could get a lager yeast. would it ferment out dry like sake should to around 1.000 though? wont it poop out past 13%?
 
During my research I have read on several websites that Lalvin V1116 wine yeast works well for sake, so I just recently picked some up. HBT, homebrewsake.com and the Taylor website you mentioned are the 3 websites I have read a lot of lately on the process. I have made my 2.5 pounds of koji and it is in the freezer ready to go. I have purchased 10 pounds of rice also. Now I just have to get my motivation up because it seems quite the process for about a month or 2
 
After reading the OP post more thorough I would agree with madmace54, buy the Chinese yeast balls. You can get these at any Asian market. I am on my second batch of Chinese rice wine. It is a lot easier to make than sake.
 
I've used the Chinese yeast balls twice; one batch plain, and the other mixed with pomegranate juice. It's technically not sake, but everyone who tries it says "This is the best sake I've ever had!".
 
WLP099 is the best I've found. It can approach 20% with gradual additions of sugar as its MO. That's exactly the character of sake/rice wine production.

I posted a list of yeasts I tested in the "traditional rice wine thread" I need to post the results.
 
Lets keep in mind that making rice wine is a bilateral process. You need a starter culture to convert the starch to sugar and a yeast culture to convert sugars to alcohol. These work together at the same time. Chinese yeast balls have it all and they do work. The problem is that you do not know just what type of yeast(s) that you are getting. Might I suggest a Chinese product, Angel brand Rice Leaven. This is rhizopus oryzae and it will convert your starch. It's on-line and it's cheap. You can then follow chonas's thread and find a yeast to use.
 
Might I suggest a Chinese product, Angel brand Rice Leaven. This is rhizopus oryzae and it will convert your starch. It's on-line and it's cheap. You can then follow chonas's thread and find a yeast to use.

I googled this and I THINK I found it at AliExpress. The English translation is HILARIOUS!!!

Thermostability 500g Angel Alcohol Active Dry Yeast Wine Yeast Rice/Wheat/Corn Leaven For Uncooked Clinker

Sexual energy:
Angel brand high temperature resistant high active dry yeast is China's advanced bio engineering products. The product recovered immediately after the product was normal to the cell state. With high temperature (the main temperature of the main 40-42), acid (PH2.5), ethanol (13%), glucose (60% glucose) and other characteristics. Alcohol and liquor fermentation for Tiaogan, corn, rice, cassava, sorghum, molasses and other raw materials.Wine rate is high, not liters acid. The product won the Ministry of science and technology progress three and other award and 94 years of outstanding energy-saving scientific and technological achievements, and included in the 95 years of national scientific and technological achievements focus on promoting the plan.
Use:
This product can replace alcohol, liquid liquor, Xiaoqu liquor and bran Qu liquor production traditional pure culture yeast, can also be added to the Daqu liquor production to make up for the lack of the number of yeast, increase liquor output rate. This product can be normally fermented at high temperature (40-42), and has the advantages of short fermentation period (alcohol 48 hours), water saving and energy saving, especially for the summer and high temperature seasonal production..
Usage:
1 alcohol and liquid liquor
A. dosage: dosage according to the raw material of 0.5-1.0%, the dosage should be slightly larger in winter.
B. activation of water:
Take the 10-20 times the amount of dry yeast 35-38 C water or 4 times diluted mash, dry yeast stirred and dissolved therein. If 35-38 degrees of tap water and complex water for 15-20 minutes immediately into fermentation mash in; if with diluted 4 times of mash liquid, you can continue to cool down to 30 DEG C activation 2 hours, to improve the sprouting rate and promote the role of yeast proliferation. And then put into a ferment..
C. fermentation:
The product can be carried out at the normal temperature at the main fermentation (35), the fermentation period of 72 hours, the temperature control by conventional method. This product can be the main fermentation at high temperature (40 degrees C), the fermentation period of 48 hours or so. In the proliferation phase yeast inoculation, to Canful after about 4 hours, temperature control is 32-34 C, main fermentation period (approximately 12-24 hours) was 38-40 C, after fermentation period (about 24-48 hours) of 34-36 DEG C.
2 Solid State Liquor
A. koji liquor:
Dosage according to the raw material investment 1-1.2 per thousand of the feed (winter dosage should be slightly larger), stirring to dissolve to 10-20 times the sugar content is 2% 35-38 degrees of syrup (preferably brown sugar), can take the place of the fermentation with self cultured yeast, added with bran or glucoamylase for saccharification of slag grains, mixed evenly into the pool. Other technological conditions remain unchanged. The temperature of the pool was not more than 40-42, and the wine rate was not affected..
B. Daqu liquor:
The Daqu yeast quantity is less, the production process of Daqu liquor adding this product can significantly increase the yield of liquor. Fragrance type liquor reducing koji generally in about 10%, dry yeast dosage 0.5-1.0 per thousand; Qu 10-30% reduction of Luzhou flavor Daqu liquor, dry yeast dosage 0.5-1.0 per thousand, saccharifying enzyme (10 million C / g) dosage of 0.3% or so.
C. other (system of vinegar, etc.):
According to the production process to replace the yeast or adding, with stable quality, increase the yield of wine. Methods for the use of vinegar, in the front of the fermentation process with the use of solid-state liquor fermentation.
Bao Tibetan: in line with the national standard vacuum packaging, low-temperature dry place storage, shelf life of 24 months.
 
The company, Angel Yeast Co., which makes a broad range of cultured products, is a little free with the term "yeast". This confused me at first and could be just a translation problem. If you look on the Rice Leaven package, the ingredients are: rice flour, rhizopus oryzae. Rhizopus oryzae, also known as Rhizopus arrhizus is what will convert the rice starch to sugars. There is no yeast in the package. You are free to choose whatever yeast you want. Not true with chinese rice balls.
 
Sake yeast is a lager yeast as a biproduct of the process. The temperature is traditionally controlled by brewing only in the winter months. Because lacto bacteria is present the temperature needs to stay low, to inhibit its growth. If you can find a way to extract the sugar from the starch of the rice grains without mold, then I would imagine you could use any number of yeast strains and temp ranges.
 
Back
Top