when to fly or batch

[Zymurgist05]

I've only batch sparged once in 8 yrs of brewing and my efficiency suffered, so I went back to fly-sparging. My setup for fly sparging results in an efficiency in the low 80's.
I've read all of the pros-cons of both fly and batch sparging. Both will work for your intended purpose. My situation may be different than yours. I brew as a hobby... time is not an issue for me. My brew day typically lasts 5 1/2 to 6 hours for a 10 gallon batch and I enjoy every second of it. My brewday is an escape from the pressures of work and all of the other things that clutter my mind. A few beers, some good music or sports talk radio and making great beer... what more could you ask for?

 

[mendozer]

my fly setup has a good manifold. I vorlauf for the hell of it, but it comes out clear regardless. I think i'll reduce my strike ratio for the mash so i have extra water for my sparge. i think it also has to do with the large surface area of a 36 qt rectangular cooler when my sparge is only 1-2 gallons. it's hard to keep a level above the grain bed

 

[ajf]

holy smokes you sparge slowly, at least compared to me. id your HLT over a burner to hold that temp?

also, what's the reasoning for a slow sparge? Isn't the starch already converted to sugar? what is draining slower going to do?

Yes, the starch is converted to sugar, but the purpose of the sparge is to extract the sugars and collect the wort. With a batch sparge, the extraction is performed by stirring after adding the sparge water. With a fly sparge, you don't stir, and it takes time for the sugars to be rinsed from the grains. Fly sparging too quickly just gives you lousy efficiency because it causes channeling where some parts of the mash get over-sparged, and other parts leave the sugars trapped in the grains.

-a.

 

[mendozer]

so for proper fly sparing, should you drain wort for a few minutes then add the sparge from above? otherwise you're just mixing waters right?

 

[ajf]

For a fly sparge, you should gently add the sparge water from above (so as not to disturb the grain bed), and slowly drain the wort into the kettle. If you drain too quickly, the sparge water will find the path of least resistance, and cause channeling. You don't want to drain any wort before adding the sparge water (other than for vorlaufing).

-a.

 

[Jakeintoledo]

I use Beersmith 2.0 to calculate volumes, ingredients, etc.

I fly sparge, and typically load the HLT with about 1-2 gallons of water MORE than what the profile recommends. I'm sure there's a variable in the equation I'm not considering, but I always need more water than the profile recommends. I sparge until I hit 1.010 (beyond that, tannins begin to be extracted, typically).

I sparge slowly (45 mins) and usually hit mid 80s in Brewhouse Efficiency. Beersmith assumes a default efficiency of about 70%. Adjust that for the efficiency you typically get, and you find yourself needing less ingredients. You end up saving a couple of bucks on the grain.

And when I'm brewing, I'm in no hurry. generally agree with the folks above that fly sparging takes too much time, but for me, a lot of the fun is about the process and achieving maximum, repeatable extraction. But I'm a geek about it.

 

[jsmcclure]

I've done both and think I get a little higher efficiency with fly sparging but not a lot. Lately I've been recirculating my mash so it seems more natural to keep that nice grain bed settled and fly sparge. I always seem to get through my fly sparge in about 20-25 minutes. I've tried to go slower but it just wants to flow that fast. Seems like largely a matter of preference.

 

[brick_haus]

WOW I've got a lot to learn. Sounds like I've been doing several things wrong... Been making good beer though!
I have 3 60 qt. pots. Two lids are modified with a sparge "ring"(3/8 copper ring with several holes drilled in it to sprinkle the sparge water). 3 burners. Mash tun has a false bottom that covers the entire area and is 2" above the bottom. I have two pumps, one to circulate the mash the other I use to sparge. During (fly) sparge I keep the water level about an inch above the grain bed and slowly transfer the wort to the boil kettle by simply putting the lid from the mash tun on the BK and the lid from the HLT onto the mash tun. Kind of Brutus style I guess. I then stop sparging when I only need whats left in the MT to fill the BK to volume. The MT is usually completely draind when I'm finished. I always overshoot my OG by about 010...

Sounds like I should keep the water above the grain and finish with it there?

What else am I doing wrong?

 

[justkev52]

I've only batch sparged once in 8 yrs of brewing and my efficiency suffered, so I went back to fly-sparging. My setup for fly sparging results in an efficiency in the low 80's.
I've read all of the pros-cons of both fly and batch sparging. Both will work for your intended purpose. My situation may be different than yours. I brew as a hobby... time is not an issue for me. My brew day typically lasts 5 1/2 to 6 hours for a 10 gallon batch and I enjoy every second of it. My brewday is an escape from the pressures of work and all of the other things that clutter my mind. A few beers, some good music or sports talk radio and making great beer... what more could you ask for?
I agree 100%. Not work, play.

 

[justkev52]

I use a sparging process very similar to you. However my efficiency hasn't been as good as yours. I have been running about 65%. What temp is your sparge water? Also, do you keep the mash water above the grain bed for the entire sparge? It seems like I have to drain the MT nearly completely to hit my target boil volume. I feel this has added some strong "grainy" flavors to my beer lately. Maybe I need to heat more sparge water.

My sparge water is 170 deg. I always keep the water above the grains 1-2 inches until all the water is gone.
I use lactic acid to help contrtol the mash PH.
I also have my own mill and adjusted it out for a coarser grind.
My false bottom is slotted instead of a bunch of holes. Maybe that helps?
I think so.

 

[Northcalais40]

I now batch sparge as a matter of convenience, because it is a 4.5 hr brew day instead of a 6+hr brew day. When I fly sparge, one thing I notice is that within a few minutes of a 30-45 min sparge the water above the grainbed is crystal clear, while the out flow is still dark. This is a contrast to batch sparging where the sparge is stirred vigorously before draining to assure an even sugar concentration throughout the grain bed.
When she runs dry, I have to assume the grain atop the flysparged grainbed tastes less sweet than the grain atop the batch sparged grainbed. This is why I assume that a flysparge can give higher efficiency. But there are so many other possible variables at play that the old trope of fly being better for efficiency than batch is a bit overstated.

My answer for when to fly vs batch is that you should give it a try, you may find it is more efficient with bigger brews, but you may find it not worth the hassle. You may find that batch sparging works well enough with normal 1.060- 1.070 brews that you are happy to be done in less time. That is what I found.

 

[lockwom]

My two cents as a recent batch sparge convert:

I used to fly sparge, so I built a 10 gallon MLT round cooler with a false bottom to avoid channeling, and 5 gallon HLT.

Switching to batch sparging originally to experiment with reducing brewday length and cleanup hassle. I've stuck with it because now I can consistently hit the same efficiency as fly sparging with less equipment.

And one interesting note, I apparently mill considerably coarser than everybody else (preset Schmidling MaltMill handcranked, so 0.045"), but still hit 85% efficiency on most beers. I like the husk consistency, it lets me vorlauf with a March pump at reduced speed, then drain the bed as fast as possible (Denny's rule?). I think the secret sauce to batch sparge efficiency (for me), is to mash thinner (closer to 1.5 qt/lbs), and stir vigorously before vorlauf. I also worry about mash pH, which might have something to do with decent efficiency despite the coarse milling.

I used to set aside liquor for a calculated mashout volume. Mashouts are nearly pointless for batch sparges, so I instead set aside this volume to boil inside on my stove after mashin, and periodically check on the mash (15 mins) and incrementally add this hotter water to maintain a constant mash temperature, or to make a small step. Important for something with a higher mash temp, like 154, or brewing in colder conditions.

Was going to build a RIMS tube, but this cheap 'n easy solution maintains temperature just fine in my cooler, and I just increase my batch liquor temperature to raise the grain bed to 168ish for the final drain.