All the brews I have done have been really cloudy and I didnt know if this was normal. And we added Irish moss to this batch of ale but haven't seen any differences.. I'm wondering how to make a really clear beer.?
Whats the trick to a transparent beer?
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Time . . . . . . .In the fermentor.
Burgs
Well-Known Member
Here's what I like to do (and my beers are pretty clear):
1. Use Whirlfloc (like Irish moss but in tablet form) - but add it to your wort at the last 5 minutes of the boil rather than 15
2. Utilize a longer primary - 3 weeks for most beers is good, sometimes for slightly bigger beers, a month will give it plenty of time to clean up and clear up
3. Cold crash when necessary - if you keg, get your beer into the keg and into your fridge or freezer and drop the temp down below 40° (I set my thermostat to 32) and keep it there for 3-4 days. Your first couple of pints will be cloudy from all the stuff the precipitates out during the cold crash, but you'll be clear after that.
Also do keep in mind that all of this is assuming that your beers are attenuating fully. If the beer is underattenuated and there is still a whole mess of unfermented sugar in it - it's gonna be cloudy and no amount of the above stuff will resolve that issue.
Cheers!
1. Use Whirlfloc (like Irish moss but in tablet form) - but add it to your wort at the last 5 minutes of the boil rather than 15
2. Utilize a longer primary - 3 weeks for most beers is good, sometimes for slightly bigger beers, a month will give it plenty of time to clean up and clear up
3. Cold crash when necessary - if you keg, get your beer into the keg and into your fridge or freezer and drop the temp down below 40° (I set my thermostat to 32) and keep it there for 3-4 days. Your first couple of pints will be cloudy from all the stuff the precipitates out during the cold crash, but you'll be clear after that.
Also do keep in mind that all of this is assuming that your beers are attenuating fully. If the beer is underattenuated and there is still a whole mess of unfermented sugar in it - it's gonna be cloudy and no amount of the above stuff will resolve that issue.
Cheers!
This would be solved with a proper fermentation?
rycov
Well-Known Member
need more info.
other than what has been mentioned, chill haze can cause a cloudy beer too.
other than what has been mentioned, chill haze can cause a cloudy beer too.
I think all of your suggestions are great, and I agree fully. However, this statement is completely false. Sugars are completely soluble, and will therefore not be visible. Think about it, wort, which has "a whole mess of unfermented sugar in it" is completely clear when all of the break material and hops settle out.
If there is anything I can take away from this forum, its that time heals most beers--at least ones that are not infected or spoiled in some way. In my experience so far I've learned 3 weeks in the primary, 3 weeks in bottles, and 2-3 days left alone in the fridge seems to produce a very clear beer for me. I always am curious about new batches and how they taste as they age, and usually if I try one before it conditions for 3 weeks, I have a somewhat cloudy beer, but giving it time seems to really clear it up.
Just my observations through the batches I have done. Its all going out the door though as I am going to start kegging soon, so I am not sure how my next batch will end up as far as clarity is concerned.
Just my observations through the batches I have done. Its all going out the door though as I am going to start kegging soon, so I am not sure how my next batch will end up as far as clarity is concerned.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
Yup, 3 weeks in primary, whirlfloc, cold crash, gelatin.
FoundlingOfDollar
Well-Known Member
+1 for gelatin.
FoundlingOfDollar
Well-Known Member
Also letting your fermented (or secondary) sit for a few hours before racking to the bottling bucket, and once you've lifted your bottling bucket up to a higher position, letting that sit for a while.
The yeast strain selection can have a huge affect on how clear the beer will be.
For instance, using S04 over 1056 or US05.
I know that most beer styles don't have that flexibility, but it could be something to play around with.
For instance, using S04 over 1056 or US05.
I know that most beer styles don't have that flexibility, but it could be something to play around with.
+1 for letting it sit before racking, granted most of the stuff should settle as it conditions in the bottles, but you do transfer a lot more 'junk' over if you don't let it settle for an hour or so after you move the bucket.
Also...maybe this is a stupid question...but are you leaving the last little bit of beer and sediment in the bottle?
Also...maybe this is a stupid question...but are you leaving the last little bit of beer and sediment in the bottle?
JonK331
Well-Known Member
If you use gelatin, whatever gets stirred up from moving the fermenter settles back out in just a few minutes. Waaaay quicker than without.
My beers have recently started to clear and look a lot better, I chalk this up to experience and a couple of different things I've grown to do differently over my time home brewing which are as follows:
1. Irish Moss in the boil - Always an addition for me except with wheats, I like em' dirty!
2. Pitch it and leave it alone - Lately my beers have sat 5 weeks in primary at the least (the only beer I'll rack early is a wheat, well... and this rushed Oktoberfest I plan on brewing but that's another story...). Sometimes I want to bottle, then bottle day comes up and I just flat don't feel like getting everything out and doing it, then the beer sits another week, then sometimes another. Bottle laziness has truly paid off for me though, clarity and flavor is up a ton since I went from "uber excited to bottle everything under the sun as soon as I can" to "meh, I think I'll take a nap and bottle next Friday"
3. Racking properly - When transferring to the bottle bucket, BE CAREFUL about it! Try not to disturb the cake. Something I used to do, tilt the bucket and try to suck every last little drop of beer I could into the bucket. Since I have stopped doing that and started leaving about a 1/4-1/2 beer behind in the muck, I noticed a lot more clarity, less haze and pretty much no trub in the bottom of my bottles.
As others have mentioned, Cold Crashing, something I FINALLY can start to do, that will help out a lot. I have never used whirlfloc or gelatin but I hear nothing but great things about it.
1. Irish Moss in the boil - Always an addition for me except with wheats, I like em' dirty!
2. Pitch it and leave it alone - Lately my beers have sat 5 weeks in primary at the least (the only beer I'll rack early is a wheat, well... and this rushed Oktoberfest I plan on brewing but that's another story...). Sometimes I want to bottle, then bottle day comes up and I just flat don't feel like getting everything out and doing it, then the beer sits another week, then sometimes another. Bottle laziness has truly paid off for me though, clarity and flavor is up a ton since I went from "uber excited to bottle everything under the sun as soon as I can" to "meh, I think I'll take a nap and bottle next Friday"
3. Racking properly - When transferring to the bottle bucket, BE CAREFUL about it! Try not to disturb the cake. Something I used to do, tilt the bucket and try to suck every last little drop of beer I could into the bucket. Since I have stopped doing that and started leaving about a 1/4-1/2 beer behind in the muck, I noticed a lot more clarity, less haze and pretty much no trub in the bottom of my bottles.
As others have mentioned, Cold Crashing, something I FINALLY can start to do, that will help out a lot. I have never used whirlfloc or gelatin but I hear nothing but great things about it.
cmw6300
Well-Known Member
My last couple of batches have also come out really clear. I try follow the 3-2-1 rule. 3 weeks in the fermenter, 2 weeks bottle conditioning, and I try and sit them in the fridge for a week. I ferment and bottle condition at around 66-68 degrees in my crawlspace.
Nashbrewer
Well-Known Member
Proper hot break and cold break can directly effect the final clarity of the beer. Most of my beers have fermented in about a week and then settled mostly clear in a day or two. Then kegging/bottling will dirty it up a bit while they carb, and then a cold crash and they are clear. The longer you let it sit the clearer they get.
blackbear219
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Just curious, how long do you keep your wheats in primary? I have been doing a lot of wheat/hefe lately and have also noticed they don't need as long to be delicious.
scottland
Well-Known Member
People have touched on the big things, butl et's go over causes of cloudy beer, so you can better understand which fixes do what.
A. Starch haze. This is caused from steeping grains that need to be mashed, or not achieving complete conversion during the mash. Starch unfortunately never settles out, and gelatin won't clear it.
Fix: Do a mini-mash if you are steeping grains that require mashing (which are most grains other than Crystal), or if all-grain, do an iodine test to verify you have complete conversion.
B. Yeast in suspension. Yeast remaining in suspension will leave the beer cloudy, and give the beer a lighter color than expected (think hefewiezen or wit).
Fix: Use a higher flocculating yeast strain, give the beer more time in primary, cold crash the beer, or using gelatin to fine will all help.
C. Chill Haze. Chill haze proteins are proteins that precipitate at fridge temps in beer. If your beer is clear at room temp, but cloudy at fridge temps, this is the culprit.
Fix: Prevention is the best solution here. Getting a good cold break goes a long way toward preventing chill haze. Cold break are proteins that precipitate out of the wort as you chill it from boiling to pitching temps. The faster you can chill it the more cold break you'll generally see. Irish moss and/or Whirlfloc aid in this process. Cold conditioning is another method that helps fix chill haze. Simply leave the beer (in the keg or bottles) in the fridge for 2-3 weeks, the chill haze will fall out of suspension. The final chill haze fix is polycar. Polycar is a plastic-based fining agent that will drop chill haze protiens out of suspension.
D. Hop Haze. Beers that are excessively dry hopped will have some haze from the haze from the hops.
Fix: Eh. Not much to worry about here. A little hop haze is acceptable in highly hopped IPAs and IIPAs.
Now once you start to put things together, good practices that will help achieve clear beer are:
A. Make sure you are mashing grains that need to be mashed. If you are doing a mash, make sure you achieve complete starch conversion.
B. Use irish moss or whirlfloc.
C. Chill your wort quickly down to pitch temps.
D. Choose a yeast strain that flocs well. British strains come to mind.
E. Leave your beer in the primary for 2-3 weeks.
F. Crash cool your beer before moving to bottling bucket or keg (if you have a fridge that can hold 5 gallons)
G. Utilize Gelatin as a fining agent.
I use most if not all of these methods on every beer I brew, and my beers generally achieve commercial-level clarity.
A. Starch haze. This is caused from steeping grains that need to be mashed, or not achieving complete conversion during the mash. Starch unfortunately never settles out, and gelatin won't clear it.
Fix: Do a mini-mash if you are steeping grains that require mashing (which are most grains other than Crystal), or if all-grain, do an iodine test to verify you have complete conversion.
B. Yeast in suspension. Yeast remaining in suspension will leave the beer cloudy, and give the beer a lighter color than expected (think hefewiezen or wit).
Fix: Use a higher flocculating yeast strain, give the beer more time in primary, cold crash the beer, or using gelatin to fine will all help.
C. Chill Haze. Chill haze proteins are proteins that precipitate at fridge temps in beer. If your beer is clear at room temp, but cloudy at fridge temps, this is the culprit.
Fix: Prevention is the best solution here. Getting a good cold break goes a long way toward preventing chill haze. Cold break are proteins that precipitate out of the wort as you chill it from boiling to pitching temps. The faster you can chill it the more cold break you'll generally see. Irish moss and/or Whirlfloc aid in this process. Cold conditioning is another method that helps fix chill haze. Simply leave the beer (in the keg or bottles) in the fridge for 2-3 weeks, the chill haze will fall out of suspension. The final chill haze fix is polycar. Polycar is a plastic-based fining agent that will drop chill haze protiens out of suspension.
D. Hop Haze. Beers that are excessively dry hopped will have some haze from the haze from the hops.
Fix: Eh. Not much to worry about here. A little hop haze is acceptable in highly hopped IPAs and IIPAs.
Now once you start to put things together, good practices that will help achieve clear beer are:
A. Make sure you are mashing grains that need to be mashed. If you are doing a mash, make sure you achieve complete starch conversion.
B. Use irish moss or whirlfloc.
C. Chill your wort quickly down to pitch temps.
D. Choose a yeast strain that flocs well. British strains come to mind.
E. Leave your beer in the primary for 2-3 weeks.
F. Crash cool your beer before moving to bottling bucket or keg (if you have a fridge that can hold 5 gallons)
G. Utilize Gelatin as a fining agent.
I use most if not all of these methods on every beer I brew, and my beers generally achieve commercial-level clarity.
I get clear beers without all kinds of additives. Chilling the wort quickly,high flocculation yeast,& patience will give you clear beers. Mine used to chill haze as soon as they cooled down in the fridge. Now,it takes overnight before it can be seen.
But the big one,besides a good brewing process,is PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PATIENCE!!!!
But the big one,besides a good brewing process,is PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PATIENCE!!!!
For my wheat beers, ideally 2-3 weeks primary then bottle condition for 2-3 weeks at room temp. Just make sure your gravity is steady before you move it to bottles or you end up with a case of potential beer grenades.
Some people prefer a little more time with wheat beers and I can not argue that, it comes down to taste, I have conditioned a wheat for 2 months that was delicious, some may say I'm drinking green beer, but at about the 5-6 week mark (from brew day) is the time when a wheat REALLY tastes good to me.
The Blood Orange Hefeweizen is a great example..
One of the things that sounds obvious but really wasn't, at least to me, is that clear wort will make clear beer. So, if the wort is not clear when you put it in the fermenter, it'll not clear easily. You can use kettle finings (I like whirlfloc) as well as chill quickly to get a good break and boil hard to make sure you get a hot break, to make the wort clear. Then if you use a flocculant yeast the beer will be clear.
Here's a picture of my favorite IPA (doily optional):
Here's a picture of my favorite IPA (doily optional):
Now that's clear-n-purty,yooper! Reminds me of my APA. Upside down snow storm aside. Did you use a camera with more than 5 megapixel?
No, it's just an old cheapie digital, I think 3 or 4 megapixels.
JKoravos
Well-Known Member
One thing that helped my clarity a lot is calcium. Calcium aids in yeast flocculation. It's more relevant for all grain brewers, but if you have really low calcium in your water it may affect extract brews as well. Add a teaspoon of gypsum to your boil. It might help.
frydogbrews
Well-Known Member
i like how you can read the word "dell" through the beer, but it's upside down. ahhhhh...science through a beer glass.
BUT.........adding gypsum to your water may cause some flavor issues. I would suggest NEVER adding gypsum unless you have a water report in front of you.
If you feel you must do something (and I doubt you would for extract beers, as malt has plenty of calcium), I'd add calcium chloride and not gypsum. That's a "can't hurt, might help" thing. Gypsum can be disasterous in high sulfate water!
Hey, it's not upside down. It's backwards. I never noticed that! How come? (Not "how come I never noticed?" but "How come it's backwards"!)
I would assume the beer/glass combo is acting like a lens and refracting the light? Been a long time since I've paid attention to physics.
I've had a pretty substantial clouding problem myself. A little gelatin cleared it right up. Irish moss helps, but not as much as gelatin in my experience.
Not refraction. That's when light changes direction when it moves into a different material.
The glass is simply a lens. Convex lens' always do that if the object is beyond the focal point.
The glass is simply a lens. Convex lens' always do that if the object is beyond the focal point.
JKoravos
Well-Known Member
CaCl2 could throw off the balance, too. I don't think there's a lot of places in the US that the sulfate levels are high enough to have a teaspoon of gypsum in 5 gal go out of whack on sulfate. Most places have quite low sulfate levels.
But, yes, having a water report in front of you would certainly be preferred.
EDIT: From a technical perspective this is the last option after attacking everything outlined above, as it's least likely to be the culprit in an extract brew. Although, putting a teaspoon of gypsum in the boil is super easy and unlikely to have a detrimental effect on the beer, so there's that...
frydogbrews
Well-Known Member
yeah, it just makes it a lens. tweaks the word even more since it is a fancy shaped glass! i think i was a little cloudy last night (damn IIPA) and thought it was upside down!
Sorry to differ, but it is refraction. The light moved from air to glass to beer to glass to air. That's how lenses work, by refraction.
You are right. I don't know what the heck I was thinking - duh. Thanks for the correction.
Gameface
Well-Known Member
I've used a plate filter a few times with varying levels of success and frustration.
Cold crashing in my fermentation chamber seems to have REALLY helped my last few batches. I also use whirlfloc when I remember to add it, and it seems to help.
Cold crashing in my fermentation chamber seems to have REALLY helped my last few batches. I also use whirlfloc when I remember to add it, and it seems to help.
BrewThruYou
Well-Known Member
I guess my issue is that my wort isn't clear. When I make an IPA, there's so much hop mass even after using a hop spider . I have a Blichmann and the diptube pulls within a fraction of an inch from the kettle bottom. I use a sanitized 5G paint strainer over my bucket fermenter, so that'll catch a decent amount of break/hop matter after it passes through the ball valve.
The only way for me to pull clear wort would be to let the wort rest in the kettle so the break and hops drop out and then siphon. It kinda defeats the purpose of the ball valve.
Even if I do that, I'll reintroduce haze when I dryhop.
I just did an IPA that I dryhopped and gelatin'ed at the same time in secondary. My last gelatin IPA was crystal clear. I'll try this new one in a few more days of conditioning.
Burgs
Well-Known Member
Fair enough - I guess I was just saying that in my experience, when I've seen an tasted underattenuated beers, they've been pretty cloudy.
I probably should blame that on yeast still in suspension rather than sugars in suspension. Thanks for the correction.
FoundlingOfDollar
Well-Known Member
BrewThruYou said:
Just to satisfy my curiosity, is there any particular reason you're not using a hop bag?
