Whats beers to start with

[jake-k]

I have been reading a alot about lambics/sours and have become intrigued. Because of my locale, these beers are not easily available to me. I will however be on vacation where I will be able to try a few of these and have no idea what's good, bad or otherwise. I'm assuming I probably don't want to jump into a crazy funky lambic and be turned off before I even have a chance to acquire a taste. My plan is to start a 3 and 5 gallon solera some day with maybe roselare, and keep a steady flow, but need a starting point to base it off of.

1.So my question is what beers in particular would you recommend starting with?

2.In your opinion, is it better to add dregs from a single beer (like) Russian river bier de Sonoma or add dregs from multiple brands of the same style?

I love a good challenge, and have very good patience, so it wouldn't bother me to wait over a year for this to mature. I have more carboys than I need so basically I would like to start a project.

Thanks for any insight, advice, criticism, or anything else you want to comment. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

 

[m00ps]

cant go wrong with a saison and just sour it after it mostly finishes fermenting

having microbe diversity is definitely the way to go IMO. You get sour character faster and it seems to have more complexity

 

[Ruckusz28]

Depending on where you're vacationing, you may be able to come upon some Jolly Pumpkin. Lots of great sours! When I first began on sours, I would brew something basic and just add different bugs to the secondary and wait, wait, wait. The waiting is the hardest part.

 

[jake-k]

Did some research, and here are a few beers available where I'm going. I'm sure I can find more, but these are available for sure.

New Holland Mischievous

Brouwerij Verhaeghe Duchess de Bourgogne

Brasserie D'Orval. Orvale trappist ale

North Coast Pranqster.

 

[Agate]

Mischievous is disappointing and pasteurized - I would skip it. Duchesse is awesome, but also pasteurized. If you're looking to pick up something for dregs, Orval is great! But it's not sour - an excellent Brett beer, though.

If you can find jolly pumpkin, it's fantastic for both drinking and using the dregs for souring. Especially oro de calabaza, it's my favorite for pitching dregs. I've soured a saison within a couple months with oro dregs, and that was with 30IBU.

If you want a foolproof sour beer for a first attempt, I would make a simple pale ale or saison with up to 30 IBU and pitch some oro dregs. You'll have an excellent sour beer on your hands.

Where are you going on your vacation? Some of the folks here might be able to point you towards some good sours to try.

 

[jake-k]

More of a holiday trip to Bismarck ND. I'm from rural Montana, so you could imagine how hard it is for me to find anything, much less a variety of craft beers. (everyone around here drinks, miller lite, bud light etc etc. Corona is stepping on a ledge for most people here. I am changing a few minds with my home brew though.) The closest lhbs is 300 miles from me so I have to plan ahead, or wait for shipping. I'm just wanting to try something different, both taste and brewing....

 

[Bassaholic]

The only beer on your list that has souring microbes is duchess de Bourgogne. New Holland is Brett trois, which has recently been discovered to be a sacch strain. And as agate mentioned Orval only has Brett, but with that and duchess you'd be off to a good start on top of roselare or some other commercial sour mix. If you acquire more sours down the road you can always pitch the dregs in as you go.

I've found that the best road to success is to give the sours time and try to open the fermenters as little as possible. My first sour was only roselare and dregs from 2 bottles of jolly pumpkin and it was quite sour after 9 months. Just do your best to resist the urge to mess with it or sample too often.

 

[jake-k]

I'm not strictly insistent on sour only, I'm just looking at something different to do. Trying to broaden my horizons, so to speak.

 

[Agate]

Yeah, to clarify my post above, duchesse does have some microbes, but it's filtered, not pasteurized like I said incorrectly above. You can get Brett and bugs, but it'll be tough. I bet you can find jolly pumpkin in ND.

 

[Agate]

^^^ go with Orval. It'll make your beer different, and likely awesome.

 

[beergolf]

I'm not strictly insistent on sour only, I'm just looking at something different to do. Trying to broaden my horizons, so to speak.

Since Orval has brett in it, it is not going to sour, but it is a good way to get into beers with brett. Just brew up a saison and add the dregs from a couple of bottles of Orval. Let it do its thing for a few months and you will be good.

i add Orval dregs to a lot of my saisons. Works great.

 

[m00ps]

Mischievous is disappointing and pasteurized - I would skip it.

I thought this too. I was pumped when I bought it since the beer store clerk knows what type of beers I enjoy. Total waste of money, ended up pouring half of it out and drinking my own brett IPA to get the taste out of my mouth

 

[jake-k]

Sampled first beer yesterday, it was a Castle Gueuze Fond Tradition. It was a pretty decent beer. A Lot of upfront sourness of citrus and a little funky on the backend. I would rate this 3.5. Looking forward to some more. Will update my tasting experience.

 

[jake-k]

Second beer was Orval. Good beer. I think this beer with a little sour would be perfect. Nice and smooth with a little funk. I've looked everywhere for jolly pumpkin, and can't find it here.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Sampled first beer yesterday, it was a Castle Gueuze Fond Tradition. It was a pretty decent beer. A Lot of upfront sourness of citrus and a little funky on the backend. I would rate this 3.5. Looking forward to some more. Will update my tasting experience.

If you've got somewhere that has the Castle/St. Louis, see if you can get Lindeman's Gueuze Cuvee Rene. It's about the same price, as easily available, and it's better than the Gueuze Fond Tradition. There are much better examples but harder to find and usually much more expensive (I've dropped $50+ on a 750 of Lambic before).

But if you liked those, you will probably enjoy the general Lambic/Gueuze styles.

If you can, get a bunch of bottles of Orval and drink them every so often to see how they mature. Orval fresh has very little funk and a decent hoppiness. Orval a few years old is a completely different monster.

Keep your eyes open for Rodenbach Grand Cru. I have an easier time getting Duchesse, but they're the same general style and I think the Rodenbach Grand Cru is better (and I'd put the regular Rodenbach and Duchesse on the same level albeit very different beers).

Another is to see if you can't find a Berliner Weisse or Gose. As they're both becoming more popular a lot of craft brewers are making them so you may be able to find something. But if they taste like parmesan or vomit then it's a poorly made example (which unfortunately there are too many of those being produced).

 

[jake-k]

Wife and I shared a bottle of Lindmans Framboise Lambic. Man what a refreshing beer. I'm not much on the fruity, however the sourness balances the sweet out nicely. Probably couldn't drink more than a couple. Pretty tasty, to bad cant harvests dregs from this.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Eh. Those things are like candy. Some folks like em, and to each their own, but the funk and acid all get lost amongst the added sugar. "Oude" on label is a good way of knowing you're getting the traditional stuff and not the backsweetened pasteurized candy stuff (especially with Castle/St. Louis and Lindemans who do offer traditional Lambic/Gueuze but not as easy to find as the backsweetened stuff). But not all of them will say that if they're the real deal (I don't recall seeing it on Cantillon bottles, then again I don't see either particularly often). Just that "Oude" I believe is legally protected and can't be on a backsweetened/pastuerized.

 

[jake-k]

I don't want to start another thread so I will ask here. I ended up getting a couple bottles of orval and oud kriek beersel. I also got a free caribou slobber extract kit. If I brew up the kit and pitch roselare with the dregs from the two beers listed, would this be on the right track to a good beer? Is there any adjustments that I need to make to the kit to make this successful or am I not even in the ballpark here? if this is not going to work, I will just brew up a Saison, but I really like the idea of a lambic/sour brown.

 

[burninator]

I don't want to start another thread so I will ask here. I ended up getting a couple bottles of orval and oud kriek beersel. I also got a free caribou slobber extract kit. If I brew up the kit and pitch roselare with the dregs from the two beers listed, would this be on the right track to a good beer? Is there any adjustments that I need to make to the kit to make this successful or am I not even in the ballpark here? if this is not going to work, I will just brew up a Saison, but I really like the idea of a lambic/sour brown.

What's the hop schedule like on that kit? That's where I'd look to make adjustments, if any. Otherwise, I'd think you could make a fine sour brown out of it.

 

[jake-k]

What's the hop schedule like on that kit? That's where I'd look to make adjustments, if any. Otherwise, I'd think you could make a fine sour brown out of it.

1 oz goldings 60
1 oz liberty 45
1 oz Willamette 15
Should put ibu at around 38

I do have an ounce of saaz that I have been aging for a month or so, I could use that instead and keep it down around 10

 

[acruz1605]

I would just make the 60 minute addition of Goldings. The later flavour and aroma additions will drop out over the aging process and only stand to inhibit lactic acid production.

 

[jake-k]

I brewed up the caribou slobber kit today. I used 1 oz of goldings 4.6% at 60 min. Pitched roselare and dregs from Orval and St. Louis fond tradition kriek lambic. I also have a bottle of St. Louis fond tradition guezze and oud beersel I will be adding at some point. Now the waiting game. Maybe it will be ready by Christmas.....