what yeast to use

[southsidebrewingco]

Hello all,

I need a little help, here's my thoughts. I want to brew an extract of what i would consider to basically be a Dunkelweizen. 3.3 lb LME Munich Wheat, 3.3 lb LME Wheat, 1oz Tettnang pellet hops. 60 minute boil (2.5 gallons). I DO NOT want to impart any clove or banana flavors because I have Blackberry puree I want to add at flame out to attempt what I would call Blackberry Dunkel. My question is what dry yeast would be best. I guess my two choices I thought of would either be us-04 or Nottingham. Anybody have any thoughts??

 

[z-bob]

What about K-97 or W34/70? (I really like K97, haven't tried 34/70 yet)

 

[southsidebrewingco]

I'm not familiar with K-97 but i am looking it up now.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I made a cranberry wheat that used S05. It turned out very well with good character from the hops, malts fruit.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

US-05 or any other clean yeast. WB06 gives a faint amount of banana and clove if you wanted to keep a hint of weizen-ness.

 

[southsidebrewingco]

I have been using us-05 quite a bit and it works well I was just looking to try something different

 

[TasunkaWitko]

If you don't want s05, then I think s04 or Nottingham would be good choices. There might be a bit more sweetness (or perception of sweetness), but with the fruit in your beer there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'd say it is a toss-up between the two...flip a coin!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I have been using us-05 quite a bit and it works well I was just looking to try something different

Then the question is, what flavours are you looking for? Or what differences to US05 do you want?

S-04 is a contentious choice. I quite like it (but much prefer the liquid versions of English yeasts) but there are many haters who have dumped batches because they don't like the esters it produces. Are you looking for an estery profile with some residual sweetness?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Either 05 or 001. Both are pretty clean, generic and neutral.

I would use 3068 if it were a "berry dunkelweizen" but it sounds like your goal is a "wheat and berry ale".

 

[southsidebrewingco]

Basically i would say mild hop bittering with a Dunkel base and Blackberry aftertones if that sounds correct.

 

[southsidebrewingco]

berry dunkleweizen is what i am going for but won't 3068 be overpowering with banana and clove?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I think he was saying that "if" you wanted the weizen character (spice, banana etc.) then that's what he would use. Since you don't want those characters, then 3068 wouldn't be the choice.

Reading what your goals are (mild hop bittering with a Dunkel base and Blackberry aftertones), I think that I would choose Nottingham over S04, just because my understanding of Nottingham is that it is a little cleaner, but still allows some good flavor from the fruit etc. I could be wrong, but that's what I'd try.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Come to think of it, I made a Buffaloberry (also known as Bullberry) Red Ale once, using Nottingham, and results were very good.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

He's saying don't call it a dunkelweizen because it's not! A dunkelweizen relies on banana and clove flavours from the ferment. What you're looking to make is a fruited American wheat beer. Also, it can't be called a 'dunkel' or 'dunkel flavour' because that would imply a dark German lager, which mustn't contain wheat! (the word 'dunkel' means 'dark' in German; a 'dunkel' beer is a 'dark German lager'.....but not 'black' - that would be 'schwarz' and 'schwarzbier' a very dark/black German lager). This will also be nowhere near dark enough to be called a dark beer.

That aside....I agree with TasunkaWitko - Nottingham is a better choice than S04 if you want a clean ferment. Just make sure you can keep ferment temperatures quite low - it's notoriously awful if fermented hot. The maltiness from the munich should blend nicely with the fruit.

 

[southsidebrewingco]

Nottingham it is then. Whats the worst that could happen it will still be beer and my cheap friends will still drink it !!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Another thing with the fruit......

I've only used fruit in beer a couple of times, so not much experience there, but I thought it was better to add it towards the end of the ferment (instead of the boil), so the flavours aren't lost during fermentation? Maybe someone with more fruit beer experience could chime in.

 

[southsidebrewingco]

Any suggestions on the fruit addition would be appreciated as this is also the first time i'm attempting to use it.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I think you will like it. It's starting to sound a lot like my cranberry wheat, where the grain bill is concerned (hops and fruit were different), and that beer had a really nice base.

@Gnomebrewer - this is a bit off the topic, and I am not disagreeing or arguing because I honestly don't know, but I had a question on the terminology for the German beers. I'm set to brew what the BJCP is calling a "Dunkels Weissbier," and it is essentially a dark hefeweizen. (I'll be using Danstar Munich Classic for the yeast). It looks like it will be a really great beer, but now you have me wondering if I am giving it the "right" name?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Regarding the fruit additions, this is what I do; I am not saying it is best, but it has worked very well, in my opinion.

In general, I use a pound of fruit per gallon (maybe a little more or less, but about that much). I add it at the end of the boil, either the last 5 minutes or less. I let it steep through the chill down, then strain it out when transferring to the fermenter. The fermentation process of course removes all the sugar and when the beer is really young it has a bit of tartness; however, in my experience the fruit flavor itself (the "essence," I guess) reasserts itself very well a few weeks after bottling. To me, it is a more honest flavor that really works well.

I haven't tried the fruit in secondary, so I have nothing to compare it to; but using it in the boil has worked very well. One of these days, I will try the secondary, for comparison.

 

[southsidebrewingco]

TasunkaWitko you are correct I wanted a good base which is where I thought the Munich would be a nice addition instead of just an American. wheat with fruit

 

[TasunkaWitko]

It depends on how much Munich and other grains you are using, but it will probably be a little too light to call it a "dunkel" - here are a couple of photos of the cranberry wheat that I made, which used Munich:

But it still definitely sounds like a great beer:

 

[southsidebrewingco]

Why did I suddenly become thirsty lol

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Christmas is coming! If you want to try that (or anyone else), shoot me a PM and I can zap the recipe over.

 

[Morrey]

One factor you may want to consider when selecting yeast is the degree of temperature control you have available during fermentation.

I like US-05/WLP001 for the neutral aspect of this strain, but Nottingham or S-04 would work for your goals. If 04 is fermented a bit high, you may get fruit esters, but heck, that may be ok too. Consider your temp controls as an important variable into the selection.

 

[Morrey]

It depends on how much Munich and other grains you are using, but it will probably be a little too light to call it a "dunkel" - here are a couple of photos of the cranberry wheat that I made, which used Munich:

But it still definitely sounds like a great beer:

Ron....your label "sells' the beer. Beautiful job.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Thank you, sir ~

 

[stodds]

I would recommend freezing the blackberries (cold helps knock back some unwanted "bugs") -- the ice crystals that form inside rupture the cell walls. Add after fermentation is mostly complete / complete or when you rack to secondary. I did this with raspberries and it worked well (they were all white by the time I racked off to the keg). I normally don't do secondary any more, but did because I needed the room for the raspberries. I had 3.3 lbs in a Helles. Flavor was there without being in your face. You should consider 3 to 5 lbs, I'd think, in a 5 gal brew.

Good luck!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

@Gnomebrewer - this is a bit off the topic, and I am not disagreeing or arguing because I honestly don't know, but I had a question on the terminology for the German beers. I'm set to brew what the BJCP is calling a "Dunkels Weissbier," and it is essentially a dark hefeweizen. (I'll be using Danstar Munich Classic for the yeast). It looks like it will be a really great beer, but now you have me wondering if I am giving it the "right" name?

The BJCP description for 'Dunkles Weissbier' says that it should have at least a moderate clove and fruit (banana) aroma, and a low to moderately strong clove and fruit flavour. It's important the the 'dark' flavours are malty and/or caramelly - not roasty (which, IME, gives an awful tasting beer). So, using Danstar Munich Classic for a 'dark' hefeweizen would be appropriate, providing the 'dark' comes from munich and/or dark wheat and/or caramel malts, rather than roasted.

As a side note (and again off topic).....I'm a bit confused by the 2015 BJCP change in name to 'dunkles weissbier' which seems to me to be a bit of a misnomer. 'Dunkle' means 'dark' and 'weiss' means 'white' (as opposed to 'weizen' which is to do with wheat). I would have thought that dunkles weizen or dunkleweizen would make more sense. But this all just from googling (I don't speak German), so I'm really just guessing.

 

[CJ-3]

I agree. My raspberry wheat uses frozen fruit in the secondary. But i puree it in a blender with some vodka.
As you have puree already I would still use it in secondary but would shoot the can and the can opener with starsan before opening.

 

[Lefou]

I have used WLP001 for blonde ale and amber Maibock. One packet worked amazingly well with my lower gravity blonde ale, but with a heavier beer you may want to give this yeast some extra vigor by making a starter. It flocculates well and if you bottle carb at the right temperature, it shouldn't leave a lot of esters behind.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

The BJCP description for 'Dunkles Weissbier' says that it should have at least a moderate clove and fruit (banana) aroma, and a low to moderately strong clove and fruit flavour. It's important the the 'dark' flavours are malty and/or caramelly - not roasty (which, IME, gives an awful tasting beer). So, using Danstar Munich Classic for a 'dark' hefeweizen would be appropriate, providing the 'dark' comes from munich and/or dark wheat and/or caramel malts, rather than roasted.

As a side note (and again off topic).....I'm a bit confused by the 2015 BJCP change in name to 'dunkles weissbier' which seems to me to be a bit of a misnomer. 'Dunkle' means 'dark' and 'weiss' means 'white' (as opposed to 'weizen' which is to do with wheat). I would have thought that dunkles weizen or dunkleweizen would make more sense. But this all just from googling (I don't speak German), so I'm really just guessing.

Thanks for the clarification, and I agree: the name does seem a bit weird. I was considering not suing that as the name until I did some looking around and came up with similar names on German beers. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that "Dunkelweizen" is a nomenclature that is used in the USA more than in Germany itself. My goal was to use a name that would be "recognizable" in Germany. without raising any eyebrows.

As for the malts - from what I can see, they point to exactly the result that you describe, so it looks as though I am on the right track.

Thanks again!