What length of time is needed for steeping grains?

[Finlandbrews]

What is your experience with steeping grains regarding the time you steep the grains? What conclusions have you found from your brewing experience?

Any rules like the more roasted the least time or the lower the temperature should be?

Is a crush of the grain needed for steeping or can non-crushed grains be steeped for better flavor profile?

Has anybody tried steeping the grains below mash temperatures? If not, why? We do it with hops for more Aromas why not with specialty grains if they have no starches to be converted?

 

[theseeker4]

What is your experience with steeping grains regarding the time you steep the grains? What conclusions have you found from your brewing experience?

Any rules like the more roasted the least time or the lower the temperature should be?

Is a crush of the grain needed for steeping or can non-crushed grains be steeped for better flavor profile?

Has anybody tried steeping the grains below mash temperatures? If not, why? We do it with hops for more Aromas why not with specialty grains if they have no starches to be converted?

You want them crushed, or at least cracked, or the husk will keep the water from getting inside and being able to dissolve the sugars.

With steeping grains, there is no conversion happening, so 15 minutes or so is plenty to dissolve the sugars.

Temperature should be as high as you can get without risking tannin extraction. The higher the temperature, the more quickly the sugars will be dissolved from the grain, and the more quickly they will diffuse into the wort. However, The relatively large amount of water per pound of grain when steeping makes it a lot easier for the pH to get to the range where tannin extraction occurs, so keeping the temperature under 170 or so F reduces the risk of tannin extraction.

 

[Nanuk-O-Dah-Nort]

....
Has anybody tried steeping the grains below mash temperatures? If not, why? We do it with hops for more Aromas why not with specialty grains if they have no starches to be converted?

You want them crushed, or at least cracked, or the husk will keep the water from getting inside and being able to dissolve the sugars.

With steeping grains, there is no conversion happening, so 15 minutes or so is plenty to dissolve the sugars.

Temperature should be as high as you can get without risking tannin extraction. The higher the temperature, the more quickly the sugars will be dissolved from the grain, and the more quickly they will diffuse into the wort. However, The relatively large amount of water per pound of grain when steeping makes it a lot easier for the pH to get to the range where tannin extraction occurs, so keeping the temperature under 170 or so F reduces the risk of tannin extraction.

perhaps I am missing something..... wasn't the OP steeping for flavour/aroma only?

if so, sugars are not relevent?

 

[Yooper]

perhaps I am missing something..... wasn't the OP steeping for flavour/aroma only?

if so, sugars are not relevent?

Well, the grains provide the color and flavor, yes, but they also have some fermentable sugars in them of course.

Steeping grains are processed so they are "premashed" so to speak- they don't need to be mashed to give up their goodness.

 

[theseeker4]

perhaps I am missing something..... wasn't the OP steeping for flavour/aroma only?

if so, sugars are not relevent?

I should have said sugars and other compounds for flavor and color. Taste a few grains of a crystal malt, it is very sweet, from sugars produced during the roasting process.

 

[Finlandbrews]

I should have said sugars and other compounds for flavor and color. Taste a few grains of a crystal malt, it is very sweet, from sugars produced during the roasting process.

It is very sweet from the pre mashing process of the grain not from roasting. Cheers

 

[Calder]

Toss them in the cold water, and remove them when the temp reaches 170 F. All you are doing is disolving sugars, and getting some flavors from the grain. 10 to 15 minutes of total exposure is fine.

Now, if there are some base grains in there and you are expecting some conversion, that is a different conversation.

Yes, the grains should be crushed.

 

[iBrewR]

It is very sweet from the pre mashing process of the grain not from roasting. Cheers

Actually, it's the heat from roasting or kilning that causes the starches to be converted into sugars. The "pre mashing" process is malting. That's when germination takes place and enzymes are developed for later conversion.

 

[ASmallBatchBrewer]

What is your experience with steeping grains regarding the time you steep the grains? What conclusions have you found from your brewing experience?

Steeping grains is similar to steeping tea.

When I started doing my own recipes, I would add the steeping grains to the pot when I started heating the water then take the grains out when temp got to around 160 F (typically 20 minutes). I started with kits, which steeped this way, so I continued steeping this way.

Recently, I brewed a batch where I steeped for 30 minutes at around 150 F to 160 F. The batch style was roughly a "brown porter". With a 30 minute steep, the chocolate malt flavors were much stronger than when I did this recipe with a "steep for 20 minutes starting with cold water" approach.

My current thought is that 1) sometimes I want to steep for color, 2) sometimes I want to steep for flavor, and 3) sometimes I need to do a partial mash.

Any rules like the more roasted the least time or the lower the temperature should be?

My guess is that I'll end up with some guidelines for 1) steeping to add color and 2) steeping to add flavor. (Note that my extract recipes generally use light DME - not amber or dark DME).

Has anybody tried steeping the grains below mash temperatures? If not, why? We do it with hops for more Aromas why not with specialty grains if they have no starches to be converted?

I haven't (yet). The idea of steeping overnight appears in a couple of homebrew books I bought. And people make "sun tea".

 

[hucklb]

per love2brew.com, 30 minutes at temps between 155 and 165. Avoid hitting 170.

 

[Yooper]

Actually, it's the heat from roasting or kilning that causes the starches to be converted into sugars. The "pre mashing" process is malting. That's when germination takes place and enzymes are developed for later conversion.

The malt is actually "stewed" before kilning so it's not the malting that is the "premashing" process- it's actually more of a mashing type of process.

In a very brief description, crystal malts are high-nitrogen malts that are wetted and roasted in a rotating drum before kilning. So, that's the "premashing" I talked about. They are already converted via this process, so can be steeped.

 

[iBrewR]

The malt is actually "stewed" before kilning so it's not the malting that is the "premashing" process- it's actually more of a mashing type of process.

I think of mashing as being synonymous with conversion. Since the conversion takes place in the kernel, I think of pre-mash for these grains as the time before the roasting process. You're using pre-mash to discribe something done by the malster before the brewer mashes, but we're saying the same thing.

It is very sweet from the pre mashing process of the grain not from roasting. Cheers

My point to Finlandbrews was that it's the "wetted and roasted in a rotating drum" that creates the sweet sugars.

 

[kh54s10]

In reference to time I have always added the grains to the water when it starts getting hot. Somewhere over 100 degrees and continue the heat for 20 minutes. I turn off the heat at 170 degrees. Getting to 170 and 20 minute usually are only a few minutes difference.

The grains need to be crushed!

 

[slym2none]

The idea of steeping overnight appears in a couple of homebrew books I bought. And people make "sun tea".

Sun tea is skunky tea. I have never had a good-tasting batch.

More on-topic, I had someone rather knowledgeable tell me that "steeping" was using water below 155°, and "mashing" used water 155° or above.

 

[ASmallBatchBrewer]

Sun tea is skunky tea. I have never had a good-tasting batch.

I'm sorry I brought up bad memories for you. I know people who make good sun tea, so I thought the analogy would help with the point that some homebrew book authors talk about different techniques to steep grains. I'll probably try some of the techniques over the next couple of months. If you check back with me later next spring, I'm willing to share what I did.

 

[Yooper]

Sure, you can cold steep. Many brewers do that with darker roasted grains hoping to avoid astringency. Or you can steep with warm water. It really doesn't matter, as no conversion is happening.

 

[slym2none]

More on-topic, I had someone rather knowledgeable tell me that "steeping" was using water below 155°, and "mashing" used water 155° or above.

I can't believe that no one commented on this.

ipe:

 

[yeastforbrains]

More on-topic, I had someone rather knowledgeable tell me that "steeping" was using water below 155°, and "mashing" used water 155° or above.

Steeping in the context of brewing, means to make an infusion or soak something in liquid (normally grain in water) at any temperature, to extract sugars, color and/or flavors. You can e.g. cold-steep ground coffee beans in your fridge over a longer period of time (days) to extract a clean, non-astringent coffee flavor to add to a coffee stout.
Mashing in the context of brewing involves a chemical process requiring a sufficient amount of specific enzymes (e.g. alpha & beta amylase) to be present in your steeping medium which also needs to be held within a certain temperature range during a certain amount of time for this chemical process to start and finish. These enzymes will not activate before brought up to a certain temperature, and will be destroyed above a certain temperature. All this said; steeping can be done with absolutely no temperature or time control, whereas mashing happens and finishes only when temperature is kept within a certain range during a certain amount of time.

 

[slym2none]

Steeping in the context of brewing, means to make an infusion or soak something in liquid (normally grain in water) at any temperature, to extract sugars, color and/or flavors. You can e.g. cold-steep ground coffee beans in your fridge over a longer period of time (days) to extract a clean, non-astringent coffee flavor to add to a coffee stout.
Mashing in the context of brewing involves a chemical process requiring a sufficient amount of specific enzymes (e.g. alpha & beta amylase) to be present in your steeping medium which also needs to be held within a certain temperature range during a certain amount of time for this chemical process to start and finish. These enzymes will not activate before brought up to a certain temperature, and will be destroyed above a certain temperature. All this said; steeping can be done with absolutely no temperature or time control, whereas mashing happens and finishes only when temperature is kept within a certain range during a certain amount of time.

Yeah, I know. That's why when a brewer told me that, I was saddened. I mean really...???