What exactly happened here? (Infection related)

[the-adjunct-hippie]

Hey, it's me, back with another infection. It's all I post about it seems (just view my history). I can't believe it happened again. I can't figure it out.

Beer was supposed to be a Peppermint Mocha Stout. I did the coffee and peppermint and chocolate a certain way because I am so wary of infections. So for those that say, "don't boil the coffee, etc" I had no choice as far as I was concerned.

Target ABV was 6.5%. I was well on my way towards that.

Oddball things I did for this batch besides the typical water, malt, hops, and yeast :

• 1/3 cup of coffee grounds and 2 peppermint tea bags in the last 30 minutes of the mash, then removed with the grain
• 1/3 cup of coffee grounds, 3 oz cocoa and 7 oz chocolate muffin mix (no milk or egg products in ingredients) blended together with water then poured in, 4 peppermint tea bags all for the last 20 minutes of the boil
• 170*F whirlpool, 4 oz of coffee, 11 oz marshmallows, 7 oz lactose, and 4 new peppermint bags, left to cool down to 65 degrees using ice and time
• removed everything but the tea bags when placed in the fermenter, so 4 peppermint tea bags that were in the 170* whirlpool went into the fermenter

Everything was bagged except for the lactose which was dumped straight in

Like hell if I was going to risk an infection by cold brewing coffee and putting it in afterwards (I know everyone in the world but me has success with adding cold brewed coffee in secondary)

Meticulous sanitization practices were taken as I'm sick of infected beers

I've read that 170 is enough to sanitize the bugs in any adjunct so I figured it was safe to add those extra things late in the boil but maybe that's what got me. However the two taste tests using sanitized basters into glasses throughout the fermentation was yielding fantastic flavor and aroma. It wasn't until tonight after I had cold crashed for 24 hours that I tasted it and it was tangy and much like strawberries. It did stall out at 1.028 when the O.G. was 1.064.

I can't begin to tell you how frustrating this is.

I'm not doing ANYTHING with fruit anymore, because...**** fruit. But it seems no matter what I do, fruit or not, unless I'm brewing an IPA, I still end up with infected beer.

Do I just burn all my equipment and start new? Is that what it's coming down to? I'm practically wearing white gloves when brewing now to prevent infections. This is horse crap.

 

[S-Met]

How are you sanitizing your baster as that is the most likely cause of a late infection?

Next brew should be a simple non-adjunct brew. This way you can limit variables and possibly tell of it is the brew or or sanitation practice.

If a simple single vessel fermentation comes out clean, you can start introducing adjuncts again. If not, go back to your equipment and sanitation process.

 

[the-adjunct-hippie]

How are you sanitizing your baster as that is the most likely cause of a late infection?

Next brew should be a simple non-adjunct brew. This way you can limit variables and possibly tell of it is the brew or or sanitation practice.

If a simple single vessel fermentation comes out clean, you can start introducing adjuncts again. If not, go back to your equipment and sanitation process.

The baster is set in an IO-Star solution for usually 15 minutes or longer.

I do have batches come out not infected but those batches do not involve a bag in the fermenter that isn't hops (so dry-hopped IPAs come out okay but nothing else bagged).

So basically I can't add anything, ever, to primary or secondary unless they are hops. That really limits me on the real flavorful beers that I like.

 

[Horseflesh]

What kind of fermenter?

Is the baster plastic or steel? FWIW I have taken many scoops from a fermenter with a sanitized steel measuring cup with no trouble.

How did you draw the poor tasting sample? Also with the baster, or some other way? What I’m getting at is, is it possible that the beer picked up an off flavor in the process of getting the last sample? Contaminated valve, tubing, etc? Did you do anything different?

I had a corroded stainless steel shank give me off flavors that were hard to figure out. The part was out of sight, out of mind, and stainless... the last place you’d look for trouble.

 

[seatazzz]

Forgive me, but I don't think you have an infection. Flavor like that (fruity, tangy) can also be the result of too young beer, or acetaldehyde. I don't see in your post how long you left it in primary, but the flavor and the FG says to me it wasn't done. If it's kegged, you have an option; place the keg somewhere warmish, and pull the PRV a few times a day to help it get rid of acetaldehyde. I would give that a shot before settling on an infection.

 

[Soulshine2]

• "170*F whirlpool, 4 oz of coffee, 11 oz marshmallows, 7 oz lactose, and 4 new peppermint bags, left to cool down to 65 degrees using ice and time"

This step is what bothers me.

Did you add/do all of these after boiling and UNDER 170*F? sounds like an infection waiting to happen
was your ice added directly to the wort to cool it off?
did you put your chiller in the boil 15 minutes to go?
How are you cooling your wort ?
how fast is your cooling process?
I've never used a lactose but I'm wondering why youre adding it ...especially to a stout? Flaked or rolled Oats ,yes.
Quite possibly the oils in the peppermint are messing up your fermentation, I'm not sure, you have a lot going on.
Personally I can't imagine any peppermint in beer but its your beer and personal taste.
Instead of adding the muffin mix why not use different malts and or vanilla bean to get the biscuity ,marshmallow and chocolate flavors your looking for , should be some searching but there would definitely be a better fermentable addition and most likely a better result .
Not knocking it ,just suggesting. I've tasted the latest craze of peanut butter stout and its not for me.

 

[the-adjunct-hippie]

What kind of fermenter?

Is the baster plastic or steel? FWIW I have taken many scoops from a fermenter with a sanitized steel measuring cup with no trouble.

How did you draw the poor tasting sample? Also with the baster, or some other way? What I’m getting at is, is it possible that the beer picked up an off flavor in the process of getting the last sample? Contaminated valve, tubing, etc? Did you do anything different?

I had a corroded stainless steel shank give me off flavors that were hard to figure out. The part was out of sight, out of mind, and stainless... the last place you’d look for trouble.

Plastic 5 gallon buckets, no blow off. The lid did pop off from pressure about 2 days into fermentation but I replaced it within a minute after I heard it. I continually "burp" (lift a corner of the lid) on my beers throughout fermentation to prevent lid blow off.

Baster is a plastic turkey baster.

Last sample was final OG measurement into hydrometer tube. I tasted the beer from my spigot after transferring to the bottling bucket and same result.

I had two other infected batches stall out at 1.028 exactly, so there may be something to that, ie, that's where infection starts.

 

[Horseflesh]

OK, based on that it does sound like it is the batch that doesn't taste how you want, and it doesn't have anything to do with how you drew the liquid. Just making sure! Best not to assume anything when running down a problem like this.

 

[the-adjunct-hippie]

• "170*F whirlpool, 4 oz of coffee, 11 oz marshmallows, 7 oz lactose, and 4 new peppermint bags, left to cool down to 65 degrees using ice and time"

This step is what bothers me.

Did you add/do all of these after boiling and UNDER 170*F? sounds like an infection waiting to happen
was your ice added directly to the wort to cool it off?
did you put your chiller in the boil 15 minutes to go?
How are you cooling your wort ?
how fast is your cooling process?
I've never used a lactose but I'm wondering why youre adding it ...especially to a stout? Flaked or rolled Oats ,yes.
Quite possibly the oils in the peppermint are messing up your fermentation, I'm not sure, you have a lot going on.
Personally I can't imagine any peppermint in beer but its your beer and personal taste.
Instead of adding the muffin mix why not use different malts and or vanilla bean to get the biscuity ,marshmallow and chocolate flavors your looking for , should be some searching but there would definitely be a better fermentable addition and most likely a better result .
Not knocking it ,just suggesting. I've tasted the latest craze of peanut butter stout and its not for me.

Ice added to wort at 150 degrees
Didn't use my chiller at the time and had to leave for work so I covered it and let it sit for 6 hours in the pot
Would peppermint extract work better than teas?
I've never gotten quite the flavor and aroma from extract that I have from natural sources

 

[Soulshine2]

ice added to 150 *F wort ... i dont think thats a good idea ,breeding ground.
then 6 hrs , theres your problem I think.