What are Late Additions, How do they Work, and What do they Do?

[GrowleyMonster]

So, I was just thinking. If some grain is not fully converted to fermentable sugars, what happens? For instance, let's say I have 15lb of malt in the mash, but at the end of the mash I add two pounds of malt just for flavor and effect. Or I add after a mash-out. Or even in the kettle before it comes to a boil but after it is too hot for conversion. Is this an accepted method for getting residual sweetness and body? I want to make a beer to accompany Mrs. Monster's Tiramisu so I am looking for a lot of cookie/pastry flavor and strong espresso notes, but with a little sweetness, without adding lactose.

 

[kevin58]

To be honest when I clicked this thread I assumed it was going to be about late addition hops. You probably are not going to get any sweetness by adding malt at mashout or higher temps. Those temps will denature the enzymes that convert starch to sugar. If you are adding dark malt you may get some color.

 

[balrog]

Anything "sweet" is likely to be fermented regardless of when it gets into the mix before the yeast sees it.
Flavor is something you can definitely add anytime, think steeping grains.
Espresso flavor is typically added post major fermentation as coffee beans "dry hop"

 

[marc1]

Some people add their dark grains at the end of the mash to get some extraction without affecting the mash pH (popularized by Gordon Strong).

Generally I don't remember seeing anyone ever recommending adding grains someplace other than the mash. Maybe a cold steep of some grains, where the resulting liquid is added to the boil, but that's about it.

Can you provide some examples of where/what you are hearing about these "late additions"? Maybe something is being misunderstood?

 

[cire]

All malt starts life the same way, by wetting the barley to sprout and convert the kernel into feed for the plant to grow. The subsequent processes determine the type of malt is produced. Base malt is dried and lightly kilned to give a little color and extra taste, leaving sufficient enzymes for conversion to sugars in the mash. Others are further kilned or stewed, providing extra color and taste, during which some conversion may take place before the enzymes are destroyed.

Added after the mash, base malts will provide starch, any of which getting through the boil and FV will produce haze in the beer. Roasted malts will add color and potentially some sugars as well as starch. Crystal Malts will add color and sugars.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

Some people add their dark grains at the end of the mash to get some extraction without affecting the mash pH (popularized by Gordon Strong).

Generally I don't remember seeing anyone ever recommending adding grains someplace other than the mash. Maybe a cold steep of some grains, where the resulting liquid is added to the boil, but that's about it.

Can you provide some examples of where/what you are hearing about these "late additions"? Maybe something is being misunderstood?

Well I have been messing with Brewer's Friend recipe calculator a lot lately and there is a check box under each addition for "late addition". And I was thinking about the steeping grains often provided with extract kits. and how creamy the kits come out compared to duplicating the kits with grain in a single mash. If this isn't a thing that is ever done by all grain brewers then I will shut up about it. I am asking, not teaching.

 

[marc1]

Well I have been messing with Brewer's Friend recipe calculator a lot lately and there is a check box under each addition for "late addition". And I was thinking about the steeping grains often provided with extract kits. and how creamy the kits come out compared to duplicating the kits with grain in a single mash. If this isn't a thing that is ever done by all grain brewers then I will shut up about it. I am asking, not teaching.

That sounds like it's for extract added at the end of the boil so that it won't darken as much.

Certainly nothing you need to shut up about - if someone doesn't like the question, they can move along to the next thread.

It's interesting that you say that extract beer is creamy, and all grain is not. Do you mean that with similar recipes, with one all-grain, and one extract with steeping grain, and similar OG and FG, same yeast, that the all grain has less mouthfeel?

We can try to troubleshoot and give some suggestions if you want.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

That sounds like it's for extract added at the end of the boil so that it won't darken as much.

Certainly nothing you need to shut up about - if someone doesn't like the question, they can move along to the next thread.

It's interesting that you say that extract beer is creamy, and all grain is not. Do you mean that with similar recipes, with one all-grain, and one extract with steeping grain, and similar OG and FG, same yeast, that the all grain has less mouthfeel?

We can try to troubleshoot and give some suggestions if you want.

Ah. That makes sense. I wasn't thinking about late addition extracts.

I didn't say that all grain isn't creamy. In fact all grain is all I brew these days. I also brewed a few batches of all extract, early on, without steeping grains. The steeping grains in the kit made a difference. I even made a batch with the exact same brand and type of LME, and the difference was noticeable even to me. The particular kit in question did have an exceptionally good mouth feel, though. Better than the couple of all grain batches I made of similar gravity and color. I tend to go for a considerably heavier and darker beer these days.

Like I said, I am here to learn. My recent batches have all exceeded my expectations. Just trying to push the boundaries a little, feeling my way. Learning new ways to gitter done and make things even better.