Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

Yakima 728
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I have used the brewferm syrup in a chimay clone and I actually didn't think it added very much flavour at all.
 
So far the brewferm syrup seems to be doing perfectly well, not that i wouldn't prefer to buy csi's products, if only to pay back for the awesome recipes on his site :D
 
paraordnance said:
I pitched 80 ml of thick yeast collected from active krausen of Belgian Blonde the week before and my Westy 10 clone finished @ 1.010 very rapidly. I had to use a heat belt to ramp the temp
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Yep, healthy krausen adds a yeast vitality that just does not come in a vial :)
 
Unfortunately it seems as if Brouwmarkt only ships to the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Germany.
 
GurraG said:
Unfortunately it seems as if Brouwmarkt only ships to the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Germany.
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How much are you looking for? I have access to CSI's syrup and could send some to you, if you would like.
 
GurraG said:
I have used the brewferm syrup in a chimay clone and I actually didn't think it added very much flavour at all.
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That is 100% correct. For 6 years we've actively brew-tested every known domestic and import candi syrup, (a really great job to have...as you can see from our recipe list).

In using adjuncts, it really depends on what you're after. If you want to raise ABV and add some color then the import candi syrups are fine. If you want something more than just added color and increased ABV then premium candi syrups are key. Adjuncts with fillers, acid-inverted potato and corn starch, (after-the-fact added dextrose), are probably ok for some but not for extraordinary ales that win awards and have neighbors asking for more months and years later :)
 
Day 7 at 1.02 and I pitched 730 billion cells for an 11 gallon batch. So much for the 7 day finish. There is still a little krousen on top and the sample cloudy, so the yeast is still working. I will leave it at 80 and rouse the yeast. Hope i dont have to Repitch again

This yeast hates me I have used just about every belgian strain from white labs and this one gives me the most trouble

I think if you don't use fresh krousen method you are asking for trouble. Next time might try pitching at 68 then getting it to mid 70s for couple days then raising it to 80 around day 5

Or might try adding the syrups in the fermentor once the yeast chews through the majority of the maltose. Then give it the easy stuff

Does anyone know if wyeast strain attenuates better
 
I've only used the white labs offering but currently have a smack pack of the wyeast offering in the fridge to use pretty soon. The last time I used WLP530 it went insane in my starter and I just pitched the entire thing at high krausen because I was having problems with blowoff. Felt it would be best to keep what I had and dumb the OG of the wort down a little to keep the yeast. I also didn't have a stir plate so I was shaking it. I just finished building a stir plate so I'll be using it soon with the wyeast version.

Oddly enough, the WLP530 finished within 7-10 days and dropped from 1.095 to 1.009. Kept it around 80 degrees. It acted like it wanted to keep going. BUT, something managed to infect it so I tossed the batch. No idea what got it, but there were pellicles. That was a level of pissed off I hadn't felt in a long time.

Don't add the syrup to the fermenter. It's best to add it at 10 min left or knockout, whichever you prefer. It won't dissolve into solution as well unless you heat it into the wort.
 
tehnick said:
I've only used the white labs offering but currently have a smack pack of the wyeast offering in the fridge to use pretty soon. The last time I used WLP530 it went insane in my starter and I just pitched the entire thing at high krausen because I was having problems with blowoff. Felt it would be best to keep what I had and dumb the OG of the wort down a little to keep the yeast. I also didn't have a stir plate so I was shaking it. I just finished building a stir plate so I'll be using it soon with the wyeast version.

Oddly enough, the WLP530 finished within 7-10 days and dropped from 1.095 to 1.009. Kept it around 80 degrees. It acted like it wanted to keep going. BUT, something managed to infect it so I tossed the batch. No idea what got it, but there were pellicles. That was a level of pissed off I hadn't felt in a long time.

Don't add the syrup to the fermenter. It's best to add it at 10 min left or knockout, whichever you prefer. It won't dissolve into solution as well unless you heat it into the wort.
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What size starter did you make with no stir plate and a 1.095 wort?

My guess is you raised the temp to 80 fairly quickly?

This is my fifth or sixth time using this yeast I always use a pitch calculator pure o2 and a gradual temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it always under attenuates

My last tripel was made with the unibrou yeast 1.080 to 1.010 in 6 days raised 65 to 75
 
The WY3787 seems slightly spicier but the vitality is about the same as WLP530 out of the pack/vial. Both brands will require the creation and harvesting of krausen at the pitch rate required in keeping with the recipe. It can be brewed without doing this but if so the vitality of the yeast will be the risk.
 
CSI said:
The WY3787 seems slightly spicier but the vitality is about the same as WLP530 out of the pack/vial. Both brands will require the creation and harvesting of krausen at the pitch rate required in keeping with the recipe. It can be brewed without doing this but if so the vitality of the yeast will be the risk.
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If I keep scrapping of the krausen from my starter and saved it in a sterilized mason jar. Probably have to step it up three or four times. How long would it keep the vitality. Could i do it over a week
 
jtp137 said:
What size starter did you make with no stir plate and a 1.095 wort?

My guess is you raised the temp to 80 fairly quickly?

This is my fifth or sixth time using this yeast I always use a pitch calculator pure o2 and a gradual temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it always under attenuates

My last tripel was made with the unibrou yeast 1.080 to 1.010 in 6 days raised 65 to 75
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Well, we will see if the Unibrou strain can finish this one off. I brewed the Westy clone about a month ago. It started a little high at 1.097 and it got stuck at 1.017. I just racked a Saison I did 2 weeks ago with the Unibrou strain so I threw the Westy clone on the cake. The gravity sample did taste pretty amazing. :mug:
 
jtp137 said:
What size starter did you make with no stir plate and a 1.095 wort?

My guess is you raised the temp to 80 fairly quickly?

This is my fifth or sixth time using this yeast I always use a pitch calculator pure o2 and a gradual temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it always under attenuates

My last tripel was made with the unibrou yeast 1.080 to 1.010 in 6 days raised 65 to 75
Click to expand...

2L starter. Pitched at 68 and it ramped up naturally and held in the room it was in. I didn't infuse o2, just shook every hour or two to move them into suspension.
 
tehnick said:
2L starter. Pitched at 68 and it ramped up naturally and held in the room it was in. I didn't infuse o2, just shook every hour or two to move them into suspension.
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Hpw quickly did it get to 80 without controlling it. Did you get any hot alcohol. Looks like you underpitched, didn't oxygenate and let the temp rise uncontrolled

I have been afraid to do that, don't want nail polish remover. The last time I had a real westy 12 it was only one month old in the bottle and i did t detect any fusel or alcohol warmth. The rocherfort 10 on the other hand is warming to my pallet, but not offensive
 
jtp137 said:
If I keep scrapping of the krausen from my starter and saved it in a sterilized mason jar. Probably have to step it up three or four times. How long would it keep the vitality. Could i do it over a week
Click to expand...

It's best within 2 days with 4 days from harvest, (at most). Krausen from a high ABV ale is generally nutrient/oxygen starved and stressed already. Brewing a pair of ales...Belgian Pale/Westy 12 for harvest-pitch back-to-back saves yeast funds and promotes a reliable fermentation. Krausen from a Westmalle Extra or a Westy 6 (Pale) is recommended.
 
jtp137 said:
Hpw quickly did it get to 80 without controlling it. Did you get any hot alcohol. Looks like you underpitched, didn't oxygenate and let the temp rise uncontrolled

I have been afraid to do that, don't want nail polish remover. The last time I had a real westy 12 it was only one month old in the bottle and i did t detect any fusel or alcohol warmth. The rocherfort 10 on the other hand is warming to my pallet, but not offensive
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I let the yeast do what they do. Turned out fine, other than it getting infected. Probably happened while I was moving to a new house. I do a lot of big beers and have yet to have cough syrup.
 
I'm gearing up to attempt this beer very soon. One of my problems is getting my hands on some US Brewer's Gold. It appears to be as rare as gold in Australia. The UK/German variety is available, albeit a much lower AA than the US version @ 4.5%.

Any recommendations? Do I just go with the UK version and adjust for bitterness accordingly?
 
There probably aren't any US hops in the real Westvleteren. You want to use Brewer's Gold or Northern Brewer from Germany.
 
orangehero said:
There probably aren't any US hops in the real Westvleteren. You want to use Brewer's Gold or Northern Brewer from Germany.
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I thought I read a post from CSI saying that Northern Brewer wasn't great because the bitterness faded after about a year.
 
hermanpeckel said:
I thought I read a post from CSI saying that Northern Brewer wasn't great because the bitterness faded after about a year.
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Brewers Gold, (Canadian) as well as Northern Brewer (British) are both grown in the Popperinge region just a few kilometers South-East of Vleteren, (South-Western Belgium). Since international trade is so rapid, proximity is not a guarantee for use. Saq used Northern Brewer in his mixed grain clone The Pious in keeping with BLAM, (I'll have to go back and check the text). We've switched back and forth a few times but Brewers Gold appears to be a superior hop on balance. Northern Brewer is still a fine bittering hop for this ale and also matches the flavor profile. In the end Brewers Gold is my favorite by far. IMHO :).
 
Thanks CSI. I'll try to get my hands on some Brewers Gold. I am just assuming the differing AA levels are due to the different origins (ie Canadian 8.5% and English 4.5%).
 
hermanpeckel said:
Thanks CSI. I'll try to get my hands on some Brewers Gold. I am just assuming the differing AA levels are due to the different origins (ie Canadian 8.5% and English 4.5%).
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Yes, very likely. I think the German grown Brewers Gold hops are the more consistent year over year. The AA's show in the mid to high 8's (8.4 - 8.9)...very similar to Northern Brewer.
 
So now I've got my hops sorted (thanks), the other thing I am concerned about is yeast. While I do have a stir plate, I don't really have the equipment (or know how) for krausen harvesting. From what I have read in this thread, this yeast is very susceptible to sticking.

Two options that I've come up with are -
1. Do a 3.8 litre, double pack starter. Chill it down, drain it off, dump it in and hope.
2. Do a starter beer. Probably a Belgian Blonde at around 5.2%ABV and dump the Westie on the yeast cake.

The downsides I can see are - 1. I may still get a stuck ferment from not enough healthy yeast, and 2. I really don't know how many viable cells would be in the yeast cake (with a distinct possibility of an over-pitch).

Any thoughts or ideas?
 
hermanpeckel said:
So now I've got my hops sorted (thanks), the other thing I am concerned about is yeast. While I do have a stir plate, I don't really have the equipment (or know how) for krausen harvesting. From what I have read in this thread, this yeast is very susceptible to sticking.

Two options that I've come up with are -
1. Do a 3.8 litre, double pack starter. Chill it down, drain it off, dump it in and hope.
2. Do a starter beer. Probably a Belgian Blonde at around 5.2%ABV and dump the Westie on the yeast cake.

The downsides I can see are - 1. I may still get a stuck ferment from not enough healthy yeast, and 2. I really don't know how many viable cells would be in the yeast cake (with a distinct possibility of an over-pitch).

Any thoughts or ideas?
Click to expand...


What do you have for temperature control
 
My temperature control (for winter) consists of a 100 litre tub of water with a big aquarium heater. It's getting cold here now and rarely gets over 23C (73F)or 20C (68F) in the cellar). I can push the water in the tub up to 30C (86F) with the heater.

I don't really have anything for temperature control for the yeast starter if that's what you were referring to.
 
I would use a pitch calculator and pitch 0.75 to 1 million cells per ml per degree plato

I made this recipe twice using a pitch calculator and slow ramp from 65 to 80 over a week. The first batch took 3 weeks to get to 1.016 then I repitched to get it to 1.012. I probably didn't need to repitch but didnt want to wait. Second batch I pitched more yeast and 12 days later its at 1.016. I will probably not repitch this one

I think the only way to get this to ferment down in 7 days is to pitch fresh krousen as described by csi. Let temp ramp fast after pitching say pitch at 65 let free rise to 80 in a couple days and hold it there until it finishes. Or pitch around 1 million cells per ml per degree plato.

Attempt three a may do the fast rise and pray I dont get paint thinner. If you use a starter make sure you pitch a lot of yeast and be patient if you plan to control the temp rise. May take a month to finish
 
I recently brewed a Westy 6 clone to build up my Westmalle yeast as CSI suggested. However I pitched my 12 on top of the yeast cake for simplicity, cleanliness, and laziness. Fermentation of the 12 was fast and furious, and ended up over attenuating but flavors seem to be there (only 1 month old).

If you deviate from CSI's recipe be prepared for a different beer, although still a damn good one.
 
DSC_0046_zpsckvcattt.jpg


Yep, great recipe! :mug:

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike
 

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