Well, Somebody's Out To Get Me...

[Evan!]

Seriously. Why me?

I brewed two wheat beers, a hefe and wit, back on March 30th. They both fermented out clean, and spent 3 weeks in primary before bottling. With both of them, I made sure to rack some trub to ensure carbonation and give me that wheat beer styyyyyul. Since I had been unimpressed with the texture of the bubbles on my prior few batches that I primed with dextrose, I decided to prime with DME. Laaglander DME.

Bad decision.

After 2 weeks, no carbonation. After 3, 4, 5 weeks, no carbonation. So, finally I just stopped opening sample bottles and decided that I needed to order some carb tabs (I came to the conclusion that it had to be the DME, since the same thing was happening with two different batches, and the only changed variable that they both had in common was the DME), which I did. Last night I finally got around to trying to open some bottles and drop in the tabs, then recapping. Now, as I said, I hadn't opened a sample bottle in about 3 weeks. So I popped the first Wit. Slight hiss. Then after a few seconds, a bunch of bubbles start screaming to the top of the bottle from the yeast cake. It starts to slowly gush over.

I recapped it without the carb tab and put it in the freezer to chill so I could drink it. I then tried another. Same deal. Then I tried a Hefe. Not a gusher, but plenty of carbonation.

So now I really am stumped. Did the laaglander just take a really, really long time? It's been 2 months. The worst part is that wheat beers are typically best when drank young. But why would some be gushing now, when they had zero carbonation through the first 5 or 6 weeks of conditioning? And what's worse, the ones that gush didn't end up very carbonated once I poured them into the glass. So, is it possible for carbonation to concentrate in the yeast cake? Is that a stupid guess?

Overall, very, very weird. I put a couple of "virgin" bottles in the fridge, which I'll try tonight. I think the lesson here is: don't use laaglander. Period.

 

[Cheesefood]

The lesson may be several things. How much did you use? How well did you mix it up? What temp did you prime it at?

Overall, bottling can be very inconsistant. That's why kegging rules.

 

[Evan!]

The lesson may be several things. How much did you use? How well did you mix it up? What temp did you prime it at?

Overall, bottling can be very inconsistant. That's why kegging rules.

Used 1.25c, standard issue, never been a problem before.
Mixed it up really well. I re-stir during bottling, about every 8-12 bottles.
Primed it at room temp, high 60's to low 70's. Upped the temp and swirled the bottles several times over the course of the past few months.

Kegging does rule. Unfortunately, it's also expensive to startup. I'd love to...right now I have 4 cornies and 1 picnic tap, but no tank or regulator. Am I correct that all I need now is a tank and regulator, and I can keg a batch? Just put the keg and tank in my lagerator, right?

 

[Orpheus]

Used 1.25c, standard issue, never been a problem before.
Mixed it up really well. I re-stir during bottling, about every 8-12 bottles.
Primed it at room temp, high 60's to low 70's. Upped the temp and swirled the bottles several times over the course of the past few months.

Kegging does rule. Unfortunately, it's also expensive to startup. I'd love to...right now I have 4 cornies and 1 picnic tap, but no tank or regulator. Am I correct that all I need now is a tank and regulator, and I can keg a batch? Just put the keg and tank in my lagerator, right?

If you've got the cornies and the picnic tap, you only need a tank, regulator, disconnects, and tubing. Check Craigslist. That's where I found my tank and regulator cheap.

 

[BierMuncher]

...I think the lesson here is: don't use laaglander. Period...

Been there done that. No Laaglanders for me.

All I can think is that there are two slow components here...wit yeast and laaglanders DME.

I've had Wit krausens that looked like they were dying down after 4-5 days, only to resurrect and go crazy again for 4-5 more days.

That slow and recurring yeast activity along with a slow to barely fermentable DME could be a bad combo.

 

[olllllo]

Time to bust out the Transmografier.

FWIW: I've seen gushers like that when a soap crystal gets into beer.
I've seen that happen in commercial beers poured at a bar.

 

[AGBrewer]

I remember reading somewhere that all dme takes much longer to ferment in bottles than dextrose.

 

[david_42]

RE: kegging You could prime a keg & get some out before it started going flat.

 

[Pedro-]

Did you boil the DME in a small amount of water first?

I just dumped some DME into a gallon jug with beer once before and it didn't ferement the least bit. Four months later I had flat beer with a malty-cardboard taste. The DME was in there alright, and nothing happened.

Problem might also lie in the yeast. You might want to pitch some california ale or other relatively neutral yeast when bottling next time just to give it a leg up.

Or you could have a small infection giving you that gusher rather than the smooth carbonation. That long in a bottle gives alot of time for a minuscule amount of bacteria to reproduce and eventually colonize. Is the beer very dry now? Is there any soapy taste? Plastic or tingy tastes?

Cheers

 

[Pedro-]

Am I correct that all I need now is a tank and regulator, and I can keg a batch?

Yeah, but if you don't have any way of getting a cylinder and regulator yet you could just prime the corny. You can buy one of the Co2 charger hand helds for $20 to start off with and just recharge once the pressure starts to drop.

Now you could also just invest that $20 into a used regulator off craigslist or your local welding supply.

Remember when you look for a cylinder that most welding supply shops utilize an exchange system. So if you plop down a couple hundred on a nice shiny beautiful cylinder, put your proud stickers on it and what not, you might have a rough time trying to get it filled without ponying up the cylinder.

Cheers

-Pete

 

[Evan!]

I remember reading somewhere that all dme takes much longer to ferment in bottles than dextrose.

Sure it does, but 2 months is much longer than I've ever seen...

Did you boil the DME in a small amount of water first?

I just dumped some DME into a gallon jug with beer once before and it didn't ferement the least bit. Four months later I had flat beer with a malty-cardboard taste. The DME was in there alright, and nothing happened.

Problem might also lie in the yeast. You might want to pitch some california ale or other relatively neutral yeast when bottling next time just to give it a leg up.

Or you could have a small infection giving you that gusher rather than the smooth carbonation. That long in a bottle gives alot of time for a minuscule amount of bacteria to reproduce and eventually colonize. Is the beer very dry now? Is there any soapy taste? Plastic or tingy tastes?

Cheers

I always boil my priming solution for 15 mins.

I also thought it might be a yeast problem...but it happened with two separate batches that were fermented with different yeast strains, and the only thing that was unique to the two batches was the DME.

Doubt I have an infection; I know what infections are like (I've had 2 before), and this stuff isn't infected.

Thanks for the input...

 

[Vermicous]

I've only brewed one hefe-wiezen. All liquid extract, but primed with DME. I have no recollection what brand. I had used a liquid yeast from a local yeast farmer.

No carbonation ever. I still have no idea what went wrong, it's been a year and none of the bottles have ever so much as fizzed. Last one to be opened was about a month ago, just to see what the bottle was doing. I thought at the time that the DME I used could have been bad, but now I am wondering if the problem was yeast related.

 

[kaptain_karma]

laaglander is relatively high in unfermentables, that might make it a bummer for bottling.

 

[cubbies]

I dont know if there is any advice I can give you on the current batch, but in the future, use Muntons. I dont have the knowledge to explain it, but over the months here at HBT, I have heard numerous people say that they have carbonation problems when using DME. I remember one guy claimed that he used 1.25 cups and barely got any carb. I use Muntons and when I use one cup, like I do on my wheats and pale ales, it is almost to the point of overcarbed. I use .75 cup on my bitters and they are carbed perfect. The only reason I can figure is the brand of DME.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

To throw my two cents in, I primed my American Wheat about 8 weeks ago with Briess DME. It is just now at the point where it is tolerably carbonated. I used 1.25 cups of the DME but am not impressed with the results. I am going to brew up a Spiced American Wheat and plan on using dextrose to prime this batch. I may try a different brand of DME to carbonate future batches, but for now I am going to stick with dextrose.

 

[Pedro-]

I think the lesson here is: don't use laaglander. Period.

I've only brewed one hefe-wiezen...primed with DME...No carbonation ever...

laaglander is relatively high in unfermentables

...use Muntons...over the months here at HBT, I have heard numerous people say that they have carbonation problems when using DME...

...I primed my American Wheat about 8 weeks ago with Briess DME. It is just now at the point where it is tolerably carbonated...

Do I smell an experiment brewing? I think I do!

 

[DeathBrewer]

i think we've pretty much resolved it. based on several testimonies, when it comes to priming with DME, laaglander and briess suck. Muntons works very well (that was what was in my franziskaner clone). i'm not ruinin any more batches, so i think i'm going to order a couple big bags of DME from muntons.