Weird infection throughout my brewery

[James86]

Hey all. I've got a strange infection that I can't get rid of. Any advice or suggestions welcome as I've dumped 6 out of the last 8 beers I've made. I'm not a new brewer by any means and I've brewed over 300 batches so I'm confident to say that my sanitation is fine.

So... What the infection looks and smells like...

I'd describe it as a sulphur smell which ranges from mild to strong and seems to get stronger the longer the beer is kegged. I've also noticed some small white clumps floating on top of the beer in fermenter. Although they don't look like mould, I initially just put it down to some yeast that hadn't flocced out yet. Another thing that I have noticed that it completely destroys any hop aroma. Also I thought that it could be yeast derived as I've used BR97 which can be a bit Sulphur like if you under oxygenate.

Process

I usually ferment in 6 gal buckets with airlock in a temp controlled chest freezer. Although at times I use 5 gal better bottles (which I feel is important later) leaving as little head space as possible and I try to keg within 10 days or so.

So you say 2 batches were fine... What was different?

The first was a kettle sour which I can hypothese that the pH played a part?

Also both beers were racked into better bottles narrowing down exposure to the environment of the chest freezer.

Steps I've put into place.

I've threw away all hoses and syphons and bought new. Fermented the last batch for 7 days in a new better bottle with minimal outside air contact.

Stripped everything and cleaned with pbw and boiled if possible.

Cleaned out the chest freezer with bleach 3x and made sure as much condensation was wiped up each day.

What I think it is.

I think I have a mould in the freezer that I can't see. Although I have cleaned it 3 times. and I can't see any other solution other than starting again and buying a new one - which obviously I don't want to do.

Any ideas?!?

 

[Amadeo38]

Not sure why something in your freezer would contribute to conditions in a sealed container, but if that’s your hypothesis why not ferment a saison at room temp outside of the freezer to see if it comes out any different?

 

[Smellyglove]

Have you taken all parts in your boiling kettle apart?

I had an infection a while ago. it was on the hot side. Ran boiling wort through the system before flameoff. Didn't help. You didn't mention boil-stuff, that's why I'm asking.

Do you use ball valves on the BK? how long since opened and cleaned? Use hoses? how do they look?

 

[Amadeo38]

OP said they replaced all hoses and boiled what was possible. I do wonder about the kegs themselves though, as I’ve heard the inside of a diptube can accumulate junk even after a good, hot PBW soak. Have you run a scrubbing device through the dip tube, boiled your keg posts and internals, or tried bottling instead of kegging?

 

[James86]

Not sure why something in your freezer would contribute to conditions in a sealed container, but if that’s your hypothesis why not ferment a saison at room temp outside of the freezer to see if it comes out any different?

The plastic fermenters are not sealed 100% you'll always get a bit of outside air ingress. Although good call on the saison. I'm going to give that a try.

Have you taken all parts in your boiling kettle apart?

I had an infection a while ago. it was on the hot side. Ran boiling wort through the system before flameoff. Didn't help. You didn't mention boil-stuff, that's why I'm asking.

Do you use ball valves on the BK? how long since opened and cleaned? Use hoses? how do they look?

I boil in a huge aluminum pot. I only have a ball o valve on my mash tun. Which I've cleaned. I forgot to mention that one of the batches that didn't get infected was a split batch.

 

[Amadeo38]

The plastic fermenters are not sealed 100% you'll always get a bit of outside air ingress.

The amount of ingress is likely so small and inconsequential that after bleaching as you’ve done, the chances of the chamber being the issue seems very slight. I suppose the saison experiment is an easy way to find out, though.

 

[tnlandsailor]

There was a guy in my homebrew club who basically brewed Belgians and Belgian variants almost exclusively. Everything had wild yeast or bacteria in it from a style standpoint and he made good beer. The problem was, when he tried to brew anything else, it tasted Belgian. After insulting him by telling him that his Kolsch had a serious problem (because it tasted Belgian which it most certainly should not), I decided to just keep quiet. However, I theorized that the tenacious bugs from his Belgian brewing had basically set up a homestead in his brewery and permeated everything. All this in saying, if "wild" brewing is part of your regimen, you might want to think about separating clean brewing from wild brewing in as many aspects as you can. No sharing fermentation vessels, no sharing yeast propagation vessels, no sharing hoses, fittings, valves or tools. I wouldn't even ferment in the same area even with a sealed vessel.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Where do you mill your grains? What did you use in the first Kettle Sour beer? It sounds like lactobacillus. Anything made of plastic I would throw away and get new. Funnels, hoses, racking cains, spoons, ect.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What faucets are you using. There are some Perlick faucets that have been proven to cause a sulfuric note in beer.

 

[tnlandsailor]

What faucets are you using. There are some Perlick faucets that have been proven to cause a sulfuric note in beer.

I have not heard of that. Can you link to something where I can read more about it?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I have not heard of that. Can you link to something where I can read more about it?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...nd-sulfur-odor-or-flavor.598607/#post-7835435

Seems to be limited to the 650SS.

 

[James86]

Where do you mill your grains? What did you use in the first Kettle Sour beer? It sounds like lactobacillus. Anything made of plastic I would throw away and get new. Funnels, hoses, racking cains, spoons, ect.

I usually get my grains milled at a local brewpub although I have milled in the same room as my chest freezer with the windows open. I know it's not best practice!

I kettle soured with fruit juice and a lacto strain. Anything that touched lacto was cleaned or thrown away.

Weirdly the Berlinner was one of the beers that was fine. Same. With a NEIPA which I split batched one being infected and the NEIPA fine.

I had a pint of Stella the weekend and it smelt 100% like the infection that I've had in my beer. Sulphur. I couldn't drink it.

 

[James86]

This is the Vienna... Been fermenting for 3 weeks.

 

[Sparkncode]

Weirdly the Berlinner was one of the beers that was fine. Same. With a NEIPA which I split batched one being infected and the NEIPA fine.

I had a pint of Stella the weekend and it smelt 100% like the infection that I've had in my beer. Sulphur. I couldn't drink it.

The split batch seams to rule out anything hot side related.

Another thought given the stella are you on any medication and had a change as there are definitly medications that can effect taste and smell.

 

[James86]

Hi all, just a quick update and a big thankyou to all that have helped me sort out the problem.

I'm 99% sure it was a fungal infection coming from one of my chest freezers. Which have been cleaned and cleaned again with acid / alc solutions. Which seems to have fixed the problem.

I have brewed a saison... Which has turned out fine, not a major fan of the style but its drinkable without any Sulphur off tastes.

I've also brewed a golden ale, 4.5Abv, 20ibu, so4, fermented at 17C to make sure which has turned out great.

I suppose what I have learned is, don't mill grains in the same room that you are going to ferment in and no matter how good you think you're sanitation is it can always be improved.

Thanks again!