Wedding beer - what went wrong?

[heckler73]

I decided to donate my 9th extract brew to a friends wedding this Saturday. She loved my first batch of Traditional Ale. Hopefully it was not a bad call...

Traditional Ale
made a 2 litre starter with 1968 3 days before. 70F pitch temp
7.25 lbs pale LME + 13 oz late addition at 15 min
4 oz carapils
0.9 oz Northern Brewer (60 min)
1 oz cascade/willamette (5 min)
OG 1.050
FG 1.008 day 12.
12 days in primary, 16 days in secondary, 37 days in bottles at 65F (room temp in Vancouver)
5 oz of priming dextrose

I just cracked one as a tester - it's really flat and sweet. I've gently shaken and put them into the bathroom and cranked the furnace to 72F, but I only have 4 days of waiting available.

The beer is very clear, likely due to the long wait time in the fermenters. Was that my mistake? My first batch was perfect at 7 days primary, 14 days secondary and 21 in bottles. Very few particles on the bottom of the bottles, and what's there are quite large chunks.

When do I breakdown and buy the bride a few cases of Molson?


Don't offer to brew for a wedding.

Suggestions? No, I don't have other batches in stock that are ready to serve.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Well, first off, if the bride's your friend you may want to reconsider buying her Molson. She might not be your friend anymore after that.
Second off, a few weeks in the fermenter wasn't your issue. In fact, it was a better choice than the 1-2-3 method you say you've used in the past. FWIW, you don't need to secondary a brew like that, 2-3 weeks in primary is just fine.
Did you dissolve the priming sugar in water before adding it? If not, some of those bottles may explode due to the sugar not being mixed evenly. The sweetness suggests that the priming sugar IS mixed in and not fermenting. 65 for 5 weeks might not be long enough to carb them fully, but they should definitely have some co2 at this point. Are you sure of the temps? Were they on the cold floor, or near a drafty window in a 65 degree room, or were the bottles themselves 65 degrees? IME, liquid will be ~3 or so degrees less than the ambient air around it. Lastly, did you add anything to the beer, or priming solution that may have knocked your yeast out? Sorry for all the questions, but it's very odd that you have zero co2 in the situation you describe.

 

[heckler73]

yup, I mixed 5 oz dextrose with 1-1/3 cup of boiled water, and stirred well into the bottling bucket, same as every batch. They do have a tad of carbonation, and I'll bet a few more summer weeks and they'll be good to go, but I only have 4 days. The first bottle was really cold after a night in my beer fridge and it was flat, and my second bottle was room temp and also quite flat with a few small bubbles.

They were on a wooden floor next to an inside wall with no windows, boxed up and covered in a towel. No, I don't know the actual temperature, just guessing. My thermostat hovers 63-70 in the last month.

Come to think of it, this is the only batch I kept in the living room instead of my upstairs bedroom closet, for fear of accidentally cracking open the wedding beer.

And I was kidding about the molsons. I'll have to suck it up and buy something in recappable bottles.

The two warm ones I opened had a hairline cracked around the glass neck, but not a huge amount of fizz when I broke the top off with the cap. It might have been my capper - I've busted a couple during bottling.

 

[heckler73]

I didn't measure my real FG at day 28 when I bottled.

 

[JDFlow]

The two warm ones I opened had a hairline cracked around the glass neck, but not a huge amount of fizz when I broke the top off with the cap.

I'm still pretty green, but couldn't this be your problem? If the CO2 isn't in an airtight environment it would just escape the bottles instead of being forced into solution, right?

 

[heckler73]

I'm hoping that's the issue with the second bottle, but it doesn't explain the first sweet one. Will wait one more day at 72F and then open another.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I'm still pretty green, but couldn't this be your problem? If the CO2 isn't in an airtight environment it would just escape the bottles instead of being forced into solution, right?

I thought that too. Definitely would explain why there's no fizz, it all leaked out.

Also, if some of them have some carbonation, it could just be a time thing. You said yourself, first time conditioning in that room. Now, with only 4 (3) days, even if they were carbed, you'd need to have them in the fridge for those few day to let the co2 dissolve into solution. Once the beer's carbed, 3-4 days in the fridge is needed to let the co2 dissolve better.
See what ya can do, get 'em warm if you can. I talked with a brewer at a brewery out west (Grand Teton), and she told me they bottle condition in a 'warm room', about 80 degrees, to speed the process. She said it's about a ten day process, and it's been working well for them. I'm not saying you should always bottle condition at those temps, but maybe see if getting the brews warm for a few days helps.
Either way, even if you can't serve the beer at the wedding (which sucks), you could give your friend a very nice gift made especially for her special day.

 

[brewit2it]

Well, first off, if the bride's your friend you may want to reconsider buying her Molson. She might not be your friend anymore after that.
Second off, a few weeks in the fermenter wasn't your issue. In fact, it was a better choice than the 1-2-3 method you say you've used in the past. FWIW, you don't need to secondary a brew like that, 2-3 weeks in primary is just fine.
Did you dissolve the priming sugar in water before adding it? If not, some of those bottles may explode due to the sugar not being mixed evenly. The sweetness suggests that the priming sugar IS mixed in and not fermenting. 65 for 5 weeks might not be long enough to carb them fully, but they should definitely have some co2 at this point. Are you sure of the temps? Were they on the cold floor, or near a drafty window in a 65 degree room, or were the bottles themselves 65 degrees? IME, liquid will be ~3 or so degrees less than the ambient air around it. Lastly, did you add anything to the beer, or priming solution that may have knocked your yeast out? Sorry for all the questions, but it's very odd that you have zero co2 in the situation you describe.

Congratulations, you just invented a perpetual motion machine. Sorry, couldn't resist Solid, liquid, gas, space junk, all will take on ambient temperature. The density of the liquid will cause it to change temp slower than the air around it but it will most certainly take on average ambient temperature. Basic physics mandate it.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Solid, liquid, gas, space junk, all will take on ambient temperature. The density of the liquid will cause it to change temp slower than the air around it but it will most certainly take on average ambient temperature.

Tell that to my swamp coolers that sit ~3 degrees below the temperature of the air next to them. I understand the physics of the whole operation, but i'd say with the slow temp change, the liquid remains a bit cooler than the avg ambient temp. No physics, per se, to back this up, just good ol' fashioned brewing experience.

 

[brewit2it]

Tell that to my swamp coolers that sit ~3 degrees below the temperature of the air next to them. I understand the physics of the whole operation, but i'd say with the slow temp change, the liquid remains a bit cooler than the avg ambient temp. No physics, per se, to back this up, just good ol' fashioned brewing experience.

You are talking about 2 separate systems. In a swamp cooler you are using evaporation to take energy out of the system which is how it cools.

But there is nothing magic about liquid itself that allows it to somehow stay below its ambient temperature. Look at the first law of thermodynamics if you want to read about it, but you can take my word for it, conservation of energy must be maintained in a system and the beer will absolutely take on average ambient temperature.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

But there is nothing magic about liquid itself that allows it to somehow stay below its ambient temperature. Look at the first law of thermodynamics if you want to read about it, but you can take my word for it, conservation of energy must be maintained in a system and the beer will absolutely take on average ambient temperature.

Oh, I know. It's not anything magic, evap causes liquid to cool, simple as that. I wasn't trying to debate anything. And you are right, without evaporation the liquid will surely take on the avg ambient temp of it's surroundings.

 

[brewit2it]

Oh, I know. It's not anything magic, evap causes liquid to cool, simple as that. I wasn't trying to debate anything. And you are right, without evaporation the liquid will surely take on the avg ambient temp of it's surroundings.

Same here, not trying to be argumentative .

It's a little weird that the OP's beers are flat. I think you guys who suggested caps aren't sealed are probably on the right track. Like he said though, it doesn't explain the sweet one still.

Either way, it sounds like time is pretty much up. Probably best to tell your friend that you aren't happy with how the batch came out (at least up to this point) so you are generously going to buy some beer for the wedding instead.

 

[solbes]

Did any of these get refridged? If not, much of the CO2 will still be in the headspace. You need to chill the beer for at least 36 hours to get most ofthe CO2 to go into suspension.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Same here, not trying to be argumentative .

Did any of these get refridged? If not, much of the CO2 will still be in the headspace. You need to chill the beer for at least 36 hours to get most ofthe CO2 to go into suspension.

I got the impression that he didn't let them sit in the fridge very long. There seems to be a few different factors that could be or are causing this; maybe a bit too cool, some of the bottle necks cracked at bottling, maybe the caps aren't seated (his capper sounds like it's screwy), and possibly not long enough in the fridge. Could be any, or all of those.

 

[heckler73]

they'll be going into the fridge tonight after sitting in the warm bathroom for a day. Thanks for the advice guys.

Decision to buy new will be made Saturday morning. No pressure. At least there's lots of beer stores out there.

 

[daksin]

I would only put one or two in the fridge, preferably from different boxes/places in the bottling day. If they still need conditioning time, cooling them off is just going to extend it. I would say let them condition as warm as you can manage, and then toss them in the fridge Friday night. That's about the best you can do. Also, make sure you know of a place that will be open (100% sure) on Saturday morning and selling alcohol. I know this can be an issue in parts of the US, no idea if there's anything like that in Canada. But for sure, call up a store you want to buy from, talk to the MANAGER, and make them tell you that they'll be open when you want to be there and selling beer.

 

[heckler73]

luckily we're in the land of plenty when it comes to cold beer and wine stores. thanks though!

 

[E-Mursed]

Buy a bench capper.....

 

[heckler73]

I will definitely buy a bench capper. I've found 4 cracked bottles in this batch, all of them flat with minor carbonation. I've got an uncracked one in the fridge for testing tomorrow.

 

[iambeer]

I've got an uncracked one in the fridge for testing tomorrow.

Nice... I'm testing a few beers meself...

 

[solbes]

How'd it go? Hoping it carb'd up for you.

 

[heckler73]

surprisingly enough, it did carb up after 2 days in a heated bathroom and 2 days in a fridge that wasnt' set very cold. I had several "great beer" comments, and a couple of people that recognized it was still young beer. All in all, it went well, and I have 7 litres of commercial microbrew I bought that weren't needed.

I think the micro-cracked bottles that were my testers were the biggest problem. I'm buying a bench capper next time I'm at the brew store.