Way too high mash temp...thoughts?

[Yambor44]

I just received a new BIAB grain basket and wanted to give it a try. I wasn't sure how many gallons of strike water I could add with my 22 pounds of grain in the basket.

I heated 8 gallons of water to 185º and transferred to a cooler for sparging. I kettle with the 5 gallons strike water. I started adding the grains and about 2/3 thru I could tell I was going to need some more water.

This is where the brain freeze started. I started transferring water from the cooler to see how much water it would hold with the grain (yes THAT water in THAT cooler). It took another 4 gallons of water. Total now 11 if you're keeping track.

Also at this time I realized I forgot to turn my element off. My temp probe for the element is inline at the pump exit so it doesn't read the temp inside the kettle. I had to move it to accommodate the new BIAB basket. When I looked at the temp display after adding the 4 gallons of 185º water (yeah, THAT water from THAT cooler) it was reading 137º which meant the PID was trying to bring the water and grain to 155º. I shut the element off.

I then started the recirculation for the mash and the temp on the display started to climb (expectedly) and stopped at 184º. I went ahead with the mash. Recirculated and left the lid as open as I could get it. The temp slowly dropped and ended up at 154º at the end of a 75 minute mash.

It was at or above 165º for about 75% of the mash. I am getting ready to just toss it but thought I'd post up and see what others thought.

I don't feel like wasting 2 packs of yeast, 8 ounces of hops and another 2+ hours of boiling and chilling on what I assume to be a non fermentable batch of beer.

I thought about adding some sugar to the boil but not sure that would help.

If nothing else I know how much strike water I can start out with on a 10 gallon batch with 22 pounds of grain!

Any thoughts?

 

[Oginme]

Taste the wort. Is it sweet? If it is, then go ahead and finish it. While it may not match what you intended, consider it a learning experience. If it does not taste sweet at all, then save your yeast and time for the next batch.

 

[hvjackson]

So the critical piece of information is how long the mash was in the 150ºs *before* going over 170º. Once the mash has reached 170º for a non-trivial amount of time, many of the enzymes will be permanently denatured.

10 or 15 minutes in the 150 ºs is probably enough to get a large portion of starch converted, so if the ramp up to the peak temp was slow you are probably OK. Most commercial breweries only mash for about 15 minutes. If you think the period in the 50s was relatively short, there may not have been enough time.

If you have supplies to do an iodine test, that would tell you whether the starch has converted. But it sounds like you're brewing right now so that may or may not be viable.

 

[Yambor44]

The wort doesn't taste overly sweet. Just a hint.

I checked the gravity on a ATC refractometer (calibrated) and the prevail is 1.032.

HV, the wort pretty much started at 184º then slowly crept down. It was only in the 150's for about the last 15 mins which is why I kept going past my usual 60 min mash.

 

[Yambor44]

Looks converted.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Well at least you know it's at least mostly converted, what was the expected OG btw?

You may end way high of your FG though due to the high mash, beta probably denatured pretty quickly if you were that high. You may also have issues with tannins if mash temp actually exceeded 175.

I'd probably pitch some slurry if I had some, but I wouldn't waste fresh yeast on it.

 

[Yambor44]

Would adding some sugar help at all on the attenuation?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I'd probably just leave it alone and see what happens. You could use blend it with another batch down the road if you find one that's fermented out low.

 

[Yambor44]

10-4. I'm about 20 mins in on the boil now. Might as well I guess!

 

[Yambor44]

Just happen to have some slurry from the batch I was duplicating tonight. I'll use this.

 

[Yambor44]

Ended up at 1.055 OG. Target at 75% was 1.061

Normally US-05 always attenuates in my brews down to 1.010. I am targeting 1.015 and will be VERY happy if I hit that. I'll update in 2 weeks before my dry hop with the FG.

7 Seas Rides Again
21-A American IPA
Author: Rob
Date: 10/17/15

Size: 10.5*gal
Efficiency: 68.0%
Attenuation: 73.0%
Calories: 184.13*kcal per 12.0*fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.055 (1.056 - 1.070)
Terminal Gravity: 1.015 (1.008 - 1.014)
Color: 11.59*SRM (6.0 - 14.0)
Alcohol: 5.28% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 52.3 (40.0 - 70.0)

Ingredients:
22*lb (91.7%) Pale Ale Malt - added during mash
1*lb (4.2%) Crystal Malt 60°L - added during mash
1*lb (4.2%) Cara-Pils® Malt - added during mash
2*oz (16.7%) 7 C's Blend (9.9%) - added first wort
2*oz (16.7%) 7 C's Blend (9.9%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
2*oz (16.7%) 7 C's Blend (9.9%) - added during boil, boiled 15*m
2*oz (16.7%) 7 C's Blend (9.9%) - added during boil
4*oz (33.3%) 7 C's Blend (9.9%) - added dry to primary fermenter



Results generated by BeerTools Pro 2.0.12

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I'm not sure where your temp probe is but if its under the grain and inside the area of the element its probably false readings, the mash its self could be fine, if you had a portable temp probe you could check the grain bed, Ill bet it as much lower than you thought

 

[Yambor44]

I'm not sure where your temp probe is but if its under the grain and inside the area of the element its probably false readings, the mash its self could be fine, if you had a portable temp probe you could check the grain bed, Ill bet it as much lower than you thought

My temp probe was inline at the output of the pump. I checked it with a calibrated MK4 Thermopen during the chill and the reading on the PID (temp probe) was exactly the same as the Thermopen checked inside the kettle.

I'm assuming I'll see the screw up come to life on the FG. If this turns out good, I have no idea why!

I'm glad I posted and went ahead with the brew though as I am very curious how this will turn out.

I ended up shooting each 5 gallon fermenter with 10 seconds of oxygen before pitching one cup of slurry in each as well.

 

[Yambor44]

Just before putting them to bed.

 

[TexasWine]

Something to read while you watch you're beer ferment. I'd encourage you to share your results with the Brulosophy team.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/12/the-mash-high-vs-low-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

 

[wilserbrewer]

For future reference, adding a handful or two of ice cubes works well to arrest a mash gone wild on the high side.

Interesting read....when things go awry, sometimes it happens in pairs. When two or more unsuspected things happen at once....oh ____!!!

A couple more of these accidents, and we will likely get a federal regulatory commission for automated brew rigs

 

[Yambor44]

Today is day 12. I have fermented at 70-72 ambient temp (which is where I always ferment with Safale US-05). As expected FG reading is stuck at 1.022. Wort is sweet but drinkable. I am waiting on a new plastic bottle fermenter so I can secondary this batch and dry hop.

I will post this is the other thread here but every time I use a slurry or washed yeast from US-05 I get a Hefe aroma and taste. No different this time. I'm not a huge Hefe fan so I am hoping a secondary and maybe a larger than normal dry hop will help with this.

Thoughts?

 

[Yambor44]

Today is day 22. Just finished begging out of the secondary. Here aroma gone. Slight (maybe) taste of here in sample but probably just the hops. Beer finished at 1.016 which came out to 70% attenuation according to Beer Tools Pro. Efficiency was 71% with an ABV of 5.05%. All in all I am glad I went thru with it as I feel the beer is going to be great once carbonated. Thanks for the feedback.