Water Sample for Water Test

[wsmith1625]

I just ordered the water test kit from Ward Laboratories and had a question about the water sample. I always filter my brew water so it seems to make sense that I submit a sample that has been filtered. Is the correct or is it better to submit unfiltered water? I always use the same filter so the results should be somewhat consistent.

Also, anyone ordering a test from Ward Laboratories, I paid $42.00 for the test kit. I though that I read a lot of threads that it's actually much cheaper than that, but I assumed they were old threads and the prices went up. Well the W-501 Brewers Test is still $27.25 if you provide your own sample bottle, packaging, and shipping costs. The kit which I purchased includes everything, even shipping. I guess I could have save a few dollars, but shipping can get pricey. No worries on this end. Just putting it out there so others know there is an option and you don't need to purchase the kit.

 

[Yooper]

I know the price has gone up, but when I did it I did the "household minerals test" and it had everything needed. Of course, it was under $20 back then............

Still, it's worth it. My biggest problem is alkalinity, so I also bought a little aquarum gH/kH test for about $6 and I use it every so often to check and make sure my RO system is still working.

I'd send the water you intend to use, so that you know the results.

 

[1HW]

It's six of one, half dozen of the other. If you want to know what your water is from the tap, send that sample. That said, municipal water samples can vary from season to season, so you're really only getting a snapshot in time of what your water profile is like.

If you send filtered water, you'll perhaps more closely know what is going into your kettle, but that profile may also change across the life of your filter (so be sure to replace it according to schedule).

What kind of filtering are you doing?

 

[wsmith1625]

I use the filtered water from my Samsung fridge. It takes a while to collect 8 gallons, but I feel the water is better than straight from the tap. The filter removes chlorine among other things, but I've also been adding 1/2 a campden table to my water for good measure. All my beers have been good, but I want to get the water report so I can make adjustments for different styles.

 

[VikeMan]

Is the correct or is it better to submit unfiltered water? I always use the same filter so the results should be somewhat consistent.

Always submit the water you intend to use, including treating with campden if that's part of your normal process.

 

[wsmith1625]

Will do. Thanks.

 

[mabrungard]

RO water quality is better checked with a TDS meter. No need to use a alkalinity test.

Regarding filtered vs unfiltered, if its a carbon filter, it doesn’t matter. A carbon filter does not remove any ionic content that we brewers are concerned with. Only a RO filter can do that.

 

[Yooper]

RO water quality is better checked with a TDS meter. No need to use a alkalinity test.

Regarding filtered vs unfiltered, if its a carbon filter, it doesn’t matter. A carbon filter does not remove any ionic content that we brewers are concerned with. Only a RO filter can do that.

Yes, but I don't happen to have a TDS meter; but I do have an aquarium.

I don't have any issues with my water profile except for the high alkalinity, so if the alkalinity is under 17 ppm I know I'm in good shape with the RO filter.

 

[Harleybrew32]

getting ready to send a sample into Ward Labs soon myself.
you paid for the test bottles and packaging, I emailed them and they said i can just use an empty water bottle rinsed out, fill it with my water and send it in. I plan to pull the sample in the morning and ship it out that day.

 

[IslandLizard]

I use the filtered water from my Samsung fridge. It takes a while to collect 8 gallons

Yowsa!
I hope you're using cheap generic $5-10 cartridges. Otherwise, at >$35 a pop every few months you'd be much better off buying an RO setup. You'd start saving money well within a year, and have all the RO water you'd ever need.

 

[mabrungard]

Yes, but I don't happen to have a TDS meter; but I do have an aquarium.

Fair enough. But a TDS meter can be had for around $20 and it’s result is almost always more precise than the typical aquarium alkalinity test kit. Especially when the meter is used as a relative measure.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Fair enough. But a TDS meter can be had for around $20 and it’s result is almost always more precise than the typical aquarium alkalinity test kit. Especially when the meter is used as a relative measure.

For my abysmal well water the scorecard turned out to be:

TDS = 856 ppm by my meter and 905 ppm via the meter of the company that installed our RO unit
TDS = 712 per Ward Labs

Alkalinity = 436 ppm via an API aquarium test kit (GH/KH)
Alkalinity = 377 ppm per Ward Labs

Total Hardness = 758 ppm per an API aquarium test kit (GH/KH)
Total Hardness = 644 ppm per Ward Labs

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Yes, but I don't happen to have a TDS meter; but I do have an aquarium.

I don't have any issues with my water profile except for the high alkalinity, so if the alkalinity is under 17 ppm I know I'm in good shape with the RO filter.

We always say that to operate an RO system, at a minimum, you'll want two tools. One is a pressure gauge that reads after the prefilters, and the other is a TDS meter.

Inline TDS meters are more convenient. A two probe meter (the DM1 or DM2) is what you'd want for an RO system. TDS Meters | TDS Water Meter | In-Line TDS Meter - Buckeye Hydro

Handheld meters also work. Digital Water Meter | Digital Electronic Meter | Handheld - Buckeye Hydro

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

For my abysmal well water the scorecard turned out to be:

TDS = 856 ppm by my meter and 905 ppm via the meter of the company that installed our RO unit
TDS = 712 per Ward Labs

Alkalinity = 436 ppm via an API aquarium test kit (GH/KH)
Alkalinity = 377 ppm per Ward Labs

Total Hardness = 758 ppm per an API aquarium test kit (GH/KH)
Total Hardness = 644 ppm per Ward Labs

Sweet mother of pearl! If you don't already have one, you badly need a whole-house water softener. That water will destroy your water heater, dishwasher, and RO membrane. Do you also have high iron, or manganese, or hydrogen sulfide?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Sweet mother of pearl! If you don't already have one, you badly need a whole-house water softener. That water will destroy your water heater, dishwasher, and RO membrane. Do you also have high iron, or manganese, or hydrogen sulfide?

My water passes through an oxidizer and then through a softener. And lastly, for drinking water, it passes through an RO unit.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Do you have a sediment filter after the oxidizer? Does the oxidizer inject chlorine? Pot perm? Does the oxidizer contain a backwashing media tank containing something like greensand?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Sweet mother of pearl! If you don't already have one, you badly need a whole-house water softener. That water will destroy your water heater, dishwasher, and RO membrane. Do you also have high iron, or manganese, or hydrogen sulfide?

Per Ward Labs, iron is 0.4 ppm and manganese is 0.03 ppm. There is also some HS odor in our well water.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Do you have a sediment filter after the oxidizer? Does the oxidizer inject chlorine? Pot perm? Does the oxidizer contain a backwashing media tank containing something like greensand?

I don't know how the oxidizer functions but it backflushes at least daily. There is no sediment filter. The guy who installed the oxidizer removed it, stating that with the oxidizer it was now unnecessary.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Per Ward Labs, iron is 0.4 ppm and manganese is 0.03 ppm. There is also some HS odor in our well water.

Yep - you definitely need that oxidizer.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I don't know how the oxidizer functions but it backflushes at least daily. There is no sediment filter. The guy who installed the oxidizer removed it, stating that with the oxidizer it was now unnecessary.

The media in that tank is trapping the material that is forced out of solution by the oxidizer. When it backwashes, that trapped material is sent down the drain. Are you injecting an oxidizer ahead of the media tank? Or using a media like Filox that does not always require the injection of an oxidizer?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The media in that tank is trapping the material that is forced out of solution by the oxidizer. When it backwashes, that trapped material is sent down the drain. Are you injecting an oxidizer ahead of the media tank? Or using a media like Filox that does not always require the injection of an oxidizer?

I believe it to be Filox-R, but I would need to check with 'Clearwater Systems' (the installer) to be sure. The backflush is quite aggressive to put it mildly.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

That makes sense. In some instances, Filox does not require the injection of an oxidizer. It is a very heavy media and does require and high flows during backwash in order to lift the entire media bed and tumble it to get it to release all the material it has pulled out of solution.

 

[wsmith1625]

Yowsa!
I hope you're using cheap generic $5-10 cartridges. Otherwise, at >$35 a pop every few months you'd be much better off buying an RO setup.

Yeah, I pay about $30-35 a pop for the Samsung branded filters, but they last a long time. They're rated for 6 months or 300 gallons which works out to 10 cents a gallon. I'm happy to pay that. Also, I think I get more life out of them than what they're rated for

 

[wsmith1625]

A carbon filter does not remove any ionic content that we brewers are concerned with. Only a RO filter can do that.

Some carbon filters actually add ionic content to enhance flavor.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also, I think I get more life out of them than what they're rated for

Our municipal water is low in Chlorine most of the time, I can go without a carbon filter. They didn't supply a dummy cart with the fridge (they should), or I would be using that instead. So yeah, I got 10 years out of the first and only cart so far, still counting, happily. The Samsung fridge itself is a different story... I finally may have fixed it, Running 2 months good so far, the next 2-4 months will prove if the fix is really working.

Our water is rather soft, I brew with it as is,* and therefore I've been on the fence of putting in a small RO system. I still may.

* I do use a pinch of K-Meta to remove the chlorine, of course.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

$35 for 300 gallons, or $0.12 per gallon for the samsung.

Compare that to our two most popular carbon blocks:
*The Workman 5 mic carbon block: $8.25 for 6,000 gallons @ 0.75 gpm, or $0.001 per gallon
*The Chlorine Grabber 0.5 mic block: $11.49 for 20,000 gals @ 0.75 gpm, or $0.0006 per gallon

Bottom line: refrig filters are very expensive, have very limited flow capabilities, and very limited capacity to remove chlorine.

Russ

 

[mabrungard]

Bottom line: refrig filters are very expensive, have very limited flow capabilities, and very limited capacity to remove chlorine.

Exactly!! Avoid proprietary or undersized filters at all costs. You will always be better off with standard equipment recommended by reputable dealers.

 

[Brian66]

I will be doing the ward test and had the same question - tap vs filtered. It can take awhile to get enough filtered water for brewing so I'm thinking of sending in tap water since that is easier to fill my kettle.

Anyone think I should send in filtered to the lab and deal with the longer time to fill my kettle? If so, why?

 

[wsmith1625]

As @VikeMan suggested, send in the water you plan on brewing with. In my case, I sent in filtered water.

 

[IslandLizard]

I will be doing the ward test and had the same question - tap vs filtered. It can take awhile to get enough filtered water for brewing so I'm thinking of sending in tap water since that is easier to fill my kettle.

Anyone think I should send in filtered to the lab and deal with the longer time to fill my kettle? If so, why?

Please mind, a Ward test is only a single snapshot. Your water may change next week, next month, next season. So timing on when to take and send it is relatively important.

Say, your water is heavily dependent on surface water (rivers, reservoirs), its composition will be different from nominal after a big rainstorm or during droughts.

If your water supply is always from the same stable sources (e.g. deep municipal wells), then yeah, do it once and you're set for the next few years. But if it fluctuates wildly, that report will be obsolete quickly.

In some (many?) NJ communities the water report from your water utility is available online. Not just the EPA mandated report on poisons, often it may include the mineral composition as well, including the ones we brewers interested in. If not, you can call them and ask to talk to someone in Quality Control. They should be able to give you the ppm amounts, and tell you where the water is sourced from and if and how much it fluctuates, such as with the seasons, or due to Spring runoff from salted roads, for example.

It's also good to use a TDS meter (they're fairly cheap, ~$20) to monitor changes in TDS. If it's low and stable over long periods, chances are not much has changed.

 

[Brian66]

Thanks. I've talked to the town and our water supply is municipal wells. I have the water report but it's just the EPA mandated report as you say. I couldn't find anything online. At this point I've already ordered the ward kit.

I understand to send in the water I plan to use. I'm debating if I'll switch to tap water instead of using filtered water - figuring I can adjust the tap water based on the analysis and it'll be easier to fill the kettle. Not sure if that's a good/OK idea or to stick with the filtered.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

The report you were provided is called a Consumer Confidence Report.

The labs at water utilities also test for about 4 zillion other attributes, but don't include those data in the CCR. They will typically email those data to you if you talk to someone in the lab.

Russ