Water PH

[mackenziemicro]

Hi All doing my first all grain on Saturday, moving on from PM using a cooler with SS braid. Most of my PM batches have turned out good the only issue is chill haze even with batches that I've used gelatin on and cold crash, always get good hot n cold break. So I reckon the only thing left is water PH... Do you agree? I've got some PH 5.2 and am getting some PH strips I use bottled spring water.... Do I adjust Mash and Sparge water or just Mash water? Also I'm assuming I adjust before mashing in ?
Thanks in advance...


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[ajdelange]

Water pH has very little to do with mash pH. What is important is the water's alkalinity.

You couldn't pick two better products on which to waste money than 5.2 and pH strips. Neither does what it is supposed to do.

There are hundreds and hundreds of posts on HBT that deal with all three of these matters.

 

[dudius]

Water pH has very little to do with mash pH. What is important is the water's alkalinity.

You couldn't pick two better products on which to waste money than 5.2 and pH strips. Neither does what it is supposed to do.

There are hundreds and hundreds of posts on HBT that deal with all three of these matters.

I've used both and have no problem with them.

The way I see it, if you're using fining agents during the boil then the only thing you can do to further clarify your beer without a filter would be to make sure your beer is good and cold before racking. Calcium could maybe help clarify your beer, and it could be worth adding some, but for now I'm out of ideas.

 

[BobBailey]

I use RO water and adjust the PH of strike water to 5.5 with Phosphoric acid(10% solution). It takes 1 drop/qt. on average. I add Calcium chloride and/or gypsum to the mash for the needed calcium. 1 1/4 tsp. total for a 6 gallon batch.
I have found that these adjustments really help the break material coagulate and drop out fast and have also made a noticeable improvement in the end product.

I would definitely invest in a PH meter, as the strips are nearly useless.

 

[Calichusetts]

Calcium helps with clarity so consider gypsum for hoppy beers of calcium cholride for malt-based ones. I find mash pHs around or above 5.5 get me the clearest beer, no cold crashing too. Time, temp, yeast strain, and raking ability are all something to consider as well.

Can you ramp up your fermentation temp towards the tail end...I have found that this helps as well.

And what is your definition of clear? Crystal, commercial level clear or clear to the point you can see your fingers on the other side of the pint glass. Lately, I could care less about clarity and strange enough, they are coming out clear. I focus on good brewing practices and let the chips land where they may

This is your first AG, I'd say let it ride with your initial brew and see what happens. Use gelatin and cold crash like usual. If its still not up to par, consider using a protein rest in the future. That usually gets it done. Unless its a hop bomb

 

[ajdelange]

I've used both and have no problem with them.
.

You may not think you do but you do. 5.2 cannot do what it says it is supposed to do because of the salts it uses. Even the guy that developed the product admits this. But the naive use it anyway and check on its effects with strips which read 0.3 or more pH low duping them into thinking it does work. I often say it works unless you own a pH meter.

 

[dbkdev]

Try using distilled or ro water instead of spring water, and check the forum post "water primer" under the brewing science section.

 

[dudius]

You may not think you do but you do. 5.2 cannot do what it says it is supposed to do because of the salts it uses. Even the guy that developed the product admits this. But the naive use it anyway and check on its effects with strips which read 0.3 or more pH low duping them into thinking it does work. I often say it works unless you own a pH meter.

With good brewing water, malt will lower the pH to somewhere between 5.2 and 5.5. Using the 5.2 stabilizer is helpful for removing carbonates and bicarbonates in hard water. As for pH strips, I guess it's brewer's choice. I've used strips and pH meters and I think for homebrewing pH strips are pretty handy. Definitely wouldn't call it a waste of money.

 

[mackenziemicro]

Thanks for all the advice, brewing tomorrow I've decided based on some of the advice above to not use the 5.2 just stick to my normal mashing Procedure, I'll use the strips to get an idea what's going on... See how the first batch goes... Read up on water chemistry and take it from there...


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[djt17]

Thanks for all the advice, brewing tomorrow I've decided based on some of the advice above to not use the 5.2 just stick to my normal mashing Procedure, I'll use the strips to get an idea what's going on... See how the first batch goes... Read up on water chemistry and take it from there...


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Good plan, since I started following AJ's advice in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/ my AG beers have improved considerably.

 

[ajdelange]

With good brewing water, malt will lower the pH to somewhere between 5.2 and 5.5.

Assuming you are basing your observations on measurements made with strips add about 0.3 to get a range of 5.5 to 5.8 which is approximately representative for primarily base malt grists.

Using the 5.2 stabilizer is helpful for removing carbonates and bicarbonates in hard water.

You have more confidence in the product than its creator who personally told me he would advise most brewers against using it.

If the water is very, very hard (see the charts in the back of the Palmer water book) the phosphate in 5.2 will react to form apatite releasing protons. But this is not how 5.2 is intended to work (it was developed for a particular brewery who had a very peculiar water chemistry) and the same reaction occurs with malt phosphates anyway. Under more normal circumstances the monobasic phosphate in 5.2 is acidic with respect to mash pH and as such does convert some bicarbonate to carbonic but at the recommended dose very little (see Fig. 23 in the Palmer book. If you want to use the phosphoric acid system to remove bicarbonate why settle for the small fraction of a mEq/mmol from the monobasic salt (5.2) when you can use the acid and get 1 mEq/mmol without having to accept the sodium (see Fig 23 again).

As for pH strips, I guess it's brewer's choice. I've used strips and pH meters and I think for homebrewing pH strips are pretty handy. Definitely wouldn't call it a waste of money.

But most would. Yes, it is up to the individual to decide but the reason those of us who post here do is to try to guide the naive/newbies away from foolish decisions.