Water Chem/Efficiency Questions

[MrEggSandwich]

Hi all....A couple of questions on water/efficiency. Due to my well water, which has a Ph of 7.7, I can't get my mash Ph (according to EZ Water Calc & Brewer's Friend) below 5.6 (that's with salt additions). My system is the Blichmann Breweasy, and my efficiency expectations are around 65-70%. My last batch was 53% efficiency, but I have achieved as high as 67%. Seems like I'm getting better efficiency with lower gravity beers. I'm working on my process as a whole, but my last brew, I waaay off on target OG.

My water profile is below, but I guess my ultimate question is: How do I lower my mash Ph if I can only get mash ph down to 5.6 with additions? Should I be doing 50/50 well/distilled or RO?

-How big an increase would I see if I was able to lower my mash Ph? Is this a water issue?

-What is water profile for distilled water? (7.0 Ph and zero minerals?). In other words- If I were to use 100% distilled to start- What do I enter in water calculators before adding salts?


pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 98
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.16
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.8 / 1.6
ppm
Sodium, Na 4
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 28
Magnesium, Mg 3
Total Hardness, CaCO3 83
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 82
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 67
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

 

[stpug]

That's really good brewing water. Aside from targeting some so4, cl, mg levels, a little acid (lactic, phos, acid malt, sauergut, etc) to adjust pH should be all you need. No need for distilled as you should be able to brew any style of beer with that water. I cannot imagine this water being a major issue for your efficiency variations - something else is at play here (crush is always #1 to look at).

pH of base water is not overly relevant to brewing water - alkalinity buffering capacity is much more important, as are the mineral levels (which yours are all very low - ideal to start with). Again, a little acid will go a long way with your water. You may need to switch out for adding a basic addition when brewing beers with significant roast malts as your pH may be driven too low (you'll never basic and acid at the same time).

EZ water is not a good tool to use. Bru'N Water is much better ( https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ ). That's where I would start if I were you. Read through the brewing water knowledge page, then start working your way through the spreadsheet. It's much easier than it appears, and the bulk of the time investment is purely upfront - successive uses of the spreadsheet are very quick.

Distilled is zero minerals and the pH doesn't matter since it has zero buffering capacity.

 

[Yooper]

My water profile is below, but I guess my ultimate question is: How do I lower my mash Ph if I can only get mash ph down to 5.6 with additions? Should I be doing 50/50 well/distilled or RO?

-How big an increase would I see if I was able to lower my mash Ph? Is this a water issue?

You can't really lower mash pH appreciably with brewing salts. Think of the brewing salts as you do table salt- for seasoning. Yes, you can increase your calcium for better yeast flocculation, and for flavor with the chloride and sulfate, but it doesn't drive the mash pH down all that much as you've found.

You really need some form of acid. Lactic acid or phosphoric acid are easiest and readily found.

As the pug mentioned, adding a bit of acid is all you need to hit a mash pH of 5.3-5.5.

As far as efficiency, the pH is not the problem. Yes, your beers flavor will improve and "pop" with a mash pH in the desired range, but the efficiency won't increase much, if at all. Efficiency is generally related to crush and/or lautering.

 

[Morrey]

Plus 1 on the suggestion from @stpug to invest time to learn Bru'N Water. It is a bit intimidating looking at first glance, but the rewards of sticking to it are worth the time investment. Learning to use the program actually causes users to think about what is going on and that alone is a huge learning factor. I watched several YouTube videos on the program and this helped me get started. I never brew without consulting Bru'N Water

 

[doug293cz]

... my efficiency expectations are around 65-70%. My last batch was 53% efficiency, but I have achieved as high as 67%. Seems like I'm getting better efficiency with lower gravity beers. ...

Lauter, mash and brewhouse efficiencies all drop off significantly as grain bills get larger. This is all due to the extra grain retaining more wort, and thus more sugar during the lautering. This is well understood, and can be predicted if you know some basic information about your system. If you want additional details about this, just ask.

Brew on

 

[mabrungard]

Great water, no need to dilute with RO. If you were trying to bring mashing pH down with mineral additions, you are now aware that it doesn't work well. You do need to learn to use acids in brewing. Use minerals to provide the ionic content you want in your brew, but use acid to move pH where you want it to be.

The other reason to use acid is that its needed to neutralize the slightly high alkalinity in your water so that it can be used for sparging.

While brewing water chemistry is not terribly difficult, its not EZ. With that said, Bru'n Water does look difficult to use...at first glance. But, if you READ THE INSTRUCTIONS, you will find that its not really that difficult at all.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Awesome stuff. Thanks so much everyone! Good to know I have great brewing water!

 

[MrEggSandwich]

How's this look for a NE IPA I am doing Saturday?:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=SH63LXF

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Here is recipe:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: 40th NE IPA
Author: kr

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Double IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 7 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 10 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.052
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 7.96%
IBU (tinseth): 89.53
SRM (morey): 6.26

FERMENTABLES:
19 lb - United Kingdom - Pearl (83.5%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (4.4%)
1 lb - Flaked Wheat (4.4%)
1 lb - Turbinado (4.4%)
12 oz - German - Acidulated Malt (3.3%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Apollo, Type: Pellet, AA: 18.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 17.92
2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.4, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 12.14
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.8, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 7.35
1 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.36
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.4, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F, IBU: 12.2
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.8, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F, IBU: 14.77
1 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F, IBU: 16.8
3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days
3 oz - El Dorado, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.6, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 16 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Whirfloc, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Omega Yeast Labs - DIPA Ale
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 78%
Flocculation: Medium-low
Optimum Temp: 65 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 67 F
Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and malty
Ca2: 100
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 125
SO4: 55
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:


Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2017-10-13 01:47 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2017-10-13 01:47 UTC

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Water profile:

Mash Ph- 5.29


Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 HCO
Actual 118.0 3.0 4.0 121.7 57.9 23.251