Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[Saunassa]

Well now, for the marzen I am brewing July 15th that has to be ready to pour September 9th I will use ice water bath to keep fermentation temps mid 60s first 3-4 days. Not fermenting under pressure either.

I will be using Novalager for 5.5 gal batch and if I can get another bucket of wort I will brew a second batch using either 34/70, Lutra, Kohln dry yeasts. I will be in the twin cities the day before and can stop at NB for a liquid too. Don't have to brew to style, just to what tastes good.

Never done lager styles so am out of my depth. Which would you pick?

 

[Shenanigans]

I plan on doing a partially warm fermented lager sometime next month.
I just need to convince my better half that one weekend in July will be better spent brewing beer than going for a hike or bike trip.
Here's hoping for some cold and/or wet weather.

I'll be brewing two beers but only have room for one fermenter in my Kegregator.
They will be a hoppy table beer of about 3% (Micro Hazy IPA) with Verdant and a Willy Wonka bock bier with WLP833 German bock.

For the Bock bier I will start at 14oC in the Kegregator for around a week, depending on how far it gets I will start ramping it up for the last 2 or 3 days to 18oC.
Then I will just take it out of the Kegregator and let it finish off at room temperature in the cellar (about 19oC) for about a week.
It will have an OG of 1.074 but hopefully it will be finsihed then as I can only brew on the weekends and won't have time the following weekend.

The reason for taking it out of the Kegregator is I want to soft crash the table beer before dry hopping it for 3 days.
At an OG of 1.033 it should be ready for crashing after a week.

 

[DuncB]

At an OG of 1.033 it will be probably fermented and D rested after 5 days with a big yeast pitch.

 

[Shenanigans]

At an OG of 1.033 it will be probably fermented and D rested after 5 days with a big yeast pitch.

23 liters are planned so 1 pack of Verdant IPA

 

[DuncB]

That verdant is a beast, use some yeast nutrient as well.

 

[bellhp]

I personally would never use harvested yeast that old again. I've lost too many beers this way. Either infection or underpitch or both. I only use yeast again when I can throw the wort directly on the yeastcake, latest one day after bottling.

Well Miraculix ... you were right to point that out ... My Vienna lager sux . I used repitched 34/70 on that one also . Got strong Ester , probably from stressed yeast ... 34/70 has been clean till that batch . Will be pitching fresh pack on next Lager.

​

 

[Miraculix]

Well Miraculix ... you were right to point that out ... My Vienna lager sux . I used repitched 34/70 on that one also . Got strong Ester , probably from stressed yeast ... 34/70 has been clean till that batch . Will be pitching fresh pack on next Lager.

​

Sorry for that. I also learned it the hard way....

 

[bellhp]

That's OK ... I'm here to learn and share ... even if it makes me look like a jackass sometimes. I'm still a fan of 34/70 ... not going to blame that one on the yeast , that was all me ( being cheap) I threw out several jars of yeast yesterday after brewing a brown ale.

 

[wdavis2003]

I'm still a fan of 34/70 ... not going to blame that one on the yeast

I have not brewed a good beer with34/70 yet. Fingers crossed on the Pilsner sitting in the fermenter pitched with 2 packs of it at 68 degrees and under pressure..

 

[Miraculix]

That's OK ... I'm here to learn and share ... even if it makes me look like a jackass sometimes. I'm still a fan of 34/70 ... not going to blame that one on the yeast , that was all me ( being cheap) I threw out several jars of yeast yesterday after brewing a brown ale.

I have not brewed a good beer with34/70 yet. Fingers crossed on the Pilsner sitting in the fermenter pitched with 2 packs of it at 68 degrees and under pressure..

3470 is definitely a very good and easy going yeast. It has proven it's worth countless times and whenever I want a very clean and crisp+hoppy lager profile and dry yeast, I go with that one. I am going to try diamond lager in the future though.... should be similar.

 

[wdavis2003]

3470 is definitely a very good and easy going yeast. It has proven it's worth countless times and whenever I want a very clean and crisp+hoppy lager profile and dry yeast, I go with that one. I am going to try diamond lager in the future though.... should be similar.

I always hear great things about it. That's why it's frustrating I keep missing the mark. This time, I forgot the yeast nutrient and whirlfloc towards the end of the boil. Hopefully, that won't hurt it. I did give it plenty of O2 though

 

[sweetcell]

This time, I forgot the yeast nutrient and whirlfloc towards the end of the boil. Hopefully, that won't hurt it. I did give it plenty of O2 though

dry yeast has all the nutrients it needs, so skipping the added nutes shouldn't be an issue. lots of O2 should also help in this regard. as for no whirlfloc, at worse you'll have to wait a bit longer for it to clear during lagering.

 

[wdavis2003]

dry yeast has all the nutrients it needs, so skipping the added nutes shouldn't be an issue. lots of O2 should also help in this regard. as for no whirlfloc, at worse you'll have to wait a bit longer for it to clear during lagering.

That's good to know. It did finish fermenting in about 2.5 days. Just waiting to taste it until it's had a couple more days to cold crash

 

[z-bob]

I've skimmed thru the thread, but it's such a big thread I probably missed it; what do y'all think of Diamond lager yeast fermented at about 68 to 70°F? Not under pressure. I've only done one lager, using 34/70 pitched warm but fermented in the low 60s and it finished at about 58°. That beer turned out awesome. I still have one packet of 34/70, but I just bought some packs of Diamond on sale and want to use at least one before it gets old My basement is in the low 70s now, but I could keep the beer a little cooler than that using ice bottles.

 

[wepeeler]

I have not brewed a good beer with34/70 yet. Fingers crossed on the Pilsner sitting in the fermenter pitched with 2 packs of it at 68 degrees and under pressure..

You and I might be the only brewers on the planet that can't get 34/70 to work lol. I bought another 2 packs recently to give it another go. It's never clean and crisp for me. I have people in my brew club that swear by it. Not to mention, the rest of the world...

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Who remembers "Little Kings" cream ale? It used the BUD yeast (I think) fermented at higher temps.
We used to take tons of those small green bottles to the beach and get snackerd.

 

[wdavis2003]

You and I might be the only brewers on the planet that can't get 34/70 to work lol. I bought another 2 packs recently to give it another go. It's never clean and crisp for me. I have people in my brew club that swear by it. Not to mention, the rest of the world...

It always ferments out very fast and low for me but always has an off flavor that is a byproduct of an unhealthy fermentation. No matter what I've tried to do to make it a healthy fermentation, seems to always fail. Now, I've only fermented with it 3 or 4 times. Not like I'm on round 20 or anything..

However, I hope to be out of that exclusive club soon. I'll be kegging the Pils this week. I'll report back after the beer is ready for consumption.

 

[beervoid]

It always ferments out very fast and low for me but always has an off flavor that is a byproduct of an unhealthy fermentation. No matter what I've tried to do to make it a healthy fermentation, seems to always fail. Now, I've only fermented with it 3 or 4 times. Not like I'm on round 20 or anything..

However, I hope to be out of that exclusive club soon. I'll be kegging the Pils this week. I'll report back after the beer is ready for consumption.

could you describe the "off flavor" you are getting?

 

[wdavis2003]

It's acetaldehyde in my opinion. Like a fruity, apple ester and flavor that's unpleasant but not undrinkable. One time it was like vinegar. Acetic acid I believe

 

[beervoid]

It's acetaldehyde in my opinion. Like a fruity, apple ester and flavor that's unpleasant but not undrinkable. One time it was like vinegar. Acetic acid I believe

I got a bit of that but only when its not cleared up, the clearer the beer became the better the flavor

 

[balrog]

I only tried it once, fermented at 60F, major peach/white grape thing. Been too "busy" to give it another chance.
Did S189, big starter (2.0 million per ml per degP), at 68 and got lots of sulfur that never went away (unless I stirred ea pint with a pc of copper tubing).

 

[sweetcell]

I've skimmed thru the thread, but it's such a big thread I probably missed it; what do y'all think of Diamond lager yeast fermented at about 68 to 70°F? Not under pressure. I've only done one lager, using 34/70 pitched warm but fermented in the low 60s and it finished at about 58°. That beer turned out awesome. I still have one packet of 34/70, but I just bought some packs of Diamond on sale and want to use at least one before it gets old My basement is in the low 70s now, but I could keep the beer a little cooler than that using ice bottles.

i haven't used Diamond myself, but others have reported great success. in fact, my very informal assessment of this thread is that Diamond is the second-most popular yeast for WFL, after 34/70.

 

[Saunassa]

Well only 4 people showed up for the free Marzen wort. The brewer did a step mash even vs just straight infusion. I split mine into two 5.5 gallons batches. I dry pitched 2 packs Novalager in one and two packs 34/70 dry pitch in other (yeast choice after all your feedback) after shaking the piss out of the fermenters when half full.
Man did they take off with the tilt showing first measurable gravity point drop in 6 and 8 hours. Ripped through it and down to 1.012 within 48 hours. Fermenting at 63f, cool closet and ice bottle water bath. Krausen is starting to fall, I have let it free rise to 65f and the tilts which are really gooped up, tech term, show it at 1.005.
Now to wait for them to settle out.

 

[Saunassa]

Video 48 hours from pitch. Always amazes me how different they look while yeast is working.

 

[Saunassa]

New to lagers, is it the same as ales and I need to wait a few weeks before xfer to keg and lager in fridge?

 

[wdavis2003]

New to lagers, is it the same as ales and I need to wait a few weeks before xfer to keg and lager in fridge?

I do not think it's necessary to leave in the fermenter for 'a few weeks' before transferring but I also do not think it will hurt anything. Personally, I'd leave at 65 for another 4 to 5 days to let the yeast finish what they need to finish and cold crash for another 3 or 4 days before kegging. Actually, that's what I'm in the process of right now as my Bock fermented with 34/70 reach FG in less than 24 hours.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Then cold condition for a month or 2. To me that’s the biggest difference in lager and ale. Lagers really take more time to peak. I usually make a lager and when I pull the last few pints, wish I had the full batch. The lager from May is really awesome right now.

 

[Saunassa]

I do not think it's necessary to leave in the fermenter for 'a few weeks' before transferring but I also do not think it will hurt anything. Personally, I'd leave at 65 for another 4 to 5 days to let the yeast finish what they need to finish and cold crash for another 3 or 4 days before kegging. Actually, that's what I'm in the process of right now as my Bock fermented with 34/70 reach FG in less than 24 hours.

Most of my ales will sit in the fermenter for 3 weeks and get nice and clear. These yeasts are different animals so wanted to check.
I have plenty of beer in the pipeline, this is to be drank at beer fest in Sept so Lagering is fine by me.

 

[sweetcell]

Well only 4 people showed up for the free Marzen wort.

that's a shame... who doesn't want good and FREE wort??

after shaking the piss out of the fermenters when half full.

FYI aeration isn't needed when using dry yeast for the first time. certainly won't hurt, either. they have all the sterols they'll need. any subsequent repitching will need aeration.

Now to wait for them to settle out.

you can use gelatin to speed up clarification. the stuff works wonders if you don't have time (or patience )

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Most of my ales will sit in the fermenter for 3 weeks and get nice and clear. These yeasts are different animals so wanted to check.
I have plenty of beer in the pipeline, this is to be drank at beer fest in Sept so Lagering is fine by me.

I would use whatever schedule you like for ales. Given that you pitched 2 packs at are fermenting at ale temps, I suspect they will be at FG in the first week. I would have been fine pitching 1 pack into each batch if fermented at 63F.

 

[Saunassa]

@CascadesBrewer dang, they always say to pitch more then you would for ales, often double. I never considered the fact I was fermenting at 63 versus low 50s. No wonder it took off so fast and fermented down so quickly. That would have saved me quite a few bucks per batch.
I learned something new today in regards to WF lagers.

 

[Shenanigans]

I plan on doing a partially warm fermented lager sometime next month.
I just need to convince my better half that one weekend in July will be better spent brewing beer than going for a hike or bike trip.
Here's hoping for some cold and/or wet weather.

I'll be brewing two beers but only have room for one fermenter in my Kegregator.
They will be a hoppy table beer of about 3% (Micro Hazy IPA) with Verdant and a Willy Wonka bock bier with WLP833 German bock.

For the Bock bier I will start at 14oC in the Kegregator for around a week, depending on how far it gets I will start ramping it up for the last 2 or 3 days to 18oC.
Then I will just take it out of the Kegregator and let it finish off at room temperature in the cellar (about 19oC) for about a week.
It will have an OG of 1.074 but hopefully it will be finsihed then as I can only brew on the weekends and won't have time the following weekend.

The reason for taking it out of the Kegregator is I want to soft crash the table beer before dry hopping it for 3 days.
At an OG of 1.033 it should be ready for crashing after a week.

So I did this brew last weekend.
I got 5 gallons of bockbier with an OG of 1.071 currently fermenting at 15oC since Sunday night.
I'm going to take a sample tomorrow to see how far it is and then decide if I start increasing the temperature or not.

 

[TBA]

I dry pitched 2 packs Novalager in one and two packs 34/70 dry pitch in other (yeast choice after all your feedback)

Please post tasting results! I just got Nova Lager and am coming up with a plan for it.

 

[Shenanigans]

So I did this brew last weekend.
I got 5 gallons of bockbier with an OG of 1.071 currently fermenting at 15oC since Sunday night.
I'm going to take a sample tomorrow to see how far it is and then decide if I start increasing the temperature or not.

Just measured it and it's already at 1.023 after 4 days.
I'll ramp er up by 1 degree a day until Sunday then it will be the same temperature as my basement so I can take it out of the fridge to make room to soft crash an IPA. I plan on bottling it the weekend after this.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’m running low on my WF Helles lager. S-23 came out my favorite. S-189 was just behind, however it was my favorite while fresh. 34/70 gives me nothing. I could see that in a Pilsner or something hoppy. Split a pound of Saaz early and late in 20g batch. Doesn’t seem like 25ibu. I will be making more of this when the temps get right. So easy and really fantastic.

 

[Protos]

You and I might be the only brewers on the planet that can't get 34/70 to work lol.

And also me. Just hate it. Bland and acidic.
My only warm Lager experiment was done out of hope that 34/70 would work differently at a higher temperature. It didn't.

 

[Miraculix]

And also me. Just hate it. Bland and acidic.
My only warm Lager experiment was done out of hope that 34/70 would work differently at a higher temperature. It didn't.

Weird. For me or was always really clean and lagery. No matter which temperature it fermented at.

 

[Protos]

Weird indeed. Everyone on the planet (aside of me and those two gents above) swears by 34/70. To me, just tart and flat. Same about Diamond. MJ yeasts rarely find their direct matches in Fermentis line, but here I have little doubt both are packed from the same sack.

What's really clean and lagery to me, is M76, followed by S-189. Never tried fermenting them warm though as I'm fully satisfied with their cold-fermentation performance. When I have no huge suprlus of Lagers sometime in the future like I'm having now, I'll try fermenting them warm, I like the idea. S-189 looks particularly promising in this regard.

 

[Miraculix]

Weird indeed. Everyone on the planet (aside of me and those two gents above) swears by 34/70. To me, just tart and flat. Same about Diamond. MJ yeasts rarely find their direct matches in Fermentis line, but here I have little doubt both are packed from the same sack.

What's really clean and lagery to me, is M76, followed by S-189. Never tried fermenting them warm though as I'm fully satisfied with their cold-fermentation performance. When I have no huge suprlus of Lagers sometime in the future like I'm having now, I'll try fermenting them warm, I like the idea. S-189 looks particularly promising in this regard.

There should be plenty of information on S-189 here in this thread. I do not remember what the general consesus was. But as the generel consensus about 3470 does not really apply to your taste buds, checking for yourself might be the only way to find out.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I really like S-189, also like S-23. 34/70 doesn’t give me much. Every time I use it I get nothing. That’s ok for Pils where you have hops. Current is my first WF lager. Pitched mid 50’s and ambient fermented in low 60’s. Climbed to 68-70 after 5 days. Really surprised me how good it is.