Want to brew an ancient Mesopotamian ale

[JimBraum]

Twice-baked may not be for roasting and darkening. The first baking cause it to rise and fixes the taste. The second baking dries it out for longer term storage. Just like zwieback cookies for teething babies.

Yes, this is the current mainstream theory, but doesn't quite match the Sumerian stored food lists:
http://sidurisadvice.com/Damerow.html
Damerow's research is actually one of the major pieces of evidence in support of the burnt bappir hypothesis...

 

[JimBraum]

I remember reading about early German beers during the Roman conquests. They used,as the egyptians did at one point,partly baked barley loaves that were added to water & heated with hot stones. The egyptians pressed the cakes into water in jars. but the partly baked loaves were fermented into beer. I remember the wine drinking Romans describing it as "pig swallow". So it sounds to me like the loaves were only partly baked to use the leavening agent to ferment the wort.
I'm not sure what to think of all that,since it's now believed that beer pre-dated bread by some 3,000 years?...

Interesting points. The fact that beer pre-dated bread by thousands of years would only further support the burnt bappir hypothesis, right? It would suggest that the addition of burnt bread was more likely to improve the taste of overly sweet beer that could already be made using semi-natural fermentation, perhaps with wild yeast on grapes/raisins...

 

[JimBraum]

This experiment reminds me of a story a college professor told in my Middle English Lit class several years ago, about an Old English professor of his antagonizing his conservative Christian, "drinking is a sin" beliefs by pressuring him to drink homebrewed mead brewed with a recipe from the Dark Ages.

I'm far from certain that you'll end up with a decent beer, but I'm loving this ancient history/literature nerd brewing project. The nerd comment is meant in a good way.

Ha, I take nerd to be the highest compliment

I expect to be able to at least get a drinkable beer,
I hope to be able to get a great beer,
I dream of one day re-creating the original divine worshiped beer...

 

[JimBraum]

Hmm, I've been drinking a bit so I could be completely off base. But, isn't the closest thing to the wild brewing process in modern day actually a German lambic? I mean in terms of the probably biological components. If you assume a fermenting yeast, lacto, and brett then you probably wouldn't have something that was particularly sweet. Brett tends to consume long chain sugars after all. The hymn of Nikasi makes me wonder a bit about that too. Some of the funky aroma's produced by brett could be described as "wet dog".

Interesting project. I will be following this thread.

Great point, I will need to do more research into the German lambic beers... hopefully my drive for authenticity will not force me to use Brett!

 

[Leadgolem]

Great point, I will need to do more research into the German lambic beers... hopefully my drive for authenticity will not force me to use Brett!

I was talking about this with my Mother a couple of days ago. She's interested in ancient history, specifically Egyptian but also Sumer and a few other things. Both as it relates biblically, and as straight historical fact.

The Egyptian beer brewing process included first baking the bread, eating it, and then burning the leftovers and adding them to the beer. That seems very similar to what you have been hypothesizing. In addition, the beer making process is considered to be a probable cultural import to Egypt.

Biblically speaking, Abraham is supposed to be from Ur. Ur is how the bible refers to the area that we call now call Sumeria. That would indicate that at least some emigration occured, and the origin of the Egyptian brewing process could very well have been Sumer.

That is what she told me. I haven't verified any of it, but if it's accurate, I believe it would lend a lot of weight to your burned bread theory.

EDIT: I should probably mention that she is slightly senile. So, it would be a good idea to fact check that before doing anything with it.

 

[JimBraum]

@Leadgolem, that would be amazing if true and would strongly support the burnt bappir hypothesis. Would it be possible to ask your mother where she learnt this from? Perhaps it is just age, which will get the better of all of us in the end, but there's a chance that it's real, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I can also respect that it may well be a real phenomenon she is referring to, but can't remember the source, in which case I will have to dust off my detective hat and start digging through the under-belly of esoteric Egyptian brewing literature...

 

[Devilsnight]

I'm not sure what to think of all that,since it's now believed that beer pre-dated bread by some 3,000 years?...

beer before bread, sounds pretty hard to believe. An interesting thought though.

So is it your family taste testing this?? lol, I need a family like this Interesting topic, I'm in for the resaults, even the final recipe. keep up the good work!

 

[unionrdr]

The current thinking is that they stumbled onto fermenting the grain water before trying the same basic thing with grain flour made into a dough & raised/baked. One led to the other allegedly.

 

[Leadgolem]

@Leadgolem, that would be amazing if true and would strongly support the burnt bappir hypothesis. Would it be possible to ask your mother where she learnt this from? Perhaps it is just age, which will get the better of all of us in the end, but there's a chance that it's real, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I can also respect that it may well be a real phenomenon she is referring to, but can't remember the source, in which case I will have to dust off my detective hat and start digging through the under-belly of esoteric Egyptian brewing literature...

I'll ask her of course.

I did some cursory looking last night, but I wasn't able to confirm anything about Egyptian brewing using burned bread. That doesn't mean she's wrong, just that I couldn't find it in twenty minutes.

 

[Leadgolem]

@Leadgolem, that would be amazing if true and would strongly support the burnt bappir hypothesis. Would it be possible to ask your mother where she learnt this from? Perhaps it is just age, which will get the better of all of us in the end, but there's a chance that it's real, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I can also respect that it may well be a real phenomenon she is referring to, but can't remember the source, in which case I will have to dust off my detective hat and start digging through the under-belly of esoteric Egyptian brewing literature...

Ok, so she said it was on a tv program about a dig for the workers village for the valley of the kings. So, probably a dig in Deir el-Medina. She thought it was either history channel, or History 2. Specifically, the section of the dig that was actually outside of the town with the bakery and brewery.

EDIT: She expounded a bit and said that they found burn residue in the bottom of some large clay vessels. When analyzed the residue turned out to be leftover burned bread.

 

[JimBraum]

Ok, so she said it was on a tv program about a dig for the workers village for the valley of the kings. So, probably a dig in Deir el-Medina. She thought it was either history channel, or History 2. Specifically, the section of the dig that was actually outside of the town with the bakery and brewery.

EDIT: She expounded a bit and said that they found burn residue in the bottom of some large clay vessels. When analyzed the residue turned out to be leftover burned bread.

Thanks for asking. A TV show will be difficult to research online, but I'll give it a shot!

 

[JimBraum]

beer before bread, sounds pretty hard to believe. An interesting thought though.

So is it your family taste testing this?? lol, I need a family like this Interesting topic, I'm in for the resaults, even the final recipe. keep up the good work!

Yeah, my wife, brother and his wife have all been roped in to help us figure out if these theories hold water... err... hold beer?

 

[Leadgolem]

Thanks for asking. A TV show will be difficult to research online, but I'll give it a shot!

True, but I don't think there have been that many digs involving the bakery/brewery attached to Deir El Medina. It may be easier to see if you can find what's been published from the digs there. It's really a matter of how much trouble you're willing to go to though.

 

[BeerGrylls]

Has anyone watched this? A lot of it sounds very unscientific and circumstantial, however there may be some useful historical elements there:

How Beer saved the World [HD]

 

[jonnyp1980]

I would love to do a video review if you brew this.